A problem with RPGs: RPG developers are not well-read in myth and fantasy/sci-fi literature

[mediocrepoet]

Most of those I've seen should apply, such as: warriors, archers, bards, mages, beast masters, rouges, maybe even some kind of monks. I'd likely exclude heavily armored soldiers.

so nothing specific. nothing "african". just some guy in blackface.

Shaman / Witch doctor.

 

[0sacred]

the iconic shamans in anthropology are those of Siberia. Damn wypeepo stealing everything.

 

[Iucounu]

I think Imaro would make an amazing rpg.

The book sounds interesting, is it any good?

And the best part? No white people!

Would even an indie developer dare doing that? Players may be thought to need a protagonist more like themselves (even a black American might do in a pinch), while gaming journalist would need white villains to fit their preconcieved notions, or risk ending up confused and angry.

I cannot believe that I now consider “no white people in the setting” a selling point.

Nowadays I consider "no people in the setting" a selling point...

 

[NecroLord]

Most of those I've seen should apply, such as: warriors, archers, bards, mages, beast masters, rouges, maybe even some kind of monks. I'd likely exclude heavily armored soldiers.

so nothing specific. nothing "african". just some guy in blackface.

Again, it all depends on how specific you want to be --is a European bard just a West African griot in whiteface, or are both specific for their respective culture? All my RPG classes would be uniquelly African versions of course, just like a ninja is a uniquelly Japanese covert agent (and not say a Persian one).

Or do you mean an African RPG class that has not even a remote equivalent anywhere else in the world? Then I might have to invent it, since it likely doesn't exist in the (mostly Western and Asian) RPG tradition. But what could such a class possibly be, if the more broad classes like Warrior, Magician etc are already taken? And what gives European and Asian RPGs a monopoly on those broader classes in the first place?

A Bard is a storyteller, dude.
D&D further expanded its role to that of a jack of all trades, a real drifting adventurer.
What would an African Bard do? Sing Kumbaya while peacefully protesting with his fellow kin?

 

[rpgmakerhack]

West African Leopard Society

Yeah, years back, I read about French peacekeepers (in maybe Northern Nigeria?) refusing to leave their base at night for fear of shapeshifting hyena tribesman. Some of the soldiers even claimed to have seen them actually transform. So there's an indigenous African lycanthrope with its own interesting lore.

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

 

[Iucounu]

Most of those I've seen should apply, such as: warriors, archers, bards, mages, beast masters, rouges, maybe even some kind of monks. I'd likely exclude heavily armored soldiers.

so nothing specific. nothing "african". just some guy in blackface.

Again, it all depends on how specific you want to be --is a European bard just a West African griot in whiteface, or are both specific for their respective culture? All my RPG classes would be uniquelly African versions of course, just like a ninja is a uniquelly Japanese covert agent (and not say a Persian one).

Or do you mean an African RPG class that has not even a remote equivalent anywhere else in the world? Then I might have to invent it, since it likely doesn't exist in the (mostly Western and Asian) RPG tradition. But what could such a class possibly be, if the more broad classes like Warrior, Magician etc are already taken? And what gives European and Asian RPGs a monopoly on those broader classes in the first place?

A Bard is a storyteller, dude.

In real life, yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griot

"A griot ... is a West African historian, storyteller, praise singer, poet, and/or musician.

The griot is a repository of oral tradition and is often seen as a leader due to their position as an advisor to members of the royal family. As a result of the former of these two functions, they are sometimes called bards. They also act as mediators in disputes."

D&D further expanded its role to that of a jack of all trades, a real drifting adventurer.
What would an African Bard do? Sing Kumbaya while peacefully protesting with his fellow kin?

In fantasy an African bard can of course do any of those things as well...

 

[NecroLord]

West African Leopard Society

Yeah, years back, I read about French peacekeepers (in maybe Northern Nigeria?) refusing to leave their base at night for fear of shapeshifting hyena tribesman. Some of the soldiers even claimed to have seen them actually transform. So there's an indigenous African lycanthrope with its own interesting lore.

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

Imagine allowing some backwards primitive shit belief and folklore to affect your judgement and ability to carry out your duty. No wonder frenchies lost all their colonies and are now colonized themselves by their former subjects...

