All you people that said MotB is good can go fuck yourselves

[Freelance Henchman]

I could live with (and actually preferred) the inability to destroy the Wall because the god of the plane where it stands does not allow it. An option to at least "die trying" would have been appreciated, not just Kelemvor saying "no you can't" as its done in the game, but I think it would have looked totally cheesy if you could do it.

I think it made the setting appear more "real": that there is still more room at the top, that it's not that easy to topple the fundamental order of the planes even for a being (the Knight Captain) that has been through so much already and has acquired powers that can actually kill gods (as shown in the evil ending).

If you could have done *anything* at all, it would cheapen the setting and the game itself. Limits are important for believability, I always felt.

 

[Serious_Business]

I don't think the end was that well done either, not for the same reasons. If they wanted to make the inhability of the player to destroy the wall as the main litterary twist in the end - something that's supposed to be like the dramatic end of a play - then I don't know.

I mean beside 'lul dungeons and dragons this guy is level 502332 and has magic planar powers' and 'this would be agaisnt canon because you know dungeons and dragons and fairies and midgets and just cocksucking'. I don't think those considerations have anything to do with good writing, even if you want it to be coherent with the setting (which is absolutely atrocious and you have to remove as much as possible from the setting because that shit is bad).

So if they wanted to make it effective they really should have given you the option to try - and fail. Because it didn't feel like they wanted to bring up the player to this situation and then tell him 'you can't change the universe' or something like that, it only felt like 'well, huh, you can't do it, lol'. The message of the story wasn't anything like 'you can't change the universe' - there was this theme of piety and how it should affect someone, but I don't think they wanted to put emphasis on the fact that lack of piety should be punished and there's no other way. There was just no artisitc current behind that story.

Just, you know, you're the player and we'll make you do cool stuff, we just get high and make shit up, which is cool I think, at least it's not the usual shit, but it's not a great story with profound writing. I don't mind, I mean, this is a video game.

 

[Black]

Not being able to destroy the wall was disappointing.
Not being able to kill Kelemvor with fully controlled power of hunger was disappointing.

Judging the whole game by the last 2 minutes is fucking retarded and you are butthurt.

 

[Raapys]

If you could have done *anything* at all, it would cheapen the setting and the game itself. Limits are important for believability, I always felt.

But couldn't it be argued that the whole game universe is built such that 'commoners' can become extraordinarily powerful, and even eventually assume the mantle of a God themselves?

 

[MetalCraze]

I bet if Obsidian would've actually given the option to fight Kelemvor and fail the same people would've cried right now about how the game sucks because THERE IS NO RESOLUSHUN! as the situation would've led to the immediate game over.

 

[Raapys]

I bet if Obsidian would've actually given the option to fight Kelemvor and fail the same people would've cried right now about how the game sucks because THERE IS NO RESOLUSHUN! as the situation would've led to the immediate game over.

It wouldn't have been an actual battle, it would have been an ending movie showing the player's defeat.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I don't think the end was that well done either, not for the same reasons. If they wanted to make the inhability of the player to destroy the wall as the main litterary twist in the end - something that's supposed to be like the dramatic end of a play - then I don't know.

I mean beside 'lul dungeons and dragons this guy is level 502332 and has magic planar powers' and 'this would be agaisnt canon because you know dungeons and dragons and fairies and midgets and just cocksucking'. I don't think those considerations have anything to do with good writing, even if you want it to be coherent with the setting (which is absolutely atrocious and you have to remove as much as possible from the setting because that shit is bad).

So if they wanted to make it effective they really should have given you the option to try - and fail. Because it didn't feel like they wanted to bring up the player to this situation and then tell him 'you can't change the universe' or something like that, it only felt like 'well, huh, you can't do it, lol'. The message of the story wasn't anything like 'you can't change the universe' - there was this theme of piety and how it should affect someone, but I don't think they wanted to put emphasis on the fact that lack of piety should be punished and there's no other way. There was just no artisitc current behind that story.

