Thief fan missions and campaigns

[Unkillable Cat]

Spoiler

I'm pretty certain I know what room you're talking about. Dark room with an explosive barrel that takes you to a small room under the steps, with nothing but a machine in the floor that can be turned off? I was wondering what that was for, but I haven't found any cog there except the one in the machine, and it remains unfrobbable. :-/

 

[Melan]

Spoiler

Okay, I reloaded a saved game to see what's up. The gear is actually in the chest in the same room, so if you've looted it, you haven't missed anything.

I played on hard and got 2250 loot out of some 2750. A lot of it was hidden in places where you wouldn't usually think to look.

In other news, Being Thief 2 has been released today. I've just played the first yesterday, and although there were frustrating elements (mandatory ghosting, the "your lockpicks are often completely useless" problem, walls which were a hassle to mantle up on), the mission was overall quite well-designed and enjoyable. The bodes well for this sequel.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I'm on Expert and I have 2230. I have been everywhere I could think of, even a few places the author didn't want me to be.

The only place that could be left is something at the very start, before the bit with the first elevator. I did find some loot there under a bridge, but I'm wondering if there could be something more.

EDIT: I was right, there is another area at the start. Explore every corner, people.

And when you said Being Thief 2 has just been released, you weren't kidding. It's 4 hours old as I type this.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Finally finished Widow's Ire. Whew, this was a chore.

# Both missions are huge and labyrinthine in design, and manage to convey the Thief 1/Gold spirit and atmosphere perfectly.
# And yet, for its size, it feels kinda empty. There are very few readables and no chit-chat between NPCs.
# The objectives, and how to complete them, are vague and unclear. It took me quite a while to realize where the exit in both missions is, and I went on a massive trek in the second mission on the blind faith that I had yet to find the main objective... fortunately I was correct.
# Both missions are challenging, so I don't recommend them for the novice thief. The first mission will have you searching every nook and cranny to meet the loot count, the second one will have you dealing with some very clever guard positioning.
# There are lots of bugs that need to be sorted out. This FM could do with a second look from the author to clean it up. Fortunately the author has promised to do just that when he releases his next mission.
# There are Easter Eggs in the second mission, 3 in total. I found the first one (stash of mines) but the other two eluded me, though I have a pretty good idea where one of them is located. Sadly, by that point I just didn't care anymore and wanted this over with.
# Overall I'd give it a 7/10, with high chances of it jumping to 8/10 once the bugs and such get sorted out.

 

[JarlFrank]

I also recommend playing it on hard rather than expert, or even normal, due to the high loot requirements leading to many occasions of frustrating searching. I like challenging Thief missions and exploration, but I don't really enjoy searching for that last bit of loot after everything else is completed, so not playing on expert makes this a much less frustrating experience and lets the strengths of the mission shine more.

Also, holy shit, Being Thief 2... gotta check this one out, if it's half as huge as the trailer suggested it'll be awesome.

 

[skacky]

It took me 3 hours and a half to finish Being Thief 2. :D

 

[Melan]

I almost always play missions on Hard, since except for some exceptions, mission authors tend to put Expert loot goals and objectives unreasonably high. If I played on expert, I'd probably rate missions lower than I usually do.

I've been spending most of the day playing Being Thief 2. It is really Life of the Party squared, but sometimes, that feels like too much of a good thing. A lot of time is spent walking across the same territory again and again, and after a while, it starts to feel more like a commute than an excursion. Plus if you lose a needle, it is a huge haystack. When NewDark was released, I wrote somewhere that the lack of limits may become a bigger problem than people would care to admit. It feels a bit like that with this mission.

 

[JarlFrank]

I want to play it but first I will finish the last mission I started. It's okay, but not very good, since the author has made many mistakes that seem to be common in FMs of inexperienced authors.