 

[rpgmakerhack]

Imagine allowing some backwards primitive shit belief and folklore to affect your judgement and ability to carry out your duty. No wonder frenchies lost all their colonies and are now colonized themselves by their former subjects...

Hey, I'll believe in almost anything: Bigfoot, Nessie, benevolent billionaires, the tooth fairy.

 

[0sacred]

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

Kang/Pharao class

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Since the Japanese and anime was mentioned, anybody have any fair idea about the level of the Japanese people that are well read in more classic literature and their own history and religion (or western even)? What are their influences, what drives their ideas? I'm not really asking about the anime stuff, but the more classical stuff and non-anime styles of fiction. Just interested since their stuff is much less pozzed nowadays in comparison. Like I heard that one of the main devs of From Software was a big D&D fan if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Also, what is the key to their sometimes weird outlandish stuff in fiction, from a western point of view?

Japan has the problem of being written by people who have not read any of the classics just as much as the west, possibly even worse than us. It's just harder for us to tell because we generally don't know what those classics are. It just seems to be in better shape because a barely human caricature with boobs is leagues better than the abominations against god and man we have in the west.

 

[NecroLord]

Since the Japanese and anime was mentioned, anybody have any fair idea about the level of the Japanese people that are well read in more classic literature and their own history and religion (or western even)? What are their influences, what drives their ideas? I'm not really asking about the anime stuff, but the more classical stuff and non-anime styles of fiction. Just interested since their stuff is much less pozzed nowadays in comparison. Like I heard that one of the main devs of From Software was a big D&D fan if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Also, what is the key to their sometimes weird outlandish stuff in fiction, from a western point of view?

Japan has the problem of being written by people who have not read any of the classics just as much as the west, possibly even worse than us. It's just harder for us to tell because we generally don't know what those classics are. It just seems to be in better shape because a barely human caricature with boobs is leagues better than the abominations against god and man we have in the west.

Yeah, they literally put more wypipo in their games than the West does.

 

[Tyranicon]

Japanese gamedev also has the benefit of the insane work ethic they still have. Pride in your work and perfectionism goes a long way when your competitors are idiots who spend most of their office hours glued to twitter or whatever the current thing is.

Japanese auteur devs may be weird and egotistic, but they at least are interested in improving on their craft, whereas western devs are more interested in soapboxing.

 

[octavius]

Sometimes it feels like Western devs are on their own quest to become an Avatar of Virtue Signaling.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

The book sounds interesting, is it any good?

It’s sword & soul pulp fiction. If you liked Conan or Kothar, then it’s more of the same but the worldbuilding is mythic West Africa rather than mythic Proto-Indo-Europe.

Would even an indie developer dare doing that? Players may be thought to need a protagonist more like themselves (even a black American might do in a pinch), while gaming journalist would need white villains to fit their preconcieved notions, or risk ending up confused and angry.

This is exactly why I never want to see white people in fiction ever again until all the leftoid woke jew-murdering Nazis are no longer in power. Whites are now always reduced to punching bags and caricatures. No representation is better than bad representation.

Speaking of, I’m sick of BIPOC characters being defined by racial trauma. It’s dehumanizing and exploitative in the other direction.

 

[JarlFrank]

until all the leftoid woke jews are no longer in power

Fixed.

 

[AndyS]

Since the Japanese and anime was mentioned, anybody have any fair idea about the level of the Japanese people that are well read in more classic literature and their own history and religion (or western even)? What are their influences, what drives their ideas? I'm not really asking about the anime stuff, but the more classical stuff and non-anime styles of fiction. Just interested since their stuff is much less pozzed nowadays in comparison. Like I heard that one of the main devs of From Software was a big D&D fan if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Also, what is the key to their sometimes weird outlandish stuff in fiction, from a western point of view?

Japan has the problem of being written by people who have not read any of the classics just as much as the west, possibly even worse than us. It's just harder for us to tell because we generally don't know what those classics are. It just seems to be in better shape because a barely human caricature with boobs is leagues better than the abominations against god and man we have in the west.

Hayao Miyazaki definitely pissed some people off a few years back when he complained about how inbred anime had become and the damn kids only knowing what they saw in anime and manga.

 

[Iucounu]

The book sounds interesting, is it any good?

