Thief fan missions and campaigns

[General_Norris]

Not only things don't improve, they get worse beyond belief.

I've never gotten stuck, lost and killed so much while playing Thief. Not five minutes pass without something forcing me to start over or load my save and the constant broken elements and empty rooms simply squander my patience. Levels are huge for no apparent reason, the huge cathedral has only four or five rooms in it, you could fit an entire level in the nave and another one in the crossing but there's nothing to do in that space, it's all empty air and you have to play the level twice because it repeats later on. In fact, you've seen all the available levels Cat, they are just repeated ad nauseum without any care. That empty warehouse level? It repeats again, only this time there are no enemies except a sleeping guard the designer forgot to remove and you have to find a girl without any indications and mines in the middle of a hallway.

It truly is the worst thing I've played in years, I've tried to be hopeful and try to ignore the initial boredom as the designer trying to find his feet but it's just terrible. Terrible in the worst way imaginable, down to placing ten tricksters/abominations on a rock and calling it a level like those maps that cram twenty cyberdemons in Doom and only give you the pistol but worse because Doom doesn't have 10 minutes of a camera floating in space while text scrolls on the screen.

You know what this campaign feels like? Of the worst kind of gamemasters you can have in a roleplaying game. The ones that want to tell "their story" without asking for your input. The ones that "punish" you with puzzles to prove how much smarter they are and the ones that prefer to have you read their fanfiction than actually do something fun while shifting the blame on you when his poor understanding of the rules makes the game a mess. It's THAT experience turned into a Thief fan mission.

I skipped levels to see if things changed and no, they only get worse and worse. Avoid. Like the plague.

 

[skacky]

There's that mission, Oracle of the Prophecies after the cathedral, and this is where I stopped for two years before going back to it, eventually. I finished the campaign but I'm not replaying again. It's just not my style.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I dug through this thread to find some other missions which might suit your tastes, General_Norris

Hidden Agenda (Heavy on the Mechanists, minor other elements involved later on)
Saturio Returns Home (A mansion mission with some beasts and cameras)
Lingering Whispers (Mechanist warehouse breakin, supernatural elements present)

I hope these are more to your tastes.

 

[skacky]

Hidden Agenda is an excellent mission, made by the same guy who made Heist Society. Difficulty settings change a bunch of stuff as well, more than in usual missions.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

In KOTP i reached that meteor kind of level... If I ever replay that bFM, I'll start from there... no way I'll play previous missions again. The cathedral level is not that bad, but it's fucking huge huge huge. It could be smaller. and you wouldn't lose anything... I aways like to backtrack in thief levels, to find loot I missed, but this one was insane.

 

[Melan]

I liked KotP, but as I wrote, it is very much an acquired taste. It is a cold, uncaring setting, which I enjoyed for the feeling of alienation and the non-standard gameplay forcing you out of your comfort zone (the same reason I enjoy Midnight in Murkbell while many Thief fans detest it). The planetoid mission was weird fantasy done well, and Reversing the Order turned into a panicky death-fest, the only escort mission I have genuinely enjoyed. The Cathedral in Insurrection was more of a tech demo (nobody had done something like it before - probably not even The Hammerite Imperium tops it), and cathedral missions have generally never been good for gameplay, but the time limit gave it decent tension.

I can understand its objective failings, but even so, it was an enjoyable experience.

 

[General_Norris]

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll try them once I write about the missions I've already played

By the way, how's L'Arsene series?

I can understand its objective failings, but even so, it was an enjoyable experience.

Hey, if you liked it, you liked it, no shame about it

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The L'Arsene series is good. The first one is old and a little clunky as a result, but they get better with every subsequent FM.

 

[General_Norris]

I finished my review of Heist Society so I'm trying Hidden Agenda now. Clearly not as polished, clearly not as beautiful, but still very fun. The designer recognizes many of the small things that made Thief great like having the combat machines patrol over metallic floors so their huge weight doesn't damage them. It's not as good as Heist Society, but it's on the same quality range for sure.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

Anyone played The Folly of Youth?