The mission is Off to Milhorn Manor from 2011, which offers a huge mansion to rob and a pinch of mystery. It is quite promising, but it could be much better than it is right now, due to many bad design mistakes. Firstly, some places are just too large. The sewers have you swim through long canals that take ages to traverse because of their length, the manor's courtyard is really large and really empty, and oh boy, I don't think I've ever seen that many guards per square metre in any other mission, in the inner garden I saw about 5 guards and 5 servants at once. NPC density is way too high.
Secondly, the basement. Oh gods the basement. Long, almost labyrinthine hallways that look exactly the same. There is no variation there. It's all similar-looking hallways and the basement has some items in some rooms that you need to find in order to progress... well, too bad navigating the basement is confusing as hell as it all looks the same. At least the author has included a map to make it a little easier.

This mission isn't all bad, it just suffers from a lot of design flaws. Would rate it 5/10 or something.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I've finished the first half of Being Thief 2. I wouldn't say that it's Life of the Party squared. In fact I'd say it's about equal in size to LoTP, but BT2 uses its area much better. In terms of gameplay it is almost classical Thief 2, no Undead or supernatural elements at all (in fact, the only animal I found was a dead rat) though some places are pretty creepy-looking.

I agree with Melan that there is too much trekking back and forth. On purpose. Let me give you a rundown: One objective involves tracking down a missing girl. While looking for this girl you quickly hear about another missing girl, who can be found quite easily. However, she holds a vital clue + item towards finding the first lost girl, but they won't be made available until you read a letter about the second lost girl, which just so happens to be located an... inconvenient distance away. Then it's off to find the first lost girl who is located an even greater inconvenient distance away.

For a city mission, BT2 (Part 1) is very solid, and has an amazingly customizable difficulty level: Optional objectives are presented to you at the start as "jobs", and you can pick and choose which ones to do. The loot objective is optional at Expert level, but to meet it you have to find ALL THE LOOT. I only managed about 90% before turning in the mission.

EDIT: Had a go at Mission 2. Holy shit how could he screw this up so badly? Take 25% of the mission 1 area, make it a ghosting mission full of guards and such, and then have it end by stowing away aboard the Cetus Amicus... again. Now I know that he hit a barrier in DromED that meant he had to split the mission up, but a 95/5 division is a joke. He's better off simply NOT having made the second mission, especially since I couldn't find anyplace aboard the sub that constituted a "safe" place.

 

[JarlFrank]

Just started it. Wow. It's beautiful, it's freaking huge, and it offers many different paths through the level - streets, sewers, rooftops, ledges... and many semi-hidden areas with loot to find which really encourages exploration. Going everywhere is rewarding, as often you will find small loot pieces hidden somewhere (like some money stuck to a door at a place you can only reach with a rope arrow, a coin at the floor at a place you can only reach by walking along a narrow ledge, a ring in a flowerpot outside a window... tons of stuff like that) and there are just so many ways to access some places. It really gave me some wow moments.

 

[skacky]

Levels that were created before NewDark appeared (around summer 2012 iirc) were not intended to be played with the new mantling system.

 

[JarlFrank]

It's not cheating, more like... enhanced exploration.

(When I replayed Thief Gold and Thief 2 with NewDark, I managed to reach a lot of previously unreachable places at the level borders; it's pretty cool actually)

 

[Azazel]

I've been spending most of the day playing Being Thief 2. It is really Life of the Party squared, but sometimes, that feels like too much of a good thing. A lot of time is spent walking across the same territory again and again, and after a while, it starts to feel more like a commute than an excursion. Plus if you lose a needle, it is a huge haystack. When NewDark was released, I wrote somewhere that the lack of limits may become a bigger problem than people would care to admit. It feels a bit like that with this mission.

I may not be able to finish this mission for this reason. It's breathtaking in scope, but the constant unpickable doors combined with the sheer size of the geometry leads to a frustrating time sink.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Yeah, that is another negative point about Being Thief 2, it has LOADS of windows and doors, and sometimes you can't tell from a distance if they're frobbable or not. This is usually not a problem for the doors, but with the windows it's a pain in the neck.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yeah, that is another negative point about Being Thief 2, it has LOADS of windows and doors, and sometimes you can't tell from a distance if they're frobbable or not. This is usually not a problem for the doors, but with the windows it's a pain in the neck.

