Decline When did decline start to you?

[anvi]

A lot of people saying Oblivion, which was a horrible game, but I don't even think Morrowind was that much better. It was ok, but it was still a dumb single player MMO with a single character. It bothered me that they just threw 100 skills into the game and said "make wot u want" and called it a day. It needed a lot of work with balancing and it was never going to have good combat even if it did have more time and effort spent on it. Anyone who disagrees needs to play P99 and see how much better a much earlier game was.

Also NWN gets more hate than it deserves. It has a bunch of problems but it was still fun to be a high level mage which I bet not a lot of people experienced. A lot of the problems were because they had to make it so you can make your own game with the toolset, and they also added the huge multiplayer component. They did a lot in one game, too ambitious, but it deserves credit for trying all that and succeeded in a lot of it. Also the expansions were good, one of them was great.

 

[Catacombs]

The decline started when I had to take a "real" job after university.

I'm sorry to break it to you: The decline started as soon as you went to university.

 

[Lemming42]

It'd be interesting to think about when the original incline began - I mean, when videogames first started to get properly good. It's got to be around 1990 for me; I never liked the majority of arcade games, I was always shit at interactive fiction, and a lot of pre-1990 RPGs are good but suffer from frustrating mechanics and interfaces (as we've discussed on the Codex about 500 times per day). 1990/1991 is where it really kicks off in terms of innovation. Someone come back me up on this, I'm too lazy to make a list of games myself.

 

[GhostCow]

For me it was when consoles started trying to play PC like games so basically with the release of the original Xbox and Halo. Almost everything wrong with PC gaming today is rooted in consoles.

 

[octavius]

It'd be interesting to think about when the original incline began - I mean, when videogames first started to get properly good. It's got to be around 1990 for me; I never liked the majority of arcade games, I was always shit at interactive fiction, and a lot of pre-1990 RPGs are good but suffer from frustrating mechanics and interfaces (as we've discussed on the Codex about 500 times per day). 1990/1991 is where it really kicks off in terms of innovation. Someone come back me up on this, I'm too lazy to make a list of games myself.

1990-1991 were the peak years of quantity of CRPGs, between the quality years of 1988 and 1992-1993.

For computer games in general Civilization from 1991 was an incline, but apart from that I don't know. Was the story faggotry of Wind Commander from 1990 an incline of Elite from 1984, for example?

To me non-CRPGs first became really interesting in 1993-1995 with games like Doom and Heroes of Might and Magic, and in hindsight Master of Orion, X-Com and Jagged Alliance.

And no, I never played Lemmings, I'm afraid. I guess I was prejudiced against it for some reason.

 

[GhostCow]

If you want to talk incline then 1997 and 2007 were the two best years for gaming that I can think of based on number of games that I enjoyed.

1997 gave us:
Dungeon Keeper
Final Fantasy VII (come at me bro)
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter
X-Wing vs TIE Fighter
Shadow Warrior
Blood
MDK
Ultima Online
Fallout
The Curse of Monkey Island
Interstate '76


2007 Gave us:
Jade Empire
Sonic and the Secret Rings (Fuck you I like Sonic and no I'm not a faggot furry)
Custom Robo Arena
Pokemon Diamond (PvP with friends was fun, don't hate)
Persona 3
Bioshock
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Portal
Team Fortress 2
Half-Life 2: Episode Two
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Crysis
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams

 

[The_Mask]

It was a 2-step process:

1. When my highschool jocks started talking about videogames. Gradual process. 2003 -> 2005.

2. When Clash of Clans was released, and then the girls from highschool started knowing videogames too. Mid 2012.

 

[Catacombs]

When Clash of Clans was released, and then the girls from highschool started knowing videogames too. Mid 2012.

Holy shit this hurts. I have a high school friend who still plays this game, if you can believe it.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

If you want to talk incline then 1997 and 2007 were the two best years for gaming that I can think of based on number of games that I enjoyed.

