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Yet Another Morrowind Thread

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,739
put that shit on wabbajack bruh i ain't reading all that text

Honestly I would comply if it wasn't because it takes a lot of work. Perhaps one day I will do it.
i don't know how much difficult would it be to set it up, but at most you'd be competing with one other modlist, morrowind wabbajack scene is pretty ded

It's a bit difficult because some mods (including Mod Organizer 2) either aren't available on Nexus or aren't mods per se. So you have to teach Wabbajack all that.
Plus I think it requires Windows 10, and I'm on an older Windows.
 

CootKeeper

Augur
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
131

Good list Sigourn, you definitely know what you're talking about. a couple questions:

- you're not using django's dialogue? why not?
- last time I tried graphic herbalism mwse, some mushrooms (the Hypha Facia and violet coprinus) on Bitter Coast up North from Seyda Neen still opened as plant containers for me. I also noticed some plant meshes were spinning when I picked them. have you encountered the same problems?
- I tried using AURA some time ago. The weather sounds are either super loud or super quiet, but never at the right level when loading in a new cell. looks like sound levels are not well managed with mwse. have you got that problem too? I've returned to using Kirel's interior weather as a result since I don't have that problem with that mod, perhaps because it loads with a esp.
- you're changing the MGE XE distant static override and it only keeps track of vanilla meshes. what happens if you use a land mod such as tamriel rebuilt? will the override still work? are you supposed to update the distant land during a playthrough? no way to make it automatic?
- you're not a fan of animated morrowind? new body mods? animation compilation?
- you don't use nighttime door locks?
- i saw that you've made patches for other mods and also new mods entirely that you didn't put on the nexus. they look good, you should put them up.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,739
Good list Sigourn, you definitely know what you're talking about. a couple questions:

Thanks! :D

- you're not using django's dialogue? why not?

Django's dialogue has a very... particular style, which I feel clashes with the vanilla game. But also, it overwrites many fixes from Patch for Purists.

- last time I tried graphic herbalism mwse, some mushrooms (the Hypha Facia and violet coprinus) on Bitter Coast up North from Seyda Neen still opened as plant containers for me. I also noticed some plant meshes were spinning when I picked them. have you encountered the same problems?

Nope. None of that over here. The only bug I've encountered is addressed by another mod (something about Ash Yams not losing their collision when picked).

- I tried using AURA some time ago. The weather sounds are either super loud or super quiet, but never at the right level when loading in a new cell. looks like sound levels are not well managed with mwse. have you got that problem too?

I definitely got the latter problem. I can't hear shit with AURA. I'll have to give that mod you mentioned a go.

- you're changing the MGE XE distant static override and it only keeps track of vanilla meshes. what happens if you use a land mod such as tamriel rebuilt? will the override still work? are you supposed to update the distant land during a playthrough? no way to make it automatic?

Basically MGE XE's Distant Static Override deals with how certain meshes should be dealt with in Distant Land generation. I don't know what the case is with Tamriel Rebuilt, but in vanilla Morrowind there are some quests that modify the terrain after they are completed (or while they are being completed). Such as the Ghostfence disappearing after you beat Dagoth Ur. What this file does is allow you to edit whether you want those meshes to be accounted for when generating Distant Land.

- you're not a fan of animated morrowind? new body mods? animation compilation?

Nope. :cry: For compatibility and for consistency, if anything.


Same with this one: compatibility. If there was a lua based mod that did what this mod does, it would be fantastic.

- i saw that you've made patches for other mods and also new mods entirely that you didn't put on the nexus. they look good, you should put them up.

I was thinking of doing this. I already have a Nexus page which is a collection of minimods and patches. Who knows? Maybe in the next weeks. :cool:
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,818
Location
Australia
The update to Tamriel Rebuilt's first released map, the Telvannis district, is finally happening as discussed a few pages ago. They're starting with a re-design of the Imperial cities/settlements which will be released alongside the upcoming 'Dominions of Dust', which moves further west into mainland Hlaalu territory.

