People News Torment Kickstarter Update #49: Kevin Saunders leaves inXile, replaced by Chris Keenan

[Douchebag]

Yes, it is.

And yet you're confusing cause and effect to such an extent, its pretty obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

And it's pretty obvious you have nothing to talk about. Fairfax is doing the effort of exposing his point of view with facts and arguments, you on the other hand aren't even contributing beyond saying ''no ur wrong''.

but ambition and mismanagement killed it.

Ambition is the main responsible here, as you worded it before. It's Fargo trying to turn his successful business into a mega corporation as fast as possible as if he wanted to make it to the cover of Forbes the next year. This coincides with what you can read about his personal life at the time, he was trying to play the jet7 and people millionaire. Success inflated his head and he wanted to be one of the major Californian new tech princes ASAP. That's how I see it.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Fairfax is doing the effort

You know what else takes effort? Pushing out a large turd. You may feel you've accomplished something amazing after that much effort, but then you look down, and it still a turd.

 

[Fairfax]

I would go as far as saying Herve Caen got a very bad deal and did no wrong.

Why many RPG communities decided to vilify him is unfair, hypocritical when suddenly everyone elevates Fargo, the real responsible, to the position of a prophet. If we look closely he had a very successful business, the second Ubisoft, publishing some bad and good games but very financially healthy. He took a major risk and bought a sinking ship without knowing much about the American gaming development culture.
Interplay employees are also never blamed even thought they are the ones who decided to leave in droves because they wouldn't receive bonus pays for 1 or two years due to the financial situation of the company.
To this day Herve has been followed by a crippling debts that would have plagued Fargo had Herve not bailed him out (and European bankruptcy laws are not as forgiving as the American ones). And people still have the nerve to throw sarcastic comments when he holds on to IP rights and tried to squeeze some money from Bethesda among others.

It's a very old misconception that sticks to this day because of when he had to make unpopular decisions to keep the company afloat while Fargo washed his hands from all the troubles his mismanagement brought to Interplay. He even tried to stick to PCs unlike Fargo's radical console policy.

Just my 2 cents.

You're right that Herve got a bad deal in the end, but Titus itself was bleeding money, so that didn't help. IIRC they acquired a majority in 2000, so they still had time to fix some of the damage. Could they have turned things around while keeping most of their talent? That's hard to say, it would've been a tough job for any CEO. Most of the poor decisions seem to have been made in that 1998-2000 period.

I definitely agree that Fargo is no saviour and people gloss over his record at Interplay and blame the french.

And it's pretty obvious you have nothing to talk about. Fairfax is doing the effort of exposing his point of view with facts and arguments, you on the other hand aren't even contributing beyond saying ''no ur wrong''.



Ambition is the main responsible here, as you worded it before. It's Fargo trying to turn his successful business into a mega corporation as fast as possible as if he wanted to make it to the cover of Forbes the next year. This coincides with what you can read about his personal life at the time, he was trying to play the jet7 and people millionaire. Success inflated his head and he wanted to be one of the major Californian new tech princes ASAP. That's how I see it.

I recall someone posting on the codex a picture of a gossip column talking about Fargo in the late 90s. He was living the high life, and that's a dangerous position for a former game dev turned CEO.
I don't think he gave up on the company or anything, and maybe the rest of the company's leadership was just as amibitious, but he was the CEO at the end of the day.

Infinitron is right that a lot of people failed and there's no point in holding a grudge (I don't, I just don't see him as the CRPG saviour, and he'll have a "change of heart" in a second if console ports are successful). What baffles me is that the same thing keeps happening and we almost lost Obsidian in its prime because of it.

 

[Douchebag]

I agree, no point in holding a grudge especially since in the end it's just business not even affecting us. But then he came back in 2011, claimed and promised a lot of things and people painted him as a savior and a victim of the consoles and an evil Frenchman.