I feel like I've been trolled a bit by the map maker. First we have fetch quests at the beginning, which wouldn't be a problem if they don't require going back and forth over long distances. Which also wouldn't be a problem if we're not moving in completely dark areas with no danger at all.

Worst thing so far is actually lockpicking. For some reason, they appear to be on the longest setting (if there's something like that in Dromed -- never even attempted to make a map). And that would be nice if there's a patrolling AI which might catch us any moment now or some other danger. But again, no such thing here. We're in dark, completely out of danger, yet still have to pick the locks of various chests for 30+ seconds. Or it just felt like that. And then usually get a 1g coins or hairbrush.

Hopefully it gets a bit better. Found just 51 loot so far, 12 out of 22 pickpockets and only 3 out of 17 secrets.

Tried last night some CoSaS too. Played Gathering at the Inn...a decade ago? Tried it just for a few moments, and it looked wonderful. Snow falling, quite atmospheric. Will dedicate myself to it after The Folly.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yes, I've played the Folly of Youth. (Twice.) It'll pick up once you enter the Chapel, if you can bear with it until then. You should be able to pretty much clear the outside without little fear of being spotted, but the same cannot be said about the inside.

 

[General_Norris]

Is it worthwhile to try some of the CoSaS missions despite the campaign being left unfinished? Honest question.

I'm still playing Hidden Agenda, which becomes more fun as you go on because it keeps raising the stakes. So far, I've raided the vault and found the sacred Hammer guarded by Haunts but I'm still short of almost 800 loot, I haven't found any blueprints to steal and while I've found a lot of books, I haven't found any that fulfill the "Proof of what Mechanics are up to" objective which is weird because I've cleared most of the level of enemies and the map has been filled. EDIT: If I recall correctly there's a gear lock I haven't opened. But I've only found two gears and I've used them elsewhere :/

It also seems it's impossible to search the prison without alerting the guards because there's only one entrance and the guard looks directly into it. Since I cannot kill them and I've spent the only gas arrow I've found on one of those guards with helmets, I cannot try to see what's in there.

So far, I think it's not as well made as Heist Society. But since what is being made is more interesting, I think it's the better map of the two. Enjoying it a lot.

PD: Haunts are scary because I can't wack them on the head

 

[skacky]

You should totally play CoSaS. Mission X is a work of art (also very difficult).

Spoiler

I don't know if you're going for a no-kill run, but you can kill Haunts with your sword.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

Yes, I've played the Folly of Youth. (Twice.) It'll pick up once you enter the Chapel, if you can bear with it until then. You should be able to pretty much clear the outside without little fear of being spotted, but the same cannot be said about the inside.

Actually had fun. It does pick up nicely, and there's really something in waiting in dark while the corridor you're in have 6-7 patrolling AI! They're just appearing!

Sadly, don't think it can be ghosted, had to blackjack guard that stood before Private Prayer Chamber, and a Skeleton in the crypt (well, one can skip the loot), but still, no idea if one can silently open the doors in storage to find Charity...?

 

[General_Norris]

For some reason Hidden Agenda's Haunts are more ghastly than usual and you can't hit them with your sword or other weapons I've tried. You can hit them with the blackjack but I wacked two dozen times and it still moved so I guess they are supposed to be indestructible.

 

[Melan]

CoSaS is enjoyable; the first mission is probably the better one, while the second demonstrates how far you can push a level editor built for entirely different purposes in the late 90s. And also that being over-ambitious can sink the efforts of even the most talented group of mission builders. But the two completed missions really are excellent.

 

[General_Norris]

All right, beaten. I had missed the very clearly labelled "Plans Room" because there were two of them. The missing Gear was inside as well as one of the objectives so I just had to climb a tower to finish the mission. That said, if you want all the loot, you have to get into the Prison which requires moving through light and abusing the artificially dumb AI so as to not be noticed.

It's the only blemish of a very good mission. Feels a bit like a mixture of Eavesdropping and the Angelwatch part of Life of the Party.

I'm going to try the other two missions Unkillable Cat recommended and then I'll try CoSaS. I wonder, are there any big FMs (2/3 hours to beat, like The Arty of Thievery) you guys recommend?

