The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

[SoupNazi]

What I'm saying is that even for people who do mind, to say that the cut-scenes are enough to argue for HL/HL2 not being good games is retarded.

It's enough to argue it's not the greatest FPS game of all time.

 

[villain of the story]

They are still cutscenes, whether it's a fixed angle/railed or with illusion of relative freedom of looking around. It's not like you can walk out on a cutscene, do shit in the world and come back or change anything.

The only difference between traditional cutscenes and HL-way of cutscenes is the immersion factor. And some of you are retarded enough to think that it matters. It's ok to like that immersive illusion of freedom more but it's absolutely retarded to suggest that it's not a cutscene.

And Morgoth delivers again on being the most retarded person again with his Skyrim example. Yes, you can follow that mudcrab around for 30 minutes but you can alter the course of events at any given moment. You are fucking moron, Morgoth.

 

[villain of the story]

You can disagree all you want, but ultimately, there are people who disliked the scenes even on their first play through. I got sick of them right after I got to Kleiner's lab and prayed for a way to skip them ever since. In the end, the fact that they're unskippable is simply bad design. Personally, I found them even worse than normal cutscenes because the game sort of "teases" you in trying to make it seem as if the whole thing was still interactive. Hell, it even demands you do trivial shit like pull switches and walk into places and if you don't, the stupid scene won't progress, so you can't even go make a coffee or something like you can in other games with shitty, non-interactive cutscenes.

The thing I absolutely love about traditional cutscenes is that you usually get a menu to watch them again so if you miss some stuff in one, you can rewatch it any moment from the menu.

That's also one of the changes I despised in LoK series. Blood Omen had numerous beautifully done CG cutscenes. They were very stylish and were well written. Then came the in-game cutscene travesty which not only looked like shit and took away nuance with blocky models and shitty animations but it also took away the option to watch them again. I would have liked to be able to watch all the cutscenes from a menu in SR, SR2 and Defiance for some of the dialogues. IIRC, SR2 and Defiance had a cutscene menu again but they only included pre-rendered cutscenes (ie. cutscenes made with in-game graphics but pre-rendered and recorded) and the ratio of in-game to pre-rendered cutscenes in those latter games were like 20:1.

Thank you modern gaming. You are taking away our choices at every turn. In the meanwhile, we are left with utter morons who think HL > COD or whatever because they get to play some faggot with glasses and a lever who goes RAMBO! on the universe. LOL. So Intellectual! Sophisticated! Completely unheard of! Not like the common rabble at all, hmmmpff!

 

[Morgoth]

You are fucking moron, Morgoth.

It's "You are a fucking moron". Get at least the grammar right, you stupid fucking Fotze.

 

[Metro]

...but honestly, your first one or two times through the game you probably aren't thinking "this is so boring..."

Funny enough I did think that... although it was about the vehicle portions.

It's enough to argue it's not the greatest FPS game of all time.

It's arguably not even a pure FPS. In fact, forget the argument, it isn't a pure FPS.

 

[Carrion]

As far as railroad shooters go, HL and HL2 are pretty much the best there is. Great encounter design, flawless weapon balance, really good pacing, great atmosphere (especially in HL), lots of variety (especially in HL2) and enough room for tactics and creativity. One of the few games where it doesn't bother me that the entire game world is just one long corridor.

The "cutscenes" never really bothered me in HL2. Sure, some of them were a bit forced (like the stupid steel coffin part at the end), but I've played games with longer loading times than most of those scenes. Then again, I'm also a person who usually doesn't skip cutscenes even when they really suck.

 

[RRRrrr]

I don't see how the cut-scenes in half-life are interactive. You can't communicate or change anything at all. You can just move around while the cut-scene is happening and literally do nothing. I remember in HL1 not being able to kill NPCs during cutscenes and in HL2 not being able to fire at friendlies at all. Some interactivity there!
Being able to jump on NPCs heads and literally throw crates at them while they just keep talking breaking the immersion and destroying the illusion of interactivity a lot more than camera fixing on the NPCs face.

