Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #23: Gameplay Video!

[Tigranes]

Wow, I don't give a fuck.

 

[Jaesun]

Roguey is just desperate for any bad info on ineXile. It's kind of sad really.

 

[Rivmusique]

Roguey seems pretty insane really. Probably just blown away that a modern developer can be so stupid as to have bashing and lockpicking in the same game, did they not read Sawyer's thoughts on the matter?

 

[hiver]

Roguey, ... dude(ete) ... lets not get that extreme eh?

 

[Davaris]

It's not against the guidelines that you just posted.

Either they didn't cite their involvement well enough or by "videos of their work in development" they mean like a cam shot of a person at a computer. After all they have "You may not upload captures of video games or gameplay, even if edited" right above that.

I have seen quite a few WIP of games on Vimeo and no one is using cam shots, or taking particular care with descriptions. I think most likely it was, 'No commercial video game trailers are permitted.' that tripped them up. The first 2.40 are a commercial trailer, with no commentary. If they cut that part out it, would have been okay IMO.

Who uses Vimeo?

Vimeo is the of video upload sites. Relatively troll free and they encourage artists to show off their work.

 

[Comrade Goby]

Also I'm assuming there won't be much story and instead it'll be a low rent XCOM?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8748

No story is worth trudging through that dialogue system though

 

[Stabwound]

Also I'm assuming there won't be much story and instead it'll be a low rent XCOM?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=8748

No story is worth trudging through that dialogue system though

goby pls

 

[skuphundaku]

Who uses Vimeo?

Vimeo is the of video upload sites. Relatively troll free and they encourage artists to show off their work.

The fact that they're relatively troll free doesn't mean shit. Between trolls and stuck up bitches running the site, I'll take the trolls, thank you very much. I guess it's a site for namby-pamby "artist" fags who can't take criticism and need a sterile environment in order to not have their self esteem drop below ground level.

 

[Davaris]

Who uses Vimeo?

Vimeo is the of video upload sites. Relatively troll free and they encourage artists to show off their work.

The fact that they're relatively troll free doesn't mean shit. Between trolls and stuck up bitches running the site, I'll take the trolls, thank you very much. I guess it's a site for namby-pamby "artist" fags who can't take criticism and need a sterile environment in order to not have their self esteem drop below ground level.

It is for showing off your work to potential and existing clients. It is not a site for getting mass attention.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I wish someone would do dialogues like BiA/BaK again BUT with Skills system for them.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

I would love to see an evolved version of this:

Fuck storyfags.

 

[Excidium]

I would love to see an evolved version of this:

Fuck storyfags.

 

[Captain Shrek]

 

[Crooked Bee]

I would love to see an evolved version of this:

Fuck storyfags.

I agree, tone + keywords is pretty much the perfect system in my view, too.

Of course, re: Excidium's point, it should be less of an information kiosk and more of a system where your tone and the keywords you choose actually matter, quest design- and gameplay-wise, and are also tied to your character(s)'s statistics and whatnot. Where choosing the right tone would matter as much as choosing the right option in combat. That would really be an "evolved" version of that kind of system.

 

[Volourn]

"keywords is pretty much the perfect system in my view, too."

That's because your stupid. Key words is a sign of pure laziness, and shows a lack of imagination.

Or... since key words are so 'cool'... I'll use one just for you guys:

No.

 

[Crooked Bee]

shows a lack of imagination.

Funny how this is actually the contrary.

 

[Volourn]

No.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Roguey seems pretty insane really. Probably just blown away that a modern developer can be so stupid as to have bashing and lockpicking in the same game, did they not read Sawyer's thoughts on the matter?

I can see how it's a matter of personal taste, but I suspect that I'm with the majority on this site in holding game mechanics >>> realism. Sure, to make bashing an independent skil doesn't make biological sense, but it doesn't disrupt the game logic nor the setting, and frankly I place it in the same category as the numerous physically nonsensical augs/powers in System Shock 2 and Deus Ex. Not to mention that there's never been a crpg system outside of Darklands that is remotely plausible as a model of how people's skills/capacities improve - just like most species, our ability to lift/fight/sneak really doesn't vary much unless you're looking at it in a strictly comparative sense (i.e. if you take the scale of human variation as your model, then obviously there's significant variation - but if you take it in a species sense, then we all lift ROUGHLY the same weight, and can manipulate ROUGHLY the same kinds of object). Level/exp systems don't even try to model human learning - you don't get to put points in computer hacking because punching rats makes you better with computers, you get to do it because it's a fun mechanic that has enough internal logic that it doesn't break the setting. Use-by-learning systems try to emulate human training, but end up devolving into grindy and counter-intuitive gameplay (jumping everywhere to level up acrobatics). Yes, you can limit that if you don't use a sandbox system (and I greatly prefer 'enclosed but heavily detailed maps' like VtM:B, FO or Deus Ex to sandbox crpgs (yes I know FO has a world map, but it's really just a time/random-encounter generator in between enclosed locations).