1997 gave us:
Dungeon Keeper
Final Fantasy VII (come at me bro)
Turok: Dinosaur Hunter
X-Wing vs TIE Fighter
Shadow Warrior
Blood
MDK
Ultima Online
Fallout
The Curse of Monkey Island
Interstate '76


2007 Gave us:
Jade Empire
Sonic and the Secret Rings (Fuck you I like Sonic and no I'm not a faggot furry)
Custom Robo Arena
Pokemon Diamond (PvP with friends was fun, don't hate)
Persona 3
Bioshock
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Portal
Team Fortress 2
Half-Life 2: Episode Two
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Crysis
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams

You're perfectly right about 1997, it's a year with, objectively and quantitatively, the biggest amount of classic titles in pretty much every genre (although rather barren for pure crpgs).

But damn, you dropped the ball with that second part

 

[Chaosdwarft]

For me it was when we were served mass console FPS games. Also how most major Publishers just doubled down on recycling every single IP and gameplay that already existed. As a marketing major I knew that "streamlining features" was just marketer jargon to say lowering the entry bar to the gaming market to the dumbest denominator.

I still remember when those "journalists" and "analysts" kept saying the PC market was DEAD. That was just an excuse for AAA developers and publishers to just ignore PC games in favor of the more profitable console market. I swear it felt like watching geese being forced fed to make foie gras, and people just kept asking for more... Seriously Nintendo might get a pass with the whole Wii episode because they tried something different on a wide scale. But on PC we just got served stale console IPs.

Anyways 1983 was a crash because people lost trust in "reviewers" to give honest opinions on the quality of games and swamping the markets with shitty games (thereby insuring we saw the rise of AVGN and other Youtubers in the future). True the gaming market is overall much bigger thanks to mainstreaming and big pop countries having large access to gaming in general. Also we have a thriving indie market and indie reviewers that act as a safety valve. But if this trend of AAA publishers trying to make games into gambling and casino like services persists they might crash and burn. Although public segmentation might incentivize them to keep part of their activity invested in "classic" games (non-microtransactions).

TL;DR: It's all cyclical, some years (for me it's 1998 and 1999) have better games; others times it is just AAA publishers throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

 

[DalekFlay]

Arcades were the best places when growing up because of the social atmosphere and being able to test yourself against local competition which was an addiction the better you became at fighting games. You'd have people from all over the city, different neighborhoods, visiting and form friendly rivalries and make new friendships. Sometimes things would get heated and massive shit talking commenced but it was always an in the moment thing. Nothing felt better than having a crowd of others watching you kick the shit out of people and putting their quarters up on the screen to try and dethrone you. Online play doesn't come anywhere close to that atmosphere and never will. If you were really serious you'd practice in hidden locations. I had a convenience store a few blocks over that had SNK cabinets (SNK cabinets were the cheapest for stores to afford since they were basically big consoles you only had to switch cartridges out of instead of keeping up to date on new boards like CPS-2/CPS-3, etc.) and it was there I became really good at King of Fighters 96/97/98 and another pizza shop usually had pristine conditioned Capcom games you would get a friend to go with and practice shit until the owners told you to buy something or fuck off.

If you enjoy that kind of competitive multiplayer experience that's cool, it's never been something I was interested in. I was talking about game design and monetization though. The arcade games I played, like say Turtles in Time, were designed to make you pump quarters into them, and then never own anything afterward. It's very, very similar to my wife occasionally giving Candy Crush $5 to get more "energy" or whatever so she can play longer. I was fucking thrilled when the SNES came out and I could ditch the arcades and begging my parents for quarters and just play the games with my friends in my house, for as long as we wanted.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

It's very, very similar to my wife occasionally giving Candy Crush $5 to get more "energy" or whatever so she can play longer.

Tell her to begin CRUSHING something on that GAT-DAM stove or else she can go kick rocks, heheheheheheh.

 

[kaisergeddon]

I'm going to simplify my thoughts on the matter and just throw my vote in for the original XBOX, Oblivion/consolification, the eradication of the middle-tier developer and the all-or-nothing sweepstakes for winning the lowest common denominator that game development became with the AAA industry. Special mention goes to phones and the psychology of gambling they brought to the industry. Indie and crowdfunding has been a soothing salve to a huge wound that hasn't actually fully healed I feel. Things slumped in the 00s and have been slowly recovering since the 10s for sure though.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

The arcade games I played, like say Turtles in Time, were designed to make you pump quarters into them, and then never own anything afterward.

