Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[bminorkey]

Yes, how very witty of you. Anyway, I don't think I'm saying unreasonable things here. Most encounters should be bypassable through non-combat skills; diplomacy, sneaking, hacking, et cetera. I thought we appreciated games that are finishable without trash combat here? Let alone without combat at all.

 

[General Maxson]

I dunno, I have an inborn hatred of trash mobs. Prevents me from playing/replaying a lot of good games. Can't stand the repetition. I only enjoy combat when the encounter is genuinely well done and challenging. Which usually means it's a boss fight of sorts. I do tend to enjoy adventure games, but ultimately they lack a lot of other really good things RPGs have to offer.

Well Fallout had awesome solution for that. If you don't want to fight random encounter trash mobs you either: have a high outdoorsman skill so you decide whether you want to fight or not, or you simply run away to the exit grid if your outdoorsman skill is insufficient. For other, "in game" trash mobs I don't know what to say, maybe rpg's aren't your type of thing, because they all have a lot of combat... Some of them even bad combat...

 

[bminorkey]

Fallout was awesome for that. Planescape too. And it's less that RPGs aren't my thing, more that mediocre RPGs aren't my kind of thing. RPG is still my favorite genre (I don't play much of anything else), but the thing is, most RPGs plain simple suck. What's weird, whenever I mention I dislike non-skippable combat a horde jumps at the opportunity to defend their valuable random trash encounters... forgetting they criticized just that in games such as Wizardry or Dragon Age. I'm not sure if it's a kind of hypocrisy or just a deep craving for starting controversy wherever possible.

 

[Commissar Draco]

How and why you want to skip combat in a post nuclear Harmagedon game where you play as (para)military unit? Are you some kind of Hippie, mangina or Weebo? First people complaining AoD fighting was too hard now this....

 

[Infinitron]

Here we go again... http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=974

 

[mondblut]

Okay, how in fuck's sake did you deduce that from my saying autocombat is crappy and should be replaced with more viable alternatives.

You started with claiming TB is bad for shit encounters. Apparently you believe shit encounters somehow become less shit if you have to wait out animations and/or control every rectal spasm in real time, dragging out for minutes, as opposed to resolving it as quickly as the game can register a few keystrokes. This is getting very amusing.

 

[Volrath]

Fuck you Bioware, you ruined this shit for the rest of us.

 

[Infinitron]

I would like to see charakter diversity. That doesn't stop at gay NPC. The ppl in a world should always reflect socity in some kind of matter. And since Sexuality is a big theme in every society the point of having gay/transexual or plain old hetro charakters in a gaming world add to it's believability.

That said i don't want charakters to be too over the top, all the time. We don't need many over the top charakters. But at the same time some memorable over the top charakters are often a high point of exploring a world. But also to let those charakters stand out we need "normal" charakters too.
So i see no problem in integrating some kind of nice "normal" gay cupple here and there, in the gaming world. Maybe even an lesbian Amazon Village that robs the children of the neigboring village.
or a transsexual brothel.

 

[The_scorpion]

Can't they easily make everyone happy by allowing 1-4 player created characters, with a total party size of up to 6? Then biotards can have 5 NPC recruits or play solo if they feel like it, while normal people can play the game as intended.

Yip. Certainly a possibility. But the game still wouldn't be balanced for a single guy, and I doubt you'll get all that many recruits thrown at you early, so it'd be pretty hard to survive. But hey, that's their problem, I guess.

since the W2 forums are generally not a good place to ask, i'll ask here: why the party cap size cap of 6? Wasteland Nostalgia? or any real reasons based on (anticipated) game-mechanics?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I remember having 7 characters in my party in Wasteland.

 

[bminorkey]

Okay, how in fuck's sake did you deduce that from my saying autocombat is crappy and should be replaced with more viable alternatives.

You started with claiming TB is bad for shit encounters. Apparently you believe shit encounters somehow become less shit if you have to wait out animations and/or control every rectal spasm in real time, dragging out for minutes, as opposed to resolving it as quickly as the game can register a few keystrokes. This is getting very amusing.