It’s sword & soul pulp fiction. If you liked Conan or Kothar, then it’s more of the same but the worldbuilding is mythic West Africa rather than mythic Proto-Indo-Europe.

That reminded me of The Sunbird, which puts Phoenicians in ancient Botswana (the Carthagian Hanno did sail down West Africa, but he hardly got that far).

Would even an indie developer dare doing that? Players may be thought to need a protagonist more like themselves (even a black American might do in a pinch), while gaming journalist would need white villains to fit their preconcieved notions, or risk ending up confused and angry.

This is exactly why I never want to see white people in fiction ever again until all the leftoid woke jew-murdering Nazis are no longer in power. Whites are now always reduced to punching bags and caricatures. No representation is better than bad representation.

Speaking of, I’m sick of BIPOC characters being defined by racial trauma. It’s dehumanizing and exploitative in the other direction.

Yeah, I thought we'd moved on from that thinking at the latest in the 1990s, but I guess too many benefit from perpetuating victimhood (their own or others).

 

[Iucounu]

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

Shaka Zulu seemed like a brutal but effective conqueror of neighboring Africans. After him other Zulu kings waged war with Europeans as well, like in the Battle of Blood River, where 400 Boers managed to fight back over 10 000 Zulu attackers; or the Battle of Isandlwana, where 2000 invading British soldiers with modern weapons were completely overrun by 20 000 Zulus.

Mansa Musa of the Mali Empire made himself known as the richest man in history during his trip to Cairo and Mecca. He also founded the University of Sankoré, which apparently was a world-class facility during the Middle Ages, with over 300 000 manuscripts surviving to this day.

The mythological Queen of Sheba may or may not have been African, with apparently both Ethiopians and Nigerians(!) laying claim to her.

There are also interesting historical cities. It's a pity so little is known about the Great Zimbabwe ruins or Benin City, which apparently impressed Portuguese visitors with its neatness and vast moat system.

 

[NecroLord]

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

Shaka Zulu seemed like a brutal but effective conqueror of neighboring Africans. After him other Zulu kings waged war with Europeans as well, like in the Battle of Blood River, where 400 Boers managed to fight back over 10 000 Zulu attackers; or the Battle of Isandlwana, where 2000 invading British soldiers with modern weapons were completely overrun by 20 000 Zulus.

Mansa Musa of the Mali Empire made himself known as the richest man in history during his trip to Cairo and Mecca. He also founded the University of Sankoré, which apparently was a world-class facility during the Middle Ages, with over 300 000 manuscripts surviving to this day.

The mythological Queen of Sheba may or may not have been African, with apparently both Ethiopians and Nigerians(!) laying claim to her.

There are also interesting historical cities. It's a pity so little is known about the Great Zimbabwe ruins or Benin City, which apparently impressed Portuguese visitors with its neatness and vast moat system.

Then why the fuck are western retards blackwashing white european history and culture?
Sheeeit, dem ebul whitey stole the blak bruddas culture and dey heritage.

 

[Iucounu]

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

Shaka Zulu seemed like a brutal but effective conqueror of neighboring Africans. After him other Zulu kings waged war with Europeans as well, like in the Battle of Blood River, where 400 Boers managed to fight back over 10 000 Zulu attackers; or the Battle of Isandlwana, where 2000 invading British soldiers with modern weapons were completely overrun by 20 000 Zulus.

Mansa Musa of the Mali Empire made himself known as the richest man in history during his trip to Cairo and Mecca. He also founded the University of Sankoré, which apparently was a world-class facility during the Middle Ages, with over 300 000 manuscripts surviving to this day.

The mythological Queen of Sheba may or may not have been African, with apparently both Ethiopians and Nigerians(!) laying claim to her.

There are also interesting historical cities. It's a pity so little is known about the Great Zimbabwe ruins or Benin City, which apparently impressed Portuguese visitors with its neatness and vast moat system.

Then why the fuck are western retards blackwashing white european history and culture?
Sheeeit, dem ebul whitey stole the blak bruddas culture and dey heritage.

In short: because they are retarded.

In the US, I suppose wokeists encourage black Americans to become narcissistic snowflakes (like they do with almost everybody). Some may at least try to create pride in their African heritage, but since they lack knowledge on the subject they proceed to make things up (like in that fictional Wakanda movie, or the fake-historical Woman King).