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The latter CoSaS mission is humongous, and Seven Shades of Mercury will take a good while as well, but that's more due to tight bottlenecks at various places rather than an abundance of content.

But if you really really want a big challenging mission, then you may want to consider Finals at the Academy. The production value in that one is high, but I warn you that it's not to everyone's tastes. The difficulty level is ramped up to 11. You may want to leave it be until later on.

Thief players are starting to realize that bigger isn't always better. It takes a certain brilliance to take a big setting and make it entertaining through and through.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'm going to try the other two missions Unkillable Cat recommended and then I'll try CoSaS. I wonder, are there any big FMs (2/3 hours to beat, like The Arty of Thievery) you guys recommend?

Sensut's Being Thief 1 and 2 (2 is gigantic, it has a shitload of stuff to do and will take you hours to get through, but it does grow a bit tedious if you are still missing one thing you need and have to search the entire city for it; overall it's pretty excellent and varied, though) as well as his Bathory campaign, which I enjoyed immensely. Several big missions with great atmosphere.

 

[Lyric Suite]

And oh, i've implemented a new method to make me better at thief: whenever i reload (because i was detected, died, anything except saving time) i got on the ground and did 10 pushups. Did about 100.

SCO, have you ever been mistaken for a man? Trololo.

So, any particularly Codex verdict on the best maps?

 

[General_Norris]

I just started Saturio Returns Home and I can already tell it's a great map. But man, are the guards hyper-aware in this one. I have had to reload a couple of times already haha

 

[General_Norris]

Finished it, since it's a quite short mission. Very fun, really nice pacing. Every single room has a reason to exist and planning how to take poor Saturio from his prison cell to his mother's bedroom is very fun. Can't imagine trying to ghost it, though, I must have alerted all guards in the building at least once.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

Just started CoSaS: Mission X, and slightly overwhelmed. What a change from minuscule Gathering at the Inn!

Different tasks add a nice replayability factor, and there are some nifty new features.

Looks gorgeous as well. I forsee a looooot of fun hours playing this.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

So there's a new FM out, Bad Blood 2, which is a sequel to an FM done over a decade ago that I can't recall what was like. It's a 3-mission pack with the first mission serving as an intro of sorts, Garrett arriving into town, having a pint at the bar and then visiting a friend of his.

The "beer" objective went like this: I spent 5 minutes mucking about until I find the bar. I enter, I see nothing I can interact with except the "jukebox" in the corner - I can turn it off but can't turn it on again. Drat, that music playing was one of the few good points about this FM so far. I check my inventory and there is nothing there. I have a closer look around and find a set of stairs at the back of the bar that lead nowhere. By this time I'm certain that the FM is missing something so I check the discussion thread. Sure enough, a patched version has been released, so I upgrade my version and try again. Again, inventory comes up empty except for a compass and I find nothing to frob in the bar, but I accidentally frob a plate on the bar counter (that doesn't highlight) and I'm asked for one gold... which magically reveals a gold coin ("beer money") in my inventory. I frob the plate with it, get a beer and drink it. Objective complete. Now to find this "friend" I'm supposed to be seeing. I spend a few minutes finding that an unfrobbable door on the other side of town is now suddenly frobbable, and I enter, ticking off my other objective.

ANY game designer worth his salt would immediately tell you that the above "mission" is a complete and utter waste of time and resources. It serves no purpose that can't be explained in 30 seconds via a readable or a short video. The second mission immediately feels more Thief-like, and it's only there that the intro is played - except it makes me feel like I'm stuck in an episode of MacGyver for some reason, probably due to the music and cheesy effects. I don't know what it is, but this FM rubs me the wrong way round in so many ways.. I just gave up after a few minutes in the second mission.

As a result, I have little positive to say about this FM. It may vastly improve later on, but with such a rocky start I'm not gonna bother finding out.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

Finished CoSaS: Mission X.

Outstanding mission, probably the finest I've ever played, including OMs. (or maybe I'm just still under impression of it, we'll see in a while)

Spent probably 10+ hours on it, but definitely not a wasted time, as did manage to Perfect Thief it.

A little break, and then something from Bad Blood (1), Heart & Soul or Ominous Bequest Gold (played that before -- I remember it being pretty great).