You are a joke. Real time combat usually means that the shit encounters are seamlessly integrated with the environment so you can either bypass or finish them seamlessly. The kind of turn based combat that's in Wasteland usually means you are constantly forced to enter a sort of limbo world where combat is handled. Apparently you can't see how the latter alternative is much worse for someone who would rather avoid almost all trash encounters altogether.

The question remains how your martian logic circuits deduced from this that I would rather play an /action/ game, a game focused on /action/, of all things. Unless you for some reason think constant, unskippable TB combat is somehow a defining element of an RPG and everything that strays from that formula is immediately a "shit action game". Like Planescape, or Ultima VII.

I'm guessing all encounters are shit to a guy like him.

It's like you're looking for some point you can misinterpret so you can be snarky. I said most encounters are inevitably trash encounters, hence most encounters are shit to me. I would have no problem if all encounters were genuinely well-designed, but this isn't going to happen (actually, when the rare game comes where all encounters actually are well-designed, I prefer TB). So yes, I dislike suddenly getting interrupted with my adventure and being teleported into a limbo where I have to fight the pokemon I already beat a thousand times.

Why can't Wasteland 2 be about walking around and soaking up the atmosphere and talking to your party members.

Why do these things need to be mutually exclusive? Why can't you have the choice to avoid combat, handling things through say, diplomacy if you want to? It's like lots of unskippable trash encounters is part of your definition of a good RPG.

 

[Oesophagus]

Here we go again... http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=974

All that they can hope to achieve with threads like that is a chuckle from Fargo. And my utter contempt

 

[Outlander]

Yay multi story buldings (sory the lack of said in many rpgs is kinda a pet peeve of mine)

Multi story. Multiple levels of a building. Each level can tell a story. More times the game, quantity or quality?

edit: I get it now. You build a story the more you build on a building. levels of a game, depth added, elevation reached.

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62&start=290

 

[mondblut]

You are a joke. Real time combat usually means that the shit encounters are seamlessly integrated with the environment so you can either bypass or finish them seamlessly.

Seamlessly as in watching for 10 minutes as both parties are cycling through their idle animations and crawling across the screen at 5 pixels per second? Appreciating that is a rather curious way to express an unwillingness to bother with "shit encounters".

The kind of turn based combat that's in Wasteland usually means you are constantly forced to enter a sort of limbo world where combat is handled.

...and emerge from said limbo as quick as it takes one to press (a)ttack, (a)ttack, (a)ttack, (d)one. Did I miss anything?

Apparently you can't see how the latter alternative is much worse for someone who would rather avoid almost all trash encounters altogether.

Ah, a rat diplomat then, ever trailing just beyond the edge of an aggro radius. So Knot was right, another adventurefag who insists on ruining our games rather than keeping to his sierra and lucasarts shit. Kindly fuck off, sirrah.

Unless you for some reason think constant, unskippable TB combat is somehow a defining element of an RPG and everything that strays from that formula is immediately a "shit action game". Like Planescape, or Ultima VII.

And you are apparently a wonderkid that thinks Planescape or Ultima VII had good gameplay. Please continue

(and yes, constant TB combat *is* somehow a defining element of an RPG)

 

[bminorkey]

I know you're just blatantly trolling but you could've at least maintained the illusion you had something intelligent to say. What's the point of this? Are you trying to get some mad KKK points?

 

[Alex]

Well, Ultima VII and Planescape did have good gameplay. The combat design in these games is trash, though.

 

[Brother None]

since the W2 forums are generally not a good place to ask, i'll ask here: why the party cap size cap of 6? Wasteland Nostalgia? or any real reasons based on (anticipated) game-mechanics?

Nah, just a number I pulled out of my ass. "Two or so" to mean something like two or three, which is what people brought up a lot in the thread.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Here we go again... http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=974

Nobody is talking about making characters act gay just for gayness' sake.

The simple fact is this: gay people exist and they should be a part of the Wasteland world.

Everyone exists, everyone should be a part of the Wasteland world.