Yeah, I rope arrowed successfully up to the ledge with the upper front window of the library, only to find that the front window is unopenable. Many openable windows have exactly the same texture as the openable ones.

 

[Icewater]

Yeah, I rope arrowed successfully up to the ledge with the upper front window of the library, only to find that the front window is unopenable.

I did the same damn thing. Thought for sure it was the right one, was very disappointed after I went to all the trouble of getting up there.

 

[General_Norris]

I beat Thief II somewhat recently and really liked it so I decided to give some fan missions a whirl, beating Thief 2X (Very well made, but lacking in tension and challenge) and The Art of Thievery (Has a completely absurd architecture, but it's very good gameplay-wise) so this thread has given me a lot of pointers to try more, thanks! Do you guys have any campaign recommendations? I tend to like missions with plenty of mechanist machines like the original First City Bank so if you know some good ones that focus on that aspect, I would love to hear if you recommend them.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Based on your post, I would suggest at least looking into "Keeper of the Prophecies". It's a grand campaign (9 missions AFAIK) and features the Mechanists as the antagonists, though the Hammerites also get a little time as well, IIRC. The problem is that it's too grand, too big in scale.

 

[General_Norris]

Hey, thanks for the recommendation, I'll check it out once I finish the missions I'm already playing! I think I know what you mean with the "too grand, too big in scale", it's very common in game design and fan missions but I hope I'll like it anyways.

I'm also going to try and write a bit about the missions I play. Seems like a good thing to do.

 

[Melan]

Keeper of the Prophecies was very enjoyable for me, but it is an acquired taste and often very odd. Don't expect it to feel like the other missions you have played.

Being Thief is currently on its second mission, and both are heavy on the mechanists. They are not problem-free (the first has a very hard stealth objective and the second is sometimes too vast for its own good), but they are pleasantly non-linear, and might be enjoyable for you.

 

[General_Norris]

I just beat Heist Society, which is very good and quite thematic. It reminds me a lot of Masks, which is a great thing because I thought Masks would have been one of the best missions of the oirignal game had it not suffered the misfortune of being split in two. There are two caveats, though:

1) It doesn't have any high-security area like the top floor of Masks, which had several Iron Beasts on patrol. This means the mission lacks a big climax.
2) It leans more heavily on secrets since you need to find at least two to finish the level and one is pretty though because it requires frobbing a normally purely decorative item.

Other than that, it's pretty great, I enjoyed it. Now I'm free to try Keeper of the Prophecies.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yeah Heist Society is one of my favourite mansion missions, really solid stuff.

I think you might enjoy Amoral Dilemma. Try it. It's got city streets, a mansion, a police department and a hammerite church.

 

[General_Norris]

I've beaten the first missions of Keeper of the Prophecies and I have to admit I'm not liking it much, if at all. More than being huge, the missions feel dull and aim-less there's nothing pushing you towards areas of interest and with rooms being so empty and guards paths being so predictable, exploration isn't that fun either. This aimlessness is exacerbated by the fairly rigid idea of what you should be doing, it's easy to find yourself finding locked rooms with no idea of what key (if any) you have to find and stuff like "the Master Key is near the Thief's corpse after taking a broken lift, then diving and then climbing an underground tower with rope arrows" doesn't really help matters.

I've also noticed that the guards have been made artificially dumb. There are many things that can improve Thief, but making the guards dumber is not one of them. Having them face the walls of a narrow passage so you can blackjack them isn't that fun, really.

Still, it surely seems the levels are getting better. The first was dumb, huge and blocky but "Hallucination" while rough and ugly looks like a city and has some detail on it. At least it seems more well-thought even if you can break the mission by being in the wrong place at the wrong time like in those old Sierra adventure games.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I agree with what you say. I found the KotP campaign to have a lot of potential, but not much of that potential surfaces. If things improve later on in the campaign, then the first three or four levels kinda ruin the experience.

I made it as far as the cathredal level - the sheer size of it is something that has to be seen.

 

[skacky]

Sadly no, things do not really improve later on.