That riled me up and the game he released as a result was really nothing special with a bit of a dull combat and a story that got very stupid as the game progressed. I can't be but a bit annoyed by a reptile oil salesman repeatedly trying to sell everyone his new remedies.

 

[Lurker King]

Great posts, Fairfax!

 

[Infinitron]

Douchebag, are you this guy: http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=50434

 

[Lurker King]

I agree, no point in holding a grudge especially since in the end it's just business not even affecting us. But then he came back in 2011, claimed and promised a lot of things and people painted him as a savior and a victim of the consoles and an evil Frenchman.

That riled me up and the game he released as a result was really nothing special with a bit of a dull combat and a story that got very stupid as the game progressed. I can't be but a bit annoyed by a reptile oil salesman repeatedly trying to sell everyone his new remedies.

You know, you shouldn't blame the oil salesman. He just exists because the suckers with poor judgment, fanboysm and simplistic narratives are there to support him in the end. Blame them when they are hyped about every new rumor surrounding retarded game concepts, spent the money of the rent in kickstarters and think that great games are masterpices created by one person.

 

[Douchebag]

Infinitron Are you Skynet??!!

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

The Tron is truly a master of e-stalking

 

[Irenaeus II]

No one escapes our surveillance system.

 

[DeepOcean]

The Tron is truly a master of e-stalking

Infinitron work for the MOSSAD.

 

[Fairfax]

I wouldn't call him a snake oil salesman. The snake oil is fraudulent medicine that people didn't want until they were convinced by the salesman, who's a charlatan.
Fargo didn't sell something people didn't knew they wanted, quite the opposite. He's more of a car salesman that appeals to the nostalgic. He tells you all modern cars are boring and look the same and he needs your money to make a brand new car that's as good as the classic Mustang.
Turns out the car had a shit paint job, the V8 engine was gone and replaced with a cheap knock off (aka 1.5L Unity), and the car needed major repairs after a few hundred miles. At the end of the day, he never sold us the classic Mustang, so it's our fault as well. Now he's raised even more money to make a new Ferrari 250, and we'll see how that turns out.

Also, holy shit, Infinitron.

Great posts, Fairfax!

Thanks.

 

[Daedalos]

And yet, the car he sold you, still comes ahead of pretty much all the competitors "nostalgic"cars being sold. That's great car salesmanship for you.

 

[Fairfax]

And yet, the car he sold you, still comes ahead of pretty much all the competitors "nostalgic"cars being sold. That's great car salesmanship for you.

Eh, not really. PoE was a better car, and the InXile Mustang just got back from the repair shop after a year.

 

[Daedalos]

Eh, not really. PoE was a better car, and the InXile Mustang just got back from the repair shop after a year.

Pretty sure you're the minority here, bud, if you think PoE was better than WL2. Don't kid yourself. WL2 smokes PoE, D:OS, Shadowrun but loses to Torment (Most probably), Underrail, AoD (Not on all fronts, though)

 

[Irenaeus II]

I bought several cars for my collection.

 

[DeepOcean]

You're right that Herve got a bad deal in the end, but Titus itself was bleeding money, so that didn't help. IIRC they acquired a majority in 2000, so they still had time to fix some of the damage. Could they have turned things around while keeping most of their talent? That's hard to say, it would've been a tough job for any CEO. Most of the poor decisions seem to have been made in that 1998-2000 period.

I definitely agree that Fargo is no saviour and people gloss over his record at Interplay and blame the french.

I recall someone posting on the codex a picture of a gossip column talking about Fargo in the late 90s. He was living the high life, and that's a dangerous position for a former game dev turned CEO.
I don't think he gave up on the company or anything, and maybe the rest of the company's leadership was just as amibitious, but he was the CEO at the end of the day.

Infinitron is right that a lot of people failed and there's no point in holding a grudge (I don't, I just don't see him as the CRPG saviour, and he'll have a "change of heart" in a second if console ports are successful). What baffles me is that the same thing keeps happening and we almost lost Obsidian in its prime because of it.