In Europe, maybe wokeists think white Europeans will easier accept today's uncontrolled immigration because a number of black people were here centuries ago (and also in Russia, like Abram Petrovich Gannibal), which seems a bit illogical. But maybe it's also thought to make immigrant consumers feel a connection with European history --if immigrants where just shown their own culture and heritage maybe they would self-isolate in ghettos instead of taking part in general society (I suppose that's exactly what many Islamic immigrants are already doing, obviously they're not interested in say Pride parades).

 

[NecroLord]

Some African kings are also quite interesting from a world-building/story perspective.

Shaka Zulu seemed like a brutal but effective conqueror of neighboring Africans. After him other Zulu kings waged war with Europeans as well, like in the Battle of Blood River, where 400 Boers managed to fight back over 10 000 Zulu attackers; or the Battle of Isandlwana, where 2000 invading British soldiers with modern weapons were completely overrun by 20 000 Zulus.

Mansa Musa of the Mali Empire made himself known as the richest man in history during his trip to Cairo and Mecca. He also founded the University of Sankoré, which apparently was a world-class facility during the Middle Ages, with over 300 000 manuscripts surviving to this day.

The mythological Queen of Sheba may or may not have been African, with apparently both Ethiopians and Nigerians(!) laying claim to her.

There are also interesting historical cities. It's a pity so little is known about the Great Zimbabwe ruins or Benin City, which apparently impressed Portuguese visitors with its neatness and vast moat system.

Then why the fuck are western retards blackwashing white european history and culture?
Sheeeit, dem ebul whitey stole the blak bruddas culture and dey heritage.

In short: because they are retarded.

In the US, I suppose wokeists encourage black Americans to become narcissistic snowflakes (like they do with almost everybody). Some may at least try to create pride in their African heritage, but since they lack knowledge on the subject they proceed to make things up (like in that fictional Wakanda movie, or the fake-historical Woman King).

In Europe, maybe wokeists think white Europeans will easier accept today's uncontrolled immigration because a number of black people were here centuries ago (and also in Russia, like Abram Petrovich Gannibal), which seems a bit illogical. But maybe it's also thought to make immigrant consumers feel a connection with European history --if immigrants where just shown their own culture and heritage maybe they would self-isolate in ghettos instead of taking part in general society (I suppose that's exactly what many Islamic immigrants are already doing, obviously they're not interested in say Pride parades).

It's gonna go down in flames eventually.
Multiculturalism is just retarded and runs contrary to basic human tendencies and nature.
The results are gonna be interesting...

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Another problem is that devs are obsessed with Tolkien and refuse to do anything else but badly copying Middle Earth. Eurofantasy is oversaturated. Devs need to explore new settings like historical, alternate history, modern, scifi, etc. If the quality is good, then people will buy it.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Another problem is that devs are obsessed with Tolkien and refuse to do anything else but badly copying Middle Earth. Eurofantasy is oversaturated. Devs need to explore new settings like historical, alternate history, modern, scifi, etc. If the quality is good, then people will buy it.

Are they at this point, though? Sure, they have elves, dwarves, orcs and hobbits, but Tolkien is more than that. Stuff like the Underdark and creatures from other planes aren't very Tolkien-esque. They've added so much stuff to their theme park versions of Eurofantasy that it doesn't resemble anything the genre originally took inspiration from. I can't actually think of a game released recently that is a bad copy of Middle-Earth.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[RaggleFraggle]

Another problem is that devs are obsessed with Tolkien and refuse to do anything else but badly copying Middle Earth. Eurofantasy is oversaturated. Devs need to explore new settings like historical, alternate history, modern, scifi, etc. If the quality is good, then people will buy it.

Are they at this point, though? Sure, they have elves, dwarves, orcs and hobbits, but Tolkien is more than that. Stuff like the Underdark and creatures from other planes aren't very Tolkien-esque. They've added so much stuff to their theme park versions of Eurofantasy that it doesn't resemble anything the genre originally took inspiration from. I can't actually think of a game released recently that is a bad copy of Middle-Earth.

D&D-esque then. The genre is oversaturated, games are homogeneous, creativity is being strangled, blah blah blah. I’m sick of it.

Exactly! This is every fantasy game. I’m tired of the fantasy genre. I want devs to do new genres instead of beating that dead horse.