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/october-2021-progress-update

The early Tamriel Rebuilt content is still fairly decent, but it feels really outdated in comparison to the newer content released from Old Ebonheart (2018) onward. This goes for everything about the project - quest design, interiors, exteriors etc. Quests were generally quite basic and exteriors were often quite large without much thought for navigability, culminating in the insane preview version of Almalexia. Releases since then have really reigned in the exterior design, keeping the size of locations a bit more similar to vanilla Morrowind but making them more dense. Comparing Old Ebonheart to Firewatch or Port Telvannis is a fantastic example. I'm really looking forward to this next release and what it means for the next few years of the project. Finally, we'll see an update to all of that old Telvanni and Indoril/Temple content in eastern Morrowind.
 

FriendlyMerchant

Guest
Did any of you boys even zero sum yet today?

ehTO96b.png
I never realized there was only enough space in the interface for six digits as well. I'm well over it in terms of INT.
 

zool

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
900
The update to Tamriel Rebuilt's first released map, the Telvannis district, is finally happening as discussed a few pages ago. They're starting with a re-design of the Imperial cities/settlements which will be released alongside the upcoming 'Dominions of Dust', which moves further west into mainland Hlaalu territory.

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/october-2021-progress-update

The early Tamriel Rebuilt content is still fairly decent, but it feels really outdated in comparison to the newer content released from Old Ebonheart (2018) onward. This goes for everything about the project - quest design, interiors, exteriors etc. Quests were generally quite basic and exteriors were often quite large without much thought for navigability, culminating in the insane preview version of Almalexia. Releases since then have really reigned in the exterior design, keeping the size of locations a bit more similar to vanilla Morrowind but making them more dense. Comparing Old Ebonheart to Firewatch or Port Telvannis is a fantastic example. I'm really looking forward to this next release and what it means for the next few years of the project. Finally, we'll see an update to all of that old Telvanni and Indoril/Temple content in eastern Morrowind.

Though I can understand the rationale behind it (and it is true both Firewatch and Helnim were in some ways incoherent with the lore), I still wish they would focus on releasing new content. There is still so much Redoran territory to be released before we finally have a chance to see southern Morrowind and House Dres - which should be the most exotic part of Morrowind, as in, the most different from Vvardenfell. Then, there is Almalexia of course.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,818
Location
Australia
Though I can understand the rationale behind it (and it is true both Firewatch and Helnim were in some ways incoherent with the lore), I still wish they would focus on releasing new content. There is still so much Redoran territory to be released before we finally have a chance to see southern Morrowind and House Dres - which should be the most exotic part of Morrowind, as in, the most different from Vvardenfell. Then, there is Almalexia of course.

I'd say the same thing, but re-working old content is a lot less intensive than creating entirely new stuff and a look at the claims section of the forums proves it. It's mostly fixing the locations of quests focused in Helnim and updating Helnim interiors to current standards, while relocating them to Firewatch. 90% of the work has already been done. House Dres is the holy grail of Tamriel Rebuilt and I still think it's a long, long way off for the simple reason that it can't rely on any pre-established assets and visuals. You're asking a team of modders to conceptualize and implement something entirely brand new and try to keep it married to the aesthetics of vanilla Morrowind. It's going to be really tough.
 
Self-Ejected

RNGsus

Self-Ejected
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
8,106
Are they redoing all Telvanni or just the imperial settlements? I remember Port Telvannis sucking fps and making no sense.
 

zool

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
900
Are they redoing all Telvanni or just the imperial settlements? I remember Port Telvannis sucking fps and making no sense.

Didn't have any FPS problem in Port Telvannis. What do you mean "made no sense"?

I really hope they're not going to to redo all of Telvanni, most of it was fine.
 
Self-Ejected

RNGsus

Self-Ejected
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
8,106
Are they redoing all Telvanni or just the imperial settlements? I remember Port Telvannis sucking fps and making no sense.

Didn't have any FPS problem in Port Telvannis. What do you mean "made no sense"?

