Tyranny Pre-Release Thread

[Excidium II]

Two men

? What

If you mean the picture theres zero

Yeah but Irene identified two.

 

[Irenaeus III]

Look, they are far and with short haircuts, ok? Honest mistake.

 

[Fairfax]

 

[Ninjerk]

The blood axe host mocked the idea that streamlining is bad. May have said accessible, too.

 

[Starwars]

Hrm, I like the idea of the game but listening to that interview doesn't really do much for me. I think AoD, though probably unknown to most people who'd be interested in Tyranny, kinda wrecked RPGs who do the whole C&C PR schtick. And I just sincerely doubt that Tyranny will have the balls to really go for that level C&C. It feels like they're hyping the Plainsgate thing because it's one major choice in the game (sorta like Bethesda hyped Megaton for Fallout 3) but I have the feeling that the game will follow the Alpha Protocol model of choices which... well, I enjoyed that in the cinematic context for that game but I still think it ended up feeling pretty weak. Maybe I'm wrong though, and since he mentions a psycho kill-all run is possible, that at least gives some hope. But the whole "well, we spent a lot of time writing these companions and so we don't want to cut you off from them" just feels weak when they toot the C&C horn. And again, after something like AoD, they better come up with something good when they use C&C as the main marketing schtick for the game

Aside from that, we have 4 player party with faster paced combat... doesn't really interest me much. The companion combos sound kinda gimmicky. We still have a "combat game" where you can sometimes avoid combat or make it less difficult with other choices. Again, wish they had pushed the choice thing here again.

I dunno, it just feels kinda lame. When they present Tyranny it's like... well, this certainly sounds fresh and EDGY but then when they actually talk about the game it sounds kinda watered down.

Pillars has some of these problems as well but I don't have much of a problem with it because it was a game that went for length so I didn't really expect much from the C&C/reactivity department. But this is a different beast.

EDIT: And of course, when he starts speaking about bringing in a larger audience, broadening the playerbase and yadayada... it sets off warning bells. Hopefully it's not something they'll carry on to Pillars, and they keep that separate. I hate the way Bethesda treats their two big franchises as one kinda and they kinda build on top of each other instead of being two completely separate experiences. I hope Obsidian won't fall down that hole with their new Infinity Engine-likes.

 

[Bubbles]

But I think with Tyranny we're not going for the same level of nostalgia that Pillars was focused on with their Kickstarter... So we're trying to change a few things, see if with more faster-paced combat, a smaller party, things that mainly would appeal to a certainly broad audience, but still having that same core that people who backed Pillars and loved that game, they'll still find a lot of the same elements in Tyranny that they loved in Pillars.

By the way, the stuff in the ellipses was:

But I think with Tyranny we're not going for the same level of nostalgia that Pillars was focused on with their Kickstarter, bringing people into the crowdfunding for that game.

I don't like the fact that he qualifies being "nostalgic" and bringing in "faster-paced combat" purely in terms of marketability and funding here. I mean, I appreciate his honesty, but if I want to be sold on a game, I'd rather hear "we changed the combat because it made for better gameplay" than "we changed the combat to compensate for the shift from nostalgia-based crowdfunding to mainstream marketability."

 

[Infinitron]

One last thing from the interview worth mentioning - Brian says that in addition to being able to KILL EVERYBODY, they've added plenty of opportunities to verbally brutalize your subordinates, which probably makes for a better storyline.

I have the feeling that the game will follow the Alpha Protocol model of choices

Well, it's not like there are a ton of games like Alpha Protocol...

 

[Trashos]

I was right about the Iceberg of Popamole it seems:
"One of the things we saw, looking at Pillars, it wasn't actually a six player party because you have characters with allied pets and summoned creatures, so sometimes that six person party would result in a lot of characters on screen. I think one of our programmers, before Pillars launched, put together a party that was full of chanters, all of them summoning skeletons, to create a giant horde of summons to swarm the enemy, it was his own version of the Zerg rush. It was very fun to watch, but it was also a lot harder to keep track of what's going on in combat when you have that many characters performing actions all at the same time. So one of the reasons we decided to go for a four person party is that, we kinda wanted combat to feel a little more faster paced Pillars, and with going with four people in a party it's much easier to keep track of the overall battle and because we have fewer party members we can have a smaller number of enemies in the encounters you're facing. So the overall number of actors moving around on screen is less and it's much easier for players to keep track of everything that's going on and really understand what abilities their allies are using, which caster is about to get off one of the powerful spells and you have to go and stop him before he can actually issue that spell. The reduced party size really helped with the overall streamlining of combat and making it much more faster-paced and a more personal experience."

Well, I was poking fun so far, but this indeed shows great promise of being shit.

Yeah, I 'll pass. Keep them locked away so that they don't infect the PoE team.