I will not rest until one of the NPCs is a Polish immigrant who mastered the arts of Ninjutsu in the jungles of Brazil.

fake edit:

Wasn't the great thing about Bioware that you got 'evil' points for not wanting to sleep with a character of the same gender? (I didn't play that stuff, friends told me about it)

 

[Infinitron]

In other news: I'm off to petition Cormac McCarthy to write more openly bisexual characters into his books — his last one hardly had any.

 

[Infinitron]

And why people want gay character in rpgs. First they add diversity, which add depth, because there are more things to see and feel. Second they can give player more ways to play game, which I think is very good thing because more ways to play mean more play throughs. Thrid for some people it is very nice to see characters who identify them same as you, this is especially importand for minorities who do not see such characters in 99% of all entertaiment media (this is why lesbians did go see those bad lesbian vampire movies in 80s, though lesbian were villians of story and most of time where killed in end, but there was so few of movies with lesbians on it that they could not be picky). Forth there are heteros like me who think that stories are better with lesbians on it, for example Yesterday was I walking on beach when I saw ugly man kissing ugly woman and I was feeling qualmish for such sight and I decided to leaved with hurry from beach. And now same story with lesbian on it, Yesterday I was walking on beach when I saw two hot women kissig each other with steamy passion and I decided that it was such fine day that I will sit for while to look view (I mean landscape you dirty people) . Fifth if you are feeling awkward about gay sex just try remeber that it good for you to increase your tolerance for such things and you can take delight from that hetero sex is usually equally awkward for gay people.

 

[skuphundaku]

In other news: I'm off to petition Cormac McCarthy to write more openly bisexual characters into his books — his last one hardly had any.

We really need a facepalming smilie.

 

[Volrath]

And why people want gay character in rpgs. First they add diversity, which add depth, because there are more things to see and feel. Second they can give player more ways to play game, which I think is very good thing because more ways to play mean more play throughs. Thrid for some people it is very nice to see characters who identify them same as you, this is especially importand for minorities who do not see such characters in 99% of all entertaiment media (this is why lesbians did go see those bad lesbian vampire movies in 80s, though lesbian were villians of story and most of time where killed in end, but there was so few of movies with lesbians on it that they could not be picky). Forth there are heteros like me who think that stories are better with lesbians on it, for example Yesterday was I walking on beach when I saw ugly man kissing ugly woman and I was feeling qualmish for such sight and I decided to leaved with hurry from beach. And now same story with lesbian on it, Yesterday I was walking on beach when I saw two hot women kissig each other with steamy passion and I decided that it was such fine day that I will sit for while to look view (I mean landscape you dirty people) . Fifth if you are feeling awkward about gay sex just try remeber that it good for you to increase your tolerance for such things and you can take delight from that hetero sex is usually equally awkward for gay people.

These people... I just don't...

 

[GarfunkeL]

Holy shit.

 

[Infinitron]

Hey, who deleted my reply to him??? It wasn't even abusive. I just told him he was hilarious.

 

[Morkar Left]

And why people want gay character in rpgs. First they add diversity, which add depth, because there are more things to see and feel. Second they can give player more ways to play game, which I think is very good thing because more ways to play mean more play throughs. Thrid for some people it is very nice to see characters who identify them same as you, this is especially importand for minorities who do not see such characters in 99% of all entertaiment media (this is why lesbians did go see those bad lesbian vampire movies in 80s, though lesbian were villians of story and most of time where killed in end, but there was so few of movies with lesbians on it that they could not be picky). Forth there are heteros like me who think that stories are better with lesbians on it, for example Yesterday was I walking on beach when I saw ugly man kissing ugly woman and I was feeling qualmish for such sight and I decided to leaved with hurry from beach. And now same story with lesbian on it, Yesterday I was walking on beach when I saw two hot women kissig each other with steamy passion and I decided that it was such fine day that I will sit for while to look view (I mean landscape you dirty people) . Fifth if you are feeling awkward about gay sex just try remeber that it good for you to increase your tolerance for such things and you can take delight from that hetero sex is usually equally awkward for gay people.

[Intelligence] This guy has some severe deficits.