There are story portions where you need to solve puzzles, do a bit of platforming, etc. in between in order to continue, just as there are action sequences where people give story background. Which of these qualifies as a cutscene and why? And, if you're suggesting it's better to keep narrative compartmentalized rather than integrated into the play experience, do you also have anything to back that up in objective terms, or is that just personal preference stemming from the fact that you just want to shoot lots of aliens? Because in that case I'd say Half-Life really isn't your kind of game - try Serious Sam instead.

Yes, in Half-Life 2 there are definitely a few long sequences without much to do but bunny-hop around, and I totally agree that skipping them would have been great, but honestly, your first one or two times through the game you probably aren't thinking "this is so boring", you're paying attention and soaking in the characters and exposition. Is it deep? Of course not, but it's also presented well enough to be entertaining. Again, if you'd prefer a non-interactive movie to watch, that's fine as well, but if your argument is "it gets boring after I've played it ten times already" then I'm not really sure anything can help you.

So tell me: if Half-Life 2 did have a "skip story sequence" button, would you still have any outstanding complaints about the way it presents its narrative? Would you still be complaining about how Bink videos are better?

What the hell? As a matter of fact, I don't really enjoy combat in games that much, I prefer atmosphere and non-combat sequences. I didn't say that I want to skip sequences but that the game has cut-scenes that aren't in any way interactive.
If HL2 has any faults it's the few dialogues and non-combat sequences, not the other way round. For example the most memorable part of both games (for me) are the first 30 minutes before finding a crowbar and a pistol.
And HL series are overrated. It's not that they are bad, it's just that they have a disproportionate number of cult-followers compared to the actual quality of the game.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.>>>>HL2 in every way, btw.

 

[Roguey]

There's nothing to debate. Half-Life is a shit game. End of the line.

Agreed, but not the sequel and episodes which are some of the finest interactive roller coasters ever crafted.

 

[Infinitron]

It's arguably not even a pure FPS. In fact, forget the argument, it isn't a pure FPS.

What's it mixed with?

 

[Morgoth]

It's mixed with awesome, that's what it is.

And now, everybody shut the fuck up. I have the last word on this. Good night, gentlemen.

 

[villain of the story]

Interactive? LOL? Instead of a CG video, you get to press forward to get the experience. OMG so interactive.

 

[Roguey]

Interactive? LOL? Instead of a CG video, you get to press forward to get the experience. OMG so interactive.

If you're referring to my post, the interactive parts are when you're shooting things or driving or whatever, not the non-character-breaking ingame cutscenes.

 

[villain of the story]

In hindsight, the comparisons to COD series are extra lulzy because there's little difference between the two. HL wasn't half-bad at level design but HL2 is all about rails. Both are corridor shooters on rails. They only have different styles.

 

[Metro]

It's arguably not even a pure FPS. In fact, forget the argument, it isn't a pure FPS.

What's it mixed with?

Shitty puzzle solving and driving vignettes (HL2). If you want to call it an FP, fine.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I sometimes get the urge to replay HL2. Then I remember the driving sections, and it passes immediately.

 

[Icewater]

I sometimes get the urge to replay HL2.

Then I remember the driving sections, and I fire that baby up and start a new game quicker than you can blink.

Srsly, what's everyone's beef with the vehicles?

 

[Metro]

Tedious, uninteresting, and entirely too long? Especially for a purported first person shooter. It's funny, Duke Nukem Forever could have been a salvageable shooter but 60% or more of the time you're walking around in some scripted area, looking for items to advance the level, driving shitty monster trucks, driving shitty RC cars, etc. etc. When did shooting stop being an integral part to first person shooters?

 

[Metro]

What's even sadder is if you take out all that stupid filler/driving shit the game is maybe four hours long, max. I sat and watched the credits roll as they listed 200+ people responsible for that atrocity and think... hey... didn't like three people make Terraria?

 

[MetalCraze]

Which video are you talking about? The last one that was released was that E3 2011 demo, that was 15-20 mins long. Of course they wouldn't just show 20 min non-stop shooting, dumbfuck. This isn't a fucking Quake clone.

That's why they showed a 15 minutes long unskippable cutscene instead.
What's the most important part in a shooter? Watching tits for 15 minutes of course.

