Why did Real Time Strategy genre die out?

[Beans00]

So your opinion is worthless. Good talk.
You'd need to be mentally challenged to play Halo 1 on PC and think it was a good game.

My favorite fps at the time(and of all time) is Unreal.

Halo plays a lot like unreal in terms of enemy ai being an actual challenge.


Quake barely had enemy placement because of processing limits, and barely had any ai lol. 'shambler see you shambler throw lightning'

 

[Lyric Suite]

Quake barely had enemy placement because of processing limits

You never actually played the game, didn't you.

 

[General Disarray]

I mean to be fair classic rts always hade a weird level of abstraction. Units who were pretty huge compared to the terrain and upto 200 units at a time in some weird death ball. Producing units out of a barrac building like on an assembly line. More of a function that games were still in 2D and rts were a thankful genre to produce and play with the limited technology of the computers at the time.

Don't get me wrong. I loved the genre, have all the old game boxes and played them at release. But it's not that strange that it evolved more into RTT where units sizes, interactions and composition actually made sense like Ground Control 1, Blitzkrieg, Men of war, Cossacks 2, Total War, Wargame: European Escalation. Or got streamlined like with DoW2 and Company of Heroes and added cover. 3D is what pushed the move to RTT, and yes I know that the Close Combat series were also produced then. That's not what I'm arguing. Then we have SupCom:FA that went into epic scale. And ofcourse all the city builders.

And there seem to new indie rts in production if you like that. But I like rtt and cold war so pretty happy with WARNO. Warhammer 3 with up to 8 coop we go system if nice to play with friends as well.

 

[Beans00]

You never actually played the game, didn't you.

I literally just replayed it last year



Please tell me mr human tampon before you start crying again.

I went to a random level in episode 2

1 zombie
1 zombie + dog
1 zombie
4 zombies across bridge
1 zombie + dog

What fucking encounter design is that? lol

 

[civac2]

Quake is about bunyhopping around corners at 60mph while frying demons with cool overpowered weapons. It's not about encounter design.

 

[Beans00]

Quake is about bunyhopping around corners at 60mph while frying demons with cool overpowered weapons. It's not about encounter design.

That's why it was a complete and utter failure compared to DOOM.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Let me repeat. According to this argument, the only reason RTS games existed was to provide a platform for people to play MOBAs (note, i never played a single MOBA in my life, and i WAS an RTS nutcase back in the day). Once MOBAs became an actual genre, people ditched RTS games entirely.

No, you obssessive retard. According to this argument, RTS games were satisftying half a dozen different niches in things people wanted to do, and once those niches were satisfied elsewhere, it greatly diminished their market share, the same as happens with any product or that gets a lot of competitors. People specialize, and customers gravitate away from the generic and towards the specialized thing they were previously using a generic thing to do.

You're also wrong about the level of sophistication in Brood War custom maps, but that's beside the point.

 

[Lyric Suite]

So basically the argument is that RTS died because dumbfucks wanted to play shittier genres.

 

[Necrensha]

There was a very long period of time where every single publisher insisted that nobody wanted turn-based games of any kind, and it lead to a massive empty hole in the market until Xcom reminded everybody how wrong they were.
Exact same thing with RTS, except that nobody has done a new and fresh take on the genre that still has normie appeal, instead they're all still trying to copy paste the old glory days of AOE2/Starcraft.
All it will take is one Baldur's Gate 3 tier success to resurrect it, however long that takes.

 

[Lyric Suite]

All it will take is one Baldur's Gate 3 tier success to resurrect it, however long that takes.

Did BG3 actually resurrect anything?

Because in my experience whenever a game comes along that shows the suites were wrong the whole time they never actually learn jack or reconsider their posiiton.

 

[Necrensha]

Did BG3 actually resurrect anything?

We shall know 10 years from now, when all the devs start releasing what they started to work on back at 2023

 

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, nuxcom's impact is plain visible in hindsight, but it took years. Certainly couldn't see the influence it would have back in the xbawks 360/ps3 days when it released.

Exact same thing with RTS, except that nobody has done a new and fresh take on the genre that still has normie appeal, instead they're all still trying to copy paste the old glory days of AOE2/Starcraft.

I disagree with this, They are Billions was pretty much the "new and fresh take" catering to normie appeal. It was this middle of the road game between a Tower Defence game and a proper RTS, catering towards the normies who liked to turtle in their games. Unfortunately despite selling over 1 and a half million copies it wasn't enough to keep the studio afloat. Maybe they had some internal drama, but considering the radio silence it seems like just money issues, unfortunately (one would think they would drop at least one DLC for the game).

There's also an argument to be made here somewhere that the recent builder games were made not because the people were avid Pharaoh or Sim City fans or something, but rather because they liked turtling in AoE2 etc, and wanted to make a game inspired by that. I mean look at Factorio, which spawned its own imitators BTW. The 90s RTS inspirations are kind of visible in the art style primarily (the map/gameworld top-down perspective that might as well be from Red Alert or KKND2, the pre-rendered art and color palette choices), the combat is an elaborate Tower Defence game.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Unfortunately despite selling over 1 and a half million copies it wasn't enough to keep the studio afloat. Maybe they had some internal drama, but considering the radio silence it seems like just money issues, unfortunately (one would think they would drop at least one DLC for the game).

Maybe they just retired? I know we like to think of these big successful games or whatever as creations of brilliant, dedicated artists, but a lot of the time these dudes get their 'fuck you' money and just buy a house and boat and spend time with their kids instead of working 60 hour weeks for their next release. Even devs that do work on their next big thing often take it easy and slow the schedule to a snail's pace.