I really hope they're not going to to redo all of Telvanni, most of it was fine.
No, they need to take a dozer to that entire map.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,818
Location
Australia
Are they redoing all Telvanni or just the imperial settlements? I remember Port Telvannis sucking fps and making no sense.
Tucked away somewhere in the forum, you can see that they intend to overhaul all of Telvannis at some point, and the update to the Imperial settlements is just the start of it. By the look of things, the overhaul to the Telvanni content will be a lot more drastic and I get the feeling a lot of the quest content and so on will be getting replaced too. Port Telvannis is definitely too large for its own good and doesn't really fit with how cities in Morrowind are navigated, and its layout is pretty nonsensical. I wouldn't be surprised if the footprint gets downsized but it becomes more vertically dense. The city already has a large "skywalk" section, but the problem is that there's nothing below it, so the benefit of a skywalk is completely negated and what you end up having is a situation where the player walks from the river strider to the Parliament of Bugs without the ability to stop at services on the way. It's the opposite of how literally every single city in the game works. It shouldn't require two maps on the UESP or take up something like 9 cells.

You can see that in the Telvanni planning document that several characters are due to be replaced or merged, although I know some of the stuff in here is quite contentious (like making Gothren a Wizard lmao) and other proposals can be found in the Brainstorming thread. I'm sure more discussion goes on in the discord which I have no wish to join. It's all still up in the air and subject to change, but I think everyone involved is aware that the Telvannis content is currently only adequate in the sense that it's playable and provides Telvanni players with something extra to do.
 

zool

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
900
Great, a mod known for its lengthy development cycle decides to hop on the remaster wagon.

We're never going to see Tear at this rate.
 

wwsd

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
8,258
Having replayed this content recently, I can see why they might want to change it after the Imperial settlements on the Telvannis map. Port Telvannis is pretty dumb now. Getting from the ground to the walkway is best navigated by levitating, which is not so strange for a Telvanni city, but the thing itself is pointless. Some other towns in TR have interesting vertical constructions against a cliff face and such, maybe they should make PT more interesting vertically? Or expand the port so it contains more than just a few river striders and slaves.

Also some of the quest lines are OK to good, but a lot of it is not really fleshed out. Most of the Telvanni councilors are just analogues for the Vvardenfell ones, but with very little unique dialogue for all but one. It kind of stands to reason since the mainland Telvanni are supposed to be even more isolationist. But as I mentioned, unless you turn it off, you still need their support to be appointed Hortator for the vanilla main quest... I can imagine the original team just wanted to release the map and figure out the content later.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,818
Location
Australia
Having replayed this content recently, I can see why they might want to change it after the Imperial settlements on the Telvannis map. Port Telvannis is pretty dumb now. Getting from the ground to the walkway is best navigated by levitating, which is not so strange for a Telvanni city, but the thing itself is pointless. Some other towns in TR have interesting vertical constructions against a cliff face and such, maybe they should make PT more interesting vertically? Or expand the port so it contains more than just a few river striders and slaves
Like I said, I think the answer is to reduce the footprint but basically keep the same amount of interior cells. Have the ground level be more cramped with a sprawling skywalk up above, which CAN be navigated on foot but is understandably much easier to get around with levitation. Don't force the player to levitate in anything that isn't a Sadrith tower, or doesn't have a character-based explanation. Marog has a spellsword who wants to be left alone, so his house is built into a cliffside without a walkway attached. Stuff like this is fine, but it seems like there's a sort of flanderization of the Telvanni which often occurs within the TES community, where people like to pretend that they're unreachable without Levitation when the reality is that it's only needed to actual reach the House Masters in the upper sections of towers.