But there is more to be said about his comment:

- If you don't want to have large crowds due to summons, then don't have summons!

- No, bigger parties DO NOT demand a larger number of enemies. In BG2 enemies were typically fewer than your party, and the combat felt great.

I hope this project crushes and burns. Otherwise it is going to destroy Pillars, the same way that Mass Effect destroyed Dragon Age.

 

[Excidium II]

- If you don't want to have large crowds due to summons, then don't have summons!

That, or have a hard cap on how many can there be active.

 

[Infinitron]

I hope this project crushes and burns. Otherwise it is going to destroy Pillars, the same way that Mass Effect destroyed Dragon Age.

Heh, hysterical much?

Funny thing is, if Obsidian had gotten to do a Fallout: New Vegas 2 based on FO4's gameplay mechanics, it probably wouldn't have triggered such reactions, despite being way more popamole than a Dragon Age-like mass market isometric game. They're a 200 man developer, these things will continue happening.

 

[Excidium II]

I hope this project crushes and burns. Otherwise it is going to destroy Pillars, the same way that Mass Effect destroyed Dragon Age.

Heh, hysterical much?

Funny thing is, if Obsidian had gotten to do a Fallout: New Vegas 2 based on FO4's gameplay mechanics, it probably wouldn't have triggered such reactions, despite being way more popamole than a Dragon Age-like mass market isometric game.

For the obvious reason that it wouldn't have been their decision.

 

[agris]

It was very fun to watch, but it was also a lot harder to keep track of what's going on in combat when you have that many characters performing actions all at the same time. So one of the reasons we decided to go for a four person party is that, we kinda wanted combat to feel a little more faster paced Pillars, and with going with four people in a party it's much easier to keep track of the overall battle and because we have fewer party members we can have a smaller number of enemies in the encounters you're facing. So the overall number of actors moving around on screen is less and it's much easier for players to keep track of everything that's going on and really understand what abilities their allies are using, which caster is about to get off one of the powerful spells and you have to go and stop him before he can actually issue that spell. The reduced party size really helped with the overall streamlining of combat and making it much more faster-paced and a more personal experience."

Right, because the visual effects that accompanied spells and abilities didn't inhibit our ability to see what was going on, it was a hypothetical 6 chanter party going full-throttle with summons.

Right.

 

[Infinitron]

I hope this project crushes and burns. Otherwise it is going to destroy Pillars, the same way that Mass Effect destroyed Dragon Age.

Heh, hysterical much?

Funny thing is, if Obsidian had gotten to do a Fallout: New Vegas 2 based on FO4's gameplay mechanics, it probably wouldn't have triggered such reactions, despite being way more popamole than a Dragon Age-like mass market isometric game.

For the obvious reason that it wouldn't have been their decision.

Not the specific decisions, but I imagine the deal they made with Paradox was for a more casual game.

I get it, it's an uncanny valley type of situation - because the game is of the same general type as Pillars, it's perceived as being a decline of Pillars rather than being its own thing.

 

[Trashos]

I hope this project crushes and burns. Otherwise it is going to destroy Pillars, the same way that Mass Effect destroyed Dragon Age.

Heh, hysterical much?

Funny thing is, if Obsidian had gotten to do a Fallout: New Vegas 2 based on FO4's gameplay mechanics, it probably wouldn't have triggered such reactions, despite being way more popamole than a Dragon Age-like mass market isometric game. They're a 200 man developer, these things will continue happening.

Not hysterical at all, I never go hysterical. It is just to the best of my interests that Tyranny fails, because I am a PoE fan and don't want to see it watered down.

 

[Immortal]

I hope this project crushes and burns. Otherwise it is going to destroy Pillars, the same way that Mass Effect destroyed Dragon Age.

Heh, hysterical much?

Funny thing is, if Obsidian had gotten to do a Fallout: New Vegas 2 based on FO4's gameplay mechanics, it probably wouldn't have triggered such reactions, despite being way more popamole than a Dragon Age-like mass market isometric game.

For the obvious reason that it wouldn't have been their decision.

Not the specific decisions, but I imagine the deal they made with Paradox was for a more casual game.

I get it, it's an uncanny valley type of situation - because the game is of the same general type as Pillars, it's perceived as being a decline of Pillars rather than being its own thing.

'same general type' It's the same engine.. and not just any kind of engine.. a kind of one trick pony engine.
I have no doubt we are gonna clearly see PoE through the thin veneer of 'edge-lord evil mcevilster ruling the desert world with lakes of pink goo'

It is just to the best of my interests that Tyranny fails, because I am a PoE fan and don't want to see it watered down.

This is pretty farfetched..

 

[DeepOcean]

I hope Obsidian won't fall down that hole with their new Infinity Engine-likes.