I mean look at Factorio, which spawned its own imitators BTW. The 90s RTS inspirations are kind of visible

IIRC there's actually a game that's basically factorio that preceded it. Can't recall the name and it had a bunch of differences (no enemies, different perspective) but the gist of setting up a big factory with a crazy supply chain was there. Was just some flash game nobody remembers. Still agree it grabbed a lot of casual RTS players that just did comp stomps where they turtle until they can finish the entire tech tree.

 

[Necrensha]

I disagree with this, They are Billions was pretty much the "new and fresh take" catering to normie appeal. It was this middle of the road game between a Tower Defence game and a proper RTS, catering towards the normies who liked to turtle in their games. Unfortunately despite selling over 1 and a half million copies it wasn't enough to keep the studio afloat. Maybe they had some internal drama, but considering the radio silence it seems like just money issues, unfortunately (one would think they would drop at least one DLC for the game).

You are forgetting that They are Billions fumbled their actual release with that garbage campaign which gave it a lot of negative publicity. Also, the game was the bullshit type of hard, normies usually avoid those.

 

[Anomander]

There is Tempest Rising coming. Let's see how it will sell. It's a C&C style game with campaign.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yeah but 3D Realms.

I mean the game looks good from what we've seen but... those guys have a way to shit the bed.

 

[ghardy]

I'm mildly optimistic about Tempest Rising. In terms of looks, it's nice.

Importantly, it seems fun to play, in ways that say, Stormgate is not.

But then, there's 3D Realms involved, so...

 

[Hellraiser]

Maybe they just retired? I know we like to think of these big successful games or whatever as creations of brilliant, dedicated artists, but a lot of the time these dudes get their 'fuck you' money and just buy a house and boat and spend time with their kids instead of working 60 hour weeks for their next release. Even devs that do work on their next big thing often take it easy and slow the schedule to a snail's pace.

Doesn't explain the total radio silence for years and that is always a big red flag. Can you name a developer that after not doing any kind of steam update post about even the most insignificant thing just jumped out with a new game announcement? I mean at the very least devs post "yeah we're alive, maybe we'll reveal something next year" to quell rumors of demise or there's outright drama that people got laid off (Numantian wasn't just one guy making TAB).

You are forgetting that They are Billions fumbled their actual release with that garbage campaign which gave it a lot of negative publicity. Also, the game was the bullshit type of hard, normies usually avoid those.

I actually like the campaign, apart from the pixel hunting in the hero missions and lack of saving/reload during missions. It's nothing spectacular but the open order of missions and meta-tech tree combined with some decent scenarios actually make it enjoyable for me. I can see how the lack of save combined with the trial and error gotchas of the missions are an issue for normies (and not just them) though.

Survival mode just doesn't click for me and there seems to be a ridiculous jump in difficulty on the last wave in it. I get why people like it, especially since it was the OG game mode, but the reaction to the campaign honestly seems overblown to me. Not sure what the expectations were for it prior to release.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Wonder if the fact this is a genre that only works on PC has something to do with it.

The first RTS I ever played was Dune II on megadrive. Then I played Red Alert and Warcraft 2 on PS1

One of the first RTS - Herzog Zwei - was made originally for megadrive

So it's not really a problem

 

[Lyric Suite]

Wonder if the fact this is a genre that only works on PC has something to do with it.

The first RTS I ever played was Dune II on megadrive. Then I played Red Alert and Warcraft 2 on PS1

One of the first RTS - Herzog Zwei - was made originally for megadrive

So it's not really a problem

Again with this retarded argument.

You can also play a shooter on a console, but we all can see that's it not the same thing. So yes, there is in fact a problem.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Wonder if the fact this is a genre that only works on PC has something to do with it.

The first RTS I ever played was Dune II on megadrive. Then I played Red Alert and Warcraft 2 on PS1

One of the first RTS - Herzog Zwei - was made originally for megadrive

So it's not really a problem

Again with this retarded argument.

You can also play a shooter on a console, but we all can see that's it not the same thing. So yes, there is in fact a problem.

I recently replayed Crash Bandicoot 1. On a keyboard.

And I gotta say it was very comfortable

Mouse and keyboard are superior to anything else, but this doesn't mean that people couldn't torture themselves with more primitive control devices

 

[Lyric Suite]

Mouse and keyboard are superior to anything else, but this doesn't mean that people couldn't torture themselves with more primitive control devices

You are ignoring the context of this argument.

The problem isn't whether it can be done. The problem is whether forcing an inferior control scheme is going to have an impact on the popularity of this particular genre or others.

Can you play RTS games on a controller? Sure. Can the RTS as a genre really be as huge a thing as it was in the past with consoles as the primary platform? Unlikely.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The problem is whether forcing an inferior control scheme is going to have an impact on the popularity of this particular genre or others.

Pointing out to

You can also play a shooter on a console

A lot of people play shooters on consoles. It's terrible, but hey, didn't impact the genre

In fact, plenty of developers take this into the account and provide for console friendly features to accommodate the peasants

But do we really have some consolitarded RTS games for that matter?

 

[Multidirectional]

The first RTS I ever played was Dune II on megadrive. Then I played Red Alert and Warcraft 2 on PS1

One of the first RTS - Herzog Zwei - was made originally for megadrive

So it's not really a problem

Again with this retarded argument.

You can also play a shooter on a console, but we all can see that's it not the same thing. So yes, there is in fact a problem.

Plus the fact is these early RTS were more primitive.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's goes beyond that. Herzog Zwei was an action game because those generally predominated on console or the arcades.

The thing you want to ask yourself is, would Civilization exist if it wasn't for home computers?

RTS games took advantage of the same environment that made Civilization possible. If only consoles existed the genre would have never gone farther than Herzog. Just a strategy/arcade hybrid.