Just, you know, you're the player and we'll make you do cool stuff, we just get high and make shit up, which is cool I think, at least it's not the usual shit, but it's not a great story with profound writing. I don't mind, I mean, this is a video game.

D&D philosophy is serious business.

 

[Zomg]

I bet if Obsidian would've actually given the option to fight Kelemvor and fail the same people would've cried right now about how the game sucks because THERE IS NO RESOLUSHUN! as the situation would've led to the immediate game over.

I think that would've been kinda cool, actually, if it were a genuinely futile choice. It's romantic to die for the revolution and it would have been cool to have all the NPCs other than Kaetlyn and completeled-romance characters be all, "I got wenches to poke/books to read/ghost salmon to eat bro, bye".

I guess I can commiserate with the original poster, but I picked the option to betray Kaelyn at the wall, leading to a dramatically appropriate ending.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

If you could have done *anything* at all, it would cheapen the setting and the game itself. Limits are important for believability, I always felt.

But couldn't it be argued that the whole game universe is built such that 'commoners' can become extraordinarily powerful, and even eventually assume the mantle of a God themselves?

I suppose it is, it's a RPG setting world after all. But the evil ending actually does have the PC becoming something godlike (avoiding spoilers), though still not powerful enough to destroy the Wall. I suppose the designers had IP reasons too why they couldn't have the Wall-Destroying Ending maybe.

 

[made]

I bet if Obsidian would've actually given the option to fight Kelemvor and fail the same people would've cried right now about how the game sucks because THERE IS NO RESOLUSHUN! as the situation would've led to the immediate game over.

It wouldn't have had to be an actual fight. Let the PC attempt to devour Kelemvor only to be detroyed from within, or at least give some dialogue options to try and reason with him and be forced to realize the futility of the whole plan. Anything that shows the PC actually cared about the whole wall business.

As it is now, it appears the PC forgot or doesn't care about the wall and is content just walking away and living with Safiya in some backwater village or whatever, no matter the promises made to Kaelyn over the course of the game.

I suppose the designers had IP reasons too why they couldn't have the Wall-Destroying Ending maybe.

I feel Obsidian could do great things if they weren't doomed to make D&D games/Bioware sequels for all eternity.

 

[MetalCraze]

ermm but you talk with Kelemvor about the wall where he forces you to realize that your plan is futile. I remember he was persuading me not to do this.

 

[Lesifoere]

I suppose the designers had IP reasons too why they couldn't have the Wall-Destroying Ending maybe.

I feel Obsidian could do great things if they weren't doomed to make D&D games/Bioware sequels for all eternity.

Well... Alpha Protocol and Aliens RPG? Not that the former sounds very promising.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

Hm... I'm sort of wondering now if using the Hunger (a divinely created affliction) against the God of the Dead would have been futile anyway and could not possibly work, since it is in a way a manifestation of his own power (or at least, it's on loan from the former death god who actually made it), just like the Wall is, which he would be able to deny (but then why not just snuff it out himself in the first place?). Or something.

 

[sportforredneck]

I suppose the designers had IP reasons too why they couldn't have the Wall-Destroying Ending maybe.

I feel Obsidian could do great things if they weren't doomed to make D&D games/Bioware sequels for all eternity.

Well... Alpha Protocol and Aliens RPG? Not that the former sounds very promising.

Alpha Protocol sounds pretty bitchin. I mean it has "oh noes! the action" but who cares, they're trying to do things the way that RPGs are supposed to be done. Like actually having choices and consequences.

 

[Lesifoere]

Oh, no, I'm not bothered about the action aspects (though they don't enthuse me any). It's more the whole "super spy" thing that I'm not fond of, but then I've never found any appeal in Bonds/Bourne/whatever types.

 

[made]

ermm but you talk with Kelemvor about the wall where he forces you to realize that your plan is futile. I remember he was persuading me not to do this.

Yeah, right. I had only replayed the final conversation before posting, but he does touch on the wall previously with like two lines before the focus inadvertably shifts to the spirit eater curse. Better than nothing, I guess.