But much more importantly, crpg character growth is biologically implausible - even if you overlook the physics of conjuring fireballs from your hands. Yes, when you train at something you get better at it - but only moderately, and only for a while. You improve significantly in the first year, but pretty soon it's a matter of training to maintain what you have, rather than to get even better. Martial arts mythology has distorted that fact alot, but having done 5 years of karate, 8 of kung fu and 16 of savate (the latter two concurrently), I'd still say that a gifted and fit 20 year old, with the right lanky-strong physique, and one year of intensive training is going to beat MOST ordinary-build (i.e. not lanky-strong-tall) 45 year olds with 20 years experience MOST of the time. Sure, spending your life training at something will make you much better at it than other people of your build/size/genetics, but it doesn't simply negate your body's loss of speed (you start losing that 'burst' speed as early as 18) and increased vulnerability to injury. Of course, that training might make all the difference when you're 55 and he's 35 and no longer able to rely on natural ability, but the point remains that NOBODY can train their way to being even twice as good as they are at something, let alone becoming 10-20 times as good as in most crpgs. Someone who is in average shape, but from a culture where regular swimming is the norm (as in Australia), might swim a 100m sprint somewhere between 1:30 and 2 minutes. An Olympic champion, combining freakish genetics with an absurd training regimen might do the same swim somewhere around 47 seconds (and would still go under a minute on sheer genetics and youth, even if he didn't train). Yes there's improvement...but crpg-style improvement? Fuck no.

Yet stripping skill growth down to realisitc levels in a crpg would be boring. Actually, most here would struggle to even call it a crpg, as any stat/skill development would be a matter of tinkering around the edges. Moreover, that kind of realism doesn't mean shit in a game. And I saw that as a proud storyfag. There are a lot of things in games where I care about realism - relationships between characters, motivations, themes, the internal consistency of the gameworld - but real-world biological consistency isn't one of them.

 

[shihonage]

When I see "keywords" in place of dialogue, all I hear in my head is grunting.

Wasn't the deal we made with you, "We give you food, you give us protection?" Well, you're looking pretty goddamn well fed, but we've been up to our tits in killer tomatoes for eight hours and not a ranger in sight!

You say:
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RANGERS
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NPC: Rangers what? Speak up, please, don't keep me in suspense!

You say:
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KILLER TOMATOES
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NPC: You're some kind of crazy, ain't ya? We should've known better than trust someone who can't speak in complete sentences!
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You say:
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GOODBYE
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NPC: Finally something we can agree on. Get the fuck out of here, you retard.

 

[Excidium]

It's the lack of a verb that makes it look weird.

Of course, re: Excidium's point, it should be less of an information kiosk and more of a system where your tone and the keywords you choose actually matter, quest design- and gameplay-wise, and are also tied to your character(s)'s statistics and whatnot. Where choosing the right tone would matter as much as choosing the right option in combat. That would really be an "evolved" version of that kind of system.

Yeah, having the tone choice is p. cool, you can be charming or intimidating or whatever with any conversation option so you neeed to figure which one is the best approach for a certain NPC, unlike regular skill checks on dialog where usually when you see a tagged option you already know that's likely an optimal choice (With some rare exceptions maybe, like AoD).

 

[Zeronet]

Great job comparing alpha of W2 to a finished game like JA:BIA.

I was under the impression this areas graphics were closed to finished, in order to show off in a video. If i am wrong, then fair enough.

On something more substantive, does key words allow us to influence the NPC using dialogue still? Keywords just seems a bit less able to allow the player to present their rangers in a certain way. Having different tones would definitely help.

 

[Seerix]

Let's see...

Keyword dialogue is not what I expected when they mentioned it the first time. Was thinking they turned lots of npc's into optional wikis trough typing keywords to get additional info and other stuff, not the whole conversations being keyword based. If done right, it'll be awesome. If not, then all you get is probably better written Morrowind.

UI looks out of place. I really hope it's either placeholder or one of the several options. And looking at it I'm not sure how it's supposed to be resizable, its textures may get really distorted when you start stretching them.

VA is fine and I hope there will be serious amount of it. Otherwise its a waste of money. Giving every important npc several starting lines of voiced dialogue like in BG series is stupid gimmick and feel really out of place. Fallout 1/2/Arcanum did it right with having several npcs fully voiced and giving them a lot to talk about.

Gameplay seems really unfinished, can't really comment on how good or bad it is other than liking the general options they mentioned.

The same goes for the graphics, though I looove the style, some realism with cartoony elements like oversized bugs or that robot at the end, etc. creates awesome atmosphere for me.

I wonder if they could release some time in the future a proper demo with a location and character creation. Sure it would probably be too much work but Unity's supposed to be flexible and a man can hope.

 

[kazgar]

So video is not available. Is it just me?

Moved to youtube try here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNbuOenVPw

Infinitron or another staff member should update the original news story.

 

[selkin]

hey, thanks, found it.

 

[Seerix]

Watching the video again and examining the UI I'll say that if you can move around every smaller piece, like for example moving the action points counter somewhere else and putting every character portrait all over the screen, then I'm fucking sold. :D

Though not being certain of that is a biggest problem here imo. Why don't they properly communicate all the stuff they intend to put in the game. What? They're afraid there's gonna be a space warp that will only make it impossible to put in one smaller function in the game so they just keep shut about everything to not risk any bad rep later? Bah, stinks of typical corporate bullshit.