Also some of the quest lines are OK to good, but a lot of it is not really fleshed out. Most of the Telvanni councilors are just analogues for the Vvardenfell ones, but with very little unique dialogue for all but one. It kind of stands to reason since the mainland Telvanni are supposed to be even more isolationist. But as I mentioned, unless you turn it off, you still need their support to be appointed Hortator for the vanilla main quest... I can imagine the original team just wanted to release the map and figure out the content later.
None of the quest content is bad per se, it's just a matter of it having been left behind by more modern TR content. Like you said, some of it is also clearly unfinished or just not fully realised, too. The chores for the Mouths are all pretty bland or allude to political machinations which the player has no ability to influence, and there are also balance concerns like the quest for Archmagister Dral where you're basically given an enchanted Daedric dagger just for showing up and speaking with him. The Ranyon-Rhun questline is nice because it gives you an opportunity to do some Telvanni content that is more focused on mundane problems than on accruing personal/magical power (which basically defines vanilla Telvanni), but I'm pretty sure that it can actually be completed by non-Telvanni characters. Mithras is clearly supposed to be a sort of mainland counterpart to Aryon, but having Mithras as your "patron" only makes sense if the TR content is segregated from the vanilla content, which it hasn't been for some time. At this stage, I'd say anyone looking for extra Telvanni content is actually just better off playing some of the additional content included in OAAB than bothering at all with the mainland Telvanni stuff.

As for other Telvannis content, some of it has already been dummied out in recent builds, like the Killing the Messenger quest(line) which gave you two options for completion, either in favour of the Telvanni or the Mages Guild. The last time I played through it, I quite liked the Gah Sadrith Inquisition stuff and how it tied together three different quests in a fairly complex way. However that has its own problems of kicking off a chain of events which might seem fairly innocent, but then ends up involving you having to fight Level 30+ characters and trawling through a large Daedric shrine with an enormous amount of amazing loot. Kemel-Ze is still unfinished and is emblematic of early TR design. It seems like it was made big purely for the sake of being big. Something like 30 interior cells, many of which are pointless, bland hallways or both, and since it's unfinished, trudging through it doesn't even net you a proper reward, although one is available with no-clip.

Like the Helnim content which is largely being transplanted to Firewatch, I think plenty can be done with a lot of these old quests. They just need to be given proper resolutions or be tidied up a bit. I don't think mainland Telvanni needs a sort of "main" quest as it currently does, and it certainly doesn't need that quest to be handed out to the player by an Aryon clone. Just give the player some things to do that aren't basic chores for Mouths (vanilla already has enough) and some House intrigue to get involved with which acts as a bonus to the vanilla content, especially since most people agree that Telvanni is the most enjoyable of the vanilla factions.

Edit: Speaking of Telvanni content you needn't bother with, I really want to proclaim that Uvirith's Legacy is LARPer shit. It seems nice until you realise that the mod's benefits don't present themselves until the player has become Magister of the House, at which point you should really only be playing for a few more hours anyway. People who play for hours and hours after completing the main objective of a playthrough are mentally ill.
 
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unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
Patron
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
615
Strap Yourselves In
Edit: Speaking of Telvanni content you needn't bother with, I really want to proclaim that Uvirith's Legacy is LARPer shit. It seems nice until you realise that the mod's benefits don't present themselves until the player has become Magister of the House, at which point you should really only be playing for a few more hours anyway. People who play for hours and hours after completing the main objective of a playthrough are mentally ill.
Finally! My God I can never understand why this mod is regarded so highly other than the sheer volume of content. I like the lore and cultural depictions of each of the three Great Houses nearly equally but so many people seem to exaggerate their general characteristics to where thousand year old wizards become caricatures of New Age chaos "magicians", or Chaotes if you're familiar. Then there is that mod which is just on another level of obscene.
 

Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,818
Location
Australia
Finally! My God I can never understand why this mod is regarded so highly other than the sheer volume of content.
Honestly the best thing about it is the Teleport pads which let you bounce from tower to tower, and even then they're only really necessary because TR messes up the travel routes and makes sea voyages around Azura's Coast require a few more clicks than it should. Stronghold overhauls are always nice in theory, but practically the strongholds really just exist as a place for you to dump all of the equipment that you don't need but are reluctant to sell such as artifacts, or gear which is only situationally useful and doesn't warrant being in your inventory at all times. This applies doubly for wizard characters, since you'll likely have much lower encumbrance. Uvirith's Legacy and its ilk are very much the prototype for what constitutes the bulk of Skyrim modding nowadays - homes and abodes, unique or beautiful follower characters, with very little in the way of content that either adds new things to do or substantially overhauls/improves vanilla content and mechanics. It's very masturbatory.
 

wwsd

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
8,258
UL and related mods are fun the first time, just because of how absurdly magnificent your settlement becomes. :lol: At first the characters are pretty down-to-earth and there is some day-to-day management of resources involved, but later it adds completely crazy shit. I installed it in my latest playthrough again but haven't progressed with it yet, since I'm doing the TR content. But I remember a piano among other things, not to mention the dungeon with a vast torture chamber...