Man, that was a time of explosive growth on technology, gamming was expanding fast and it was almost the polar opposite of the stagnation that happens today, new IPs and ambitious projects were the rule. Developers got so excited and experimented with alot of shit, many that didn't turn out to be good. Interplay had alot of talent and creativity working for it and you can see the list of great games they released. It wasn't only Interplay that folded, Origin, Microprose, Infogrames, Atari and other companies or folded or were sold at that time.

Besides, all this talk of management is useless anyway, Activision has stellar management and Bobby Kotick can live a much higher life than Fargo even dreamed of but that isn't exactly good news for us. Bad management can send a project to development hell but good management doesn't make good games. It is talent and passion who makes good games and Interplay even with all its problems it had alot of both. I have my doubts about InXile but not even for Fargo's past but because I don't know if they have genuine passion for RPGs or they are just nostalgia baiting and I don't know if they have the talent to pull that cRPG renaissance thing, Wasteland 2 didn't impress me. The exit of Kevin and the replacement for Keenan doesn't exactly make me confident. I hope Colin, Ziets, MRY and the other guys aren't on the line to leave too as I don't trust the team who made Wasteland 2.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Let's not also forget that was also why when Sir-Tech went bankrupt.

Besides, all this talk of management is useless anyway, Activision has stellar management and Bobby Kotick can live a much higher life than Fargo even dreamed of but that isn't exactly good news for us. Bad management can send a project to development hell but good management doesn't make good games. It is talent and passion who makes good games and Interplay even with all its problems it had alot of both.

Excellkent part. It seems to me that at least some good games are results of bad management that bankrupted game developers who had too much passion to make it a "business" like what we have now with big and bad developers like Activision.This is more like when game development turns into an art, not a business.

That's why I try to support small developers with apparent passion who share my tastes/ideas for game development/writing.

 

[kaizoku]

The Tron is truly a master of e-stalking

he just needed to google one sentence:

"Herve Caen did not ruin Interplay"

 

[Irenaeus II]

he just needed to google one sentence:

"Herve Caen did not ruin Interplay"

kaizoku here showing off his Encyclopedia Brown skills.

 

[Douchebag]

he just needed to google one sentence:

"Herve Caen did not ruin Interplay"

I tried with '' Herve Caen did nothing wrong ''

o_0 Why is it showing up?!

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Did anyone ever actually considered Fargo a saviour, though? Its like you're arguing against points nobody ever made.

He's not a saviour by any measure. What he is, is one of the very people with capability to actually get anything going.

And by capability, I mean having a street cred and worldwide recognition to rally enough people behind a project. I honestly just don't give a shit about how much of that street cred is deserved. It was 15-20 years ago, what the fuck does it matter? He's here now, and he actually has something going. And that's already much more than we could have hoped for 5 years ago.

If what they're doing works, we all win. If it doesn't, we'll set Fargo on fire and flush him down the toilet, and I'll be happy to be the one pushing the lever. But trying to do perform character assassinations while they only released one game (and decent one at that) is a little silly.

Also, I have no idea how is it a bad thing that Fargo was/is just a business guy? That's actually one of main reasons why InExile still gets my money. I followed plenty of Kickstarters made by "legendary designers", and you know what? I'm never backing anything like that ever again. I've had quite enough of these people with their 'visiuns" and their "creativity", promising the stars and delivering utter shit.

If its not a) established studio b)project lead by someone who can get shit done (which Fargo can), I'm not giving a cent.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Did anyone ever actually considered Fargo a saviour, though?

Someone among these 60 thousand might have.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Someone among these 60 thousand might have.

I meant on Codex, obviously. There are people believing Jesus was a saviour, believe it or not, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there thought Fargo was.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I meant on Codex, obviously.

I wasn't here at the time and never read the threads about it, so I don't know.

And Jesus is Our Lord and Saviour, you godless heathen.