GOOD arcade game can be done without additional quarters eg. Punisher or SF2. Damn, I beat Punisher on 1 coin and it was one of most rewarding gaming experience.

You put another coin just another chance and not for PLZ BUY +1000 DAMAGE GUN OR YOUR'RE SKREVD DUDE attitude of p2w shit.

 

[samuraigaiden]

The arcade games I played, like say Turtles in Time, were designed to make you pump quarters into them, and then never own anything afterward.

GOOD arcade game can be done without additional quarters eg. Punisher or SF2. Damn, I beat Punisher on 1 coin and it was one of most rewarding gaming experience.

You put another coin just another chance and not for PLZ BUY +1000 DAMAGE GUN OR YOUR'RE SKREVD DUDE attitude of p2w shit.

If you are able to finish an arcade game on 1 coin, the developers failed.

 

[AdamReith]

The arcade games I played, like say Turtles in Time, were designed to make you pump quarters into them, and then never own anything afterward.

GOOD arcade game can be done without additional quarters eg. Punisher or SF2. Damn, I beat Punisher on 1 coin and it was one of most rewarding gaming experience.

You put another coin just another chance and not for PLZ BUY +1000 DAMAGE GUN OR YOUR'RE SKREVD DUDE attitude of p2w shit.

If you are able to finish an arcade game on 1 coin, the developers failed.

Somebody has never played Metal Slug.

 

[Bigg Boss]

The arcade games I played, like say Turtles in Time, were designed to make you pump quarters into them, and then never own anything afterward.

GOOD arcade game can be done without additional quarters eg. Punisher or SF2. Damn, I beat Punisher on 1 coin and it was one of most rewarding gaming experience.

You put another coin just another chance and not for PLZ BUY +1000 DAMAGE GUN OR YOUR'RE SKREVD DUDE attitude of p2w shit.

Good? Not good for the Arcades that is for sure. You want a few more quarters than one. It goes too far with games like House of the Dead though.

 

[Morgoth]

When the internet, and game companies building their business model around it, yielded peak innovation. So around ~2005.

After that we just got social media and MMOs and DLCs and l00tboxes and other worthless, time wasting scams.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Yeah, when Expansion Packs became DLC is another key moment.

 

[Twiglard]

When Troika closed and "visceral RPG elements" became the norm.

 

[Vorark]

Yeah, when Expansion Packs became DLC is another key moment.

Wasn't horse armor one of the first DLCs released, if not the very first? I remember a lot of people crying foul over it at the time but the tards lapped it up anyway.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Yeah, when Expansion Packs became DLC is another key moment.

Wasn't horse armor one of the first DLCs released, if not the very first? I remember a lot of people crying foul over it at the time but the tards lapped it up anyway.

It was. One of the first and worst examples.

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Yeah, when Expansion Packs became DLC is another key moment.

I'd say: when DLC killed full-fledged expansion pack.

Back in the day, by EP people ment almost entire new game, now they will sell you single arenas, skins, hats etc. the thing that was reserved mostly for user-made content during 90'. The Reckoning / Ground Zero, Council Wars, Counterstrike / Aftermatch, Beyond the Call of Duty, Scourge of Armagon / Dissolution of Eternity, Opposing Force and many more... Something like 'Blood and Wine' is just exception to the rule.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'd say: when DLC killed full-fledged expansion pack.

Back in the day, by EP people ment almost entire new game, now they will sell you single arenas, skins, hats etc. the thing that was reserved mostly for user-made content during 90'. The Reckoning / Ground Zero, Council Wars, Counterstrike / Aftermatch, Beyond the Call of Duty, Scourge of Armagon / Dissolution of Eternity, Opposing Force and many more... Something like 'Blood and Wine' is just exception to the rule.

Eh... there's a good mix of both. Lots of the incline RPGs have gotten real expansion style content, most of Bethesda's games have as well despite "horse armor" at the start. Both Dishonored games got great expansions, as did Far Cry 3. I think the last few Assassin's Creeds have as well, though I haven't played them, and Kingdom Come. I'm sure there's many others not on the tip of my tongue as well. There's lots of bullshit out there, but this idea that DLC killed the expansion pack has always made my eyes roll a bit.

 

[octavius]

There wouldn't have been such a decline if not for the casual consumer drones who make things like mini transactions in games lucrative for the publishers.