Like I said, I think the answer is to reduce the footprint but basically keep the same amount of interior cells. Have the ground level be more cramped with a sprawling skywalk up above, which CAN be navigated on foot but is understandably much easier to get around with levitation. Don't force the player to levitate in anything that isn't a Sadrith tower, or doesn't have a character-based explanation.

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. Although in Port Telvannis you don't have to levitate to get up on the skyway, there are some small "on-ramps" that are annoying having to look for. But I hope this will be made more interesting as you say.

The last time I played through it, I quite liked the Gah Sadrith Inquisition stuff and how it tied together three different quests in a fairly complex way. However that has its own problems of kicking off a chain of events which might seem fairly innocent, but then ends up involving you having to fight Level 30+ characters and trawling through a large Daedric shrine with an enormous amount of amazing loot.

I did this recently and liked it too. Although I lost sight of my allies during the final confrontation, what with all the deep chasms that the AI can fall into. :lol: So I don't know if they have anything interesting to say after you've won, or any rewards. But the quest can be finished without speaking to them. The loot from this quest line is very powerful, but not really a problem since it's not really possible to win unless you already have an endgame character.
 

Bark0z

Barely Literate
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
3
I have been trying to figure out the stacking of weaknesses, but I am not getting the consistent behavior I had hoped.

Specifically, when spamming my enchanted ring that has weakness to fire 100% 1 sec DoT touch, followed by 10 fire damage touch, I am leaving Caius with 1 hp with 7 hits ( 200 hp / 7 = 30 dmg, so not the 20 dmg which would imply no stacking, but also not some crazy compounding either, just 300%)

I did some tests trying to cast an 100 point reflect on a golden saint, and then spamming the above nuke to see if I could see any stacking in my debuff tooltips above my spell selection menu, but I didnt find it stacking anything (I did indeed see the weakness fire being reflected onto me but it was only one instance of 100%)

If I try to make it on target instead of touch, Caius needs 10 hits to get to 1 hp (20 dmg per hit implies no stacking of weaknesses) so no compounding in this case.

I haven't fooled around with weakness to magicka + fire weakness + fire dmg to see if it has any sort of stacking (other than the expected weakness to magicka simply doubling the effectiveness of fire weakness) since its more cost efficient to maximize the magnitude of the fewer skills anyway.

https://archive.wakarimasen.moe/vrpg/thread/2119372/#2126706 so thus I was unable to replicate what this guy talks about.

Anyone here know exactly whats the case with the stacking behavior of debuffs?
 

Bark0z

Barely Literate
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
3
unknown.png


Okay so I more or less figured out how the stacking works, and its really all about the weakness to magicka allowing the compounding and creating some crazy stuff.. havent tried for target yet, but touch definitely works

Was able to confirm these through the console readings from ToggleMagicStats command

This could be considered unrealistic since I have toggled the patch that raises the max magnitudes to 500, more for demonstration purposes.

Vivec dies in that 3rd hit but thats when the debuffs start to expire too, so I dont know if you could activate more instances
 
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Hag

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
2,331
Location
Breizh
Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
So, if I get it, using two modest 50pts spells with the same 5pts damage, first hit multiplier is :
0.5 + 0.25 + 1 = 1.75
and second hit :
0.5 * (1 + 0.5) = 0.75 + 1.75 * (1 + 0.5) = 3.375 + 1 = 4.875

You need to use five spells to deal less than five time the initial damage : stupid.

For 100 weakness spells :
1st : 1 + 1 + 1 = 3
2nd : 1 * (1+1) = 2 + 2 * (1+1) = 6 + 1 = 9

Now damage output is almost double. That would mean weakness spells are more useful for high-level characters. Interesting.
 

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