Wait to see what happens if Tyranny sells more than PoE, we are talking about afterall. Based on the level of causalness of most people that played PoE, I don' hold much hope of them stopping PoE to be dumb down.

 

[Roguey]

There's 0% chance of Josh Sawyer trying to make Pillars 2 appeal to a broader audience at the expense of the one it already has.

I think it comes down to–in a lot of cases–that instead of people listening to criticism they just know there is criticism and then they decide independent of it that they’re going to change some stuff. So like you said, you made a modest impact, you really struck home with some people that really liked the game, and maybe the execution needed some work. So why not just make the execution of what you were going for so that the next one is totally awesome and those things that people loved about it is now even better. Then if there’s stuff that’s janky about it, yeah change the janky stuff, but not if it’s something that those people that loved the game really liked. Just make it better. I think there’s where things go wrong. People look at something and go, “Ok, so we have this core of people that love the game and this other group that fundamentally hates it, so let’s make it a different game.” And it’s like, “Well… no. They hate the game. They didn’t like anything about it. You’re not going to win those people over. They don’t even like the idea of what you’re making.”

 

[Trashos]

It is just to the best of my interests that Tyranny fails, because I am a PoE fan and don't want to see it watered down.

This is pretty farfetched..

Not at all, that's how industries work.

- Dragon Age --> Mass Effect success with much simpler production --> doom
- Sawyer has already expressed his preference on 4-member parties.
- Fenstermaker has already expressed his preference on shorter stories.
- PoE --> Tyranny --> ?

Read the writing on the wall, people.

 

[Roguey]

Imagine the hysterics that would happen if Planescape Torment were released today after Baldur's Gate.

"Can't choose race? Only three classes and you can't choose at the beginning, forced to play as a fighter from the start? No armor? No ranged weapons aside from one hidden companion? No companion weapon customization? You can't die? You get a power at the beginning that allows you to resurrect your companions? Lower FOV? Over the top JRPG-influenced spell cutscenes? DECLINE"

 

[Trashos]

There's 0% chance of Josh Sawyer trying to make Pillars 2 appeal to a broader audience at the expense of the one it already has.

I don't know what is going to happen with PoE2. I don't know what decisions have already been made and I don't know what they think they can get away with. But both Sawyer (number of followers, classes) and Fenstermaker (length of story) have already stated in our face (and in their boss's face, through the interviews) that they would much rather be working on Tyranny than on Pillars.

So if you guys think that there is anyone left to fight for the the incline of the Pillars franchise, I don't see it at all.

 

[Roguey]

But both Sawyer (number of followers, classes) and Fenstermaker (length of story) have already stated in our face (and in their boss's face, through the interviews) that they would much rather be working on Tyranny than on Pillars.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Sawyer's also stated from the beginning that he wasn't making Pillars of Eternity for himself, and that isn't going to change for a sequel.

 

[Infinitron]

Not at all, that's how industries work.

Industries dominated by titanic publishers like Electronic Arts who sell to millions. We'd like to believe that the rise of Kickstarter and mid-sized developers has ushered in a new kind of gaming industry that caters to niches. Any attempt to forcibly break a franchise out of its niche is likely to alienate more people than it attracts and destroy the chances of any future Kickstarter. That seems to be working out so far - Divinity seems to be on the trajectory towards becoming more, not less complex, and the Shadowrun games didn't get dumbed down either.

I think that if Obsidian want to take Pillars of Eternity mainstream, what they'll do is complete a duology or trilogy of hardcore isometric games, then hope they've made enough money and gotten enough publicity to launch a mass market spin-off title that'll be some kind of multiplatform Skyrim/New Vegas-type thing.

 

[Trashos]

Not at all, that's how industries work.

Industries dominated by titanic publishers like Electronic Arts who sell to millions. We'd like to believe that the rise of Kickstarter and mid-sized developers has ushered in a new kind of gaming industry that caters to niches. Any attempt to forcibly break a franchise out of its niche is likely to alienate more people than it attracts and destroy the chances of any future Kickstarter. That seems to be working out so far - Divinity seems to be on the trajectory towards becoming more, not less complex, and the Shadowrun games didn't get dumbed down either.

I think that if Obsidian want to take Pillars of Eternity mainstream, what they'll do is complete a duology or trilogy of hardcore isometric games, then hope they've made enough money and gotten enough publicity to launch a mass market spin-off title that'll be some kind of multiplatform Skyrim/New Vegas-type thing.

Maybe. I claim that a potential Tyranny success (adjusted for production costs and advertising budget) completely negates the possibility of a worthy PoE3. PoE2 is on the borders with respect to the timeline, so I can't really make any prediction on it, but the interviews of its leaders make me a bit pessimistic.

In any case, a Tyranny success can only be bad news for Pillars.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

Lets go back to talking about the insane archery in this game.

 

[Excidium II]

If PoE has SOULS™, what does Tranny have?