 

[OSK]

This is some shitty troll, right? I mean, I can't understand how a several hour game can be completely ruined by the last few minutes because you didn't get the ending you wanted.

Make sure no one recommends him Fallout 1. He might get pissed that he can't live happily ever after as a returning hero to Vault 15.

 

[toroid]

thanks for the spoiler warnings douchebags

 

[janjetina]

Re: All you people that said MotB is good can go fuck yourse

(and also what was up with Kaelyn's ending?).

Spoiler

My good character had enough sense to realise that a demilich potentially ascending to godhood wouldn't be wise, so he arranged a little "accident" with one of the tomes, enough to provoke Rammaq to attack and send him packing on the way to True Death. Kaelyn still leads a battle against the Wall, using guerrila tactics and tearing from the wall one soul at a time. If you let Rammaq live, Kaelyn will eventually die. Choices and consequences.

 

[Mantiis]

This is some shitty troll, right? I mean, I can't understand how a several hour game can be completely ruined by the last few minutes because you didn't get the ending you wanted.

I wrote in my original post that I was enjoying the game - a great deal in fact. The way the destruction of the wall was glossed over then forgotten when it was such a major part of who my character was was incredibly dissapointing. The original post was written straight after I finished the game hence all the profanity and the drama queening.

Make sure no one recommends him Fallout 1. He might get pissed that he can't live happily ever after as a returning hero to Vault 15.

Its got nothing to do with happily ever after (I was more than happy to get bitch slapped in planscape for example) its got to do with me wanting to do something that the game was suggesting I could do. Why else were the generals there? To kill some shitty characters that my character could take alone? Not only that my character didn't believe in any god so the idea of being stuck in a wall for all eternity didn't really appeal to me.

I dont think attempting to destroy the wall was so far out of the realm of possibility considering the power of the soul eater within you - you did kill a god in act 2 after all (yes he was a shadow of his former self...). Being killed for attempting to destroy the wall I think I would be ok with but for it to end like that without being able to say: 'One more thing: now that I got my soul back can we talk about the wall?' was incredibly frustrating.

 

[Helton]

I agree with OP. First, how did no one think of that? We had plenty of incredibly powerful cats and no one thought "hey, maybe it's impossible"? Stupid. Second, Kaelyn keeps on fighting the good fight. Why couldn't I?

 

[Erebus]

I wasn't disappointed that I couldn't tear down the Wall. It is after all quite logical : even a 30th-level character with special powers stands no chance against a Greater God on his home turf. And it gives a bittersweet, original ending.

What really disappointed me was that I just wasn't allowed to join Kaelyn in her continuing crusade against the Wall. In essence, the game forced me to be a selfish bastard who just didn't care about the other souls left in there. The epilogue even sent me back to the boring-as-&#@% places I had to endure in NWN2 OC ! I don't care about Neverwinter ! I have absolutely no desire to be a Knight-Captain again ! How could the makers of the game not even realize that we might want to follow the same path as Kaelyn (no, not the one where she is betrayed by Rammaq and never speaks again, the other one) ?

 

[Shannow]

Not being able to win is not a reason not to fight. The ending was disappointing. Not because I couldn't be the hero that saves the day but because the plot derailed like a codex thread. And the whole "Kelemvor can kill you all with a thought" (or not, see Warden's post) just makes the whole attack retarded in the first place. He could have ended it all when you appeared at the gates.
"Hey, I let a ragtag bunch of creatures that believe they are powerful kill many of my worshippers and minions and cause a general disturbance in my realm just so we can all be friends in the end."

 

[Kaiserin]

I don't think those considerations have anything to do with good writing, even if you want it to be coherent with the setting (which is absolutely atrocious and you have to remove as much as possible from the setting because that shit is bad).

Then the whole plot is bad, as it's very consistent with the FR setting.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I'm terribly sorry for this.

edit: btw, I agree that they should have allowed you to try and do it. It would have worked well with characters with int below 10.