The fact that many Calll of Duty gamers think it's "boring" should tell you all you need to know about its qualiy.

Plz provide me a link to where this fact is being proven because this is the first time I read that CoD gamers don't like HL2.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I feel like I'm suffering from a hangover after having read this thread. Oh wait, I AM hungover. :-/

Tedious, uninteresting, and entirely too long? Especially for a purported first person shooter. It's funny, Duke Nukem Forever could have been a salvageable shooter but 60% or more of the time you're walking around in some scripted area, looking for items to advance the level, driving shitty monster trucks, driving shitty RC cars, etc. etc. When did shooting stop being an integral part to first person shooters?

I'm guessing that the original idea was to respond to criticism that shooters were too generic-bland-banal-shit-boring, because all you do is run around and shoot enemies. Then it got upgraded and you could shoot stuff as well and then, according to some of the opinions in this thread anyway, 3D Realms came along and ruined the whole thing by making Duke Nukem 3D, where there were in-game items that you could interact with. You could take a piss in the toilet... and then shoot it. You could shoot a game of pool in both terms of the word. You could get a stripper to show you her tits, and then shoot her. You could watch OJ running from the police on TV, then shoot it. Sure, the game gave you stuff to play with, but ultimately it was still a shooter. And none of the these little things mattered in the end, they were just there. DNF did it the other way around, which is why it was such a colossal failure.

Somewhere along the line that thought changed, however. Because almost every AAA-title being released nowadays is a FPS, there must be something more going on in the game than just running along and shooting enemies. I am reminded of Lo Wang's phrase "I'd rather kick ass than solve puzzle" in Shadow Warrior, and how far from that thought the FPS genre has strayed. This is one thing that you can blame HL for, it diluted the "purity" of FPS games by not only adding other elements into it, but by making it a de facto standard. The Build games experimented with the notion, but HL took it to a whole new level, and by HL2 the genre was past the Point of No Return.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Also, Prey did the Portal thing much better.

Not sure if trolling, but... lol?

If you're referring to the 1997 Quake 2 build of Prey, then yeah, it did. The retail version? No. The Prey portals were static, they only acted as doorways. They're only in the game to try and steal some of the "Portal" thunder that everybody knew about and were waiting for.

 

[Achilles]

The fact that many Calll of Duty gamers think it's "boring" should tell you all you need to know about its qualiy.

Plz provide me a link to where this fact is being proven because this is the first time I read that CoD gamers don't like HL2.

Certainly, I have several links in fact:

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28977154/half-life-2-is-overrated.-dull-game-poor-pacing.
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topi...some-game.-half-life-2-was-merely-a-good-game.
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25883658/half-life-and-half-life-2-are-far-overrated
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topi...more-awesome-than-half-life-episode-series-.-
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28802540/what-is-it-about-half-life-2-that-i-just-dont-get

 

[MetalCraze]

Holy crap - that's like all millions of CoD gamers there ololo. Cuz only dumb CoD gamers can't like the Deep Sophisticated Unique Perfection that is HL2

 

[Achilles]

@ Metalcraze: It's not perfect, but it is much better than all the CODs of this world.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Also, Prey did the Portal thing much better.

Not sure if trolling, but... lol?

If you're referring to the 1997 Quake 2 build of Prey, then yeah, it did. The retail version? No. The Prey portals were static, they only acted as doorways. They're only in the game to try and steal some of the "Portal" thunder that everybody knew about and were waiting for.

Trolling? In a troll thread? Why, I never!

But Prey is really one of the last, if not the last, FPS's I enjoyed.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I sometimes get the urge to replay HL2. Then I remember the driving sections, and it passes immediately.

I didn't mind the vehicles. I just hated Alyx to all hell. The guy from HL:Blue Shit was fine - at least he could look after himself, and they used the scripting to give a decent 'buddy cop film' feel to some of his parts in the revolution levels (you know, he busts the door open from the side so you get the drop on the enemies coming through, that sort of thing).

If they included a bit where you could use a vehicle to drive over Alyx, perma-killing her and giving you a choice of less irritating companions in the episodes, I think I'd be actively liking the vehicle sections.