The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

[Morgoth]

Yeah, not to mention, No HL, no Counterstrike or TF either.

Hence, not Battlederp and Call of Fags either. How do you like that now, horsie man?

 

[zerotol]

HL and opposing force are a lot better then HL2 and its episodes.

I can't believe people are talking about the story. In an FPS. Please.

 

[Medic]

Exactly, HL is the only occurrence in FPS where it's worth talking about story, that's why it's such a rare gem.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

the no cut scene approach

Because scripted events are totally not cutscenes.

and having a good story in a FPS

the other thing is that they pretty much introduced gravity use in games and spawned whole genre of games with gravity based weapons.

Really? Examples, please.

Also, Prey did the Portal thing much better.

The other thing is that they just know how to create an immersive game world,

Yeah, they excel at creating good tutorial levels.

interesting NPCs

"I am mysterious businessman G-Man and you like me because you have the mental capacity of a banana."

and best gameplay there is.

Running, shooting, climbing ladders, platform jumping, vehicle sections and box pushing. And scripted events, of course.

If you don't like it, go play CoD.

Nah, I think I'll play some more Alpha Protocol instead.

Yeah, not to mention, No HL, no Counterstrike or TF either.

Hence, not Battlederp and Call of Fags either. How do you like that now, horsie man?

Indifferent. Those are games I don't care about at all. Did you want to add something to the conversation or something?

 

[garren]

the other thing is that they pretty much introduced gravity use in games and spawned whole genre of games with gravity based weapons.

Really? Examples, please.

I can answer/link this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_gun

 

[Andyman Messiah]

the other thing is that they pretty much introduced gravity use in games and spawned whole genre of games with gravity based weapons.

Really? Examples, please.

I can answer/link this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_gun

I should have specified that I wanted examples of the "whole genre of games with gravity based weapons." Protip: one or two games where a gravity gun is included in the player's arsenal does not make a genre.

Still, I will grant that they managed to create one of the slowest ranged weapons of all time.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

GRAVITY ITSELF

 

[MetalCraze]

Half life 2 alone didn't change the FPS landscape, but the whole series did. One reason is the no cut scene approach and having a good story in a FPS, the other thing is that they pretty much introduced gravity use in games and spawned whole genre of games with gravity based weapons.

Actually HL was one of the first shooters to include unskippable cutscenes. Of course it had a minor number of them compared to the rest of the game and especially Episode 2 which has a lot of them.

I don't understand why fanboys shit on CoD and yet claim that HL has a no cutscene approach.

The other thing is that they just know how to create an immersive game world, interesting NPCs and best gameplay there is. If you don't like it, go play CoD.

LOL

 

[Wyrmlord]

Some quality in this thread, keep it up guys.

Who is the troll? Half Life fans or those not too impressed with Half Life?

 

[sea]

It made the FPS landscape use green/brown/grey colours a fuckton more!

Fuck yeah.

Actually HL was one of the first shooters to include unskippable cutscenes. Of course it had a minor number of them compared to the rest of the game and especially Episode 2 which has a lot of them.

I don't understand why fanboys shit on CoD and yet claim that HL has a no cutscene approach.

It's still generally better than non-interactive cinematic sequences. If you could skip them I wouldn't have a problem with it. Of course, if you play the game seven times over then I guess any unskippable cutscenes are going to get pretty unbearable.

 

[MetalCraze]

HL cutscenes are less interactive than CoD's ones.

Take HL. First you watch an unskippable cutscene that shows you Black Mesa and you can barely move - in fact you literally ride on rails there.
Then you have a cutscene where scientists do an experiment. It takes like 30 fucking minutes before you finally kill you first mudcrab - and not because you were going around talking to people or exploring the gameworld, but because NPCs and props were doing a linear sequence you were forced to watch.

And then you have an Episode 2 where HL stops being a shooter almost completely and becomes a cameraman-filming-3d-chick simulation game which is not far from CoD.

 

[Medic]

the no cut scene approach

Because scripted events are totally not cutscenes.

and having a good story in a FPS

the other thing is that they pretty much introduced gravity use in games and spawned whole genre of games with gravity based weapons.

Really? Examples, please.

Also, Prey did the Portal thing much better.

The other thing is that they just know how to create an immersive game world,

Yeah, they excel at creating good tutorial levels.

interesting NPCs

"I am mysterious businessman G-Man and you like me because you have the mental capacity of a banana."

and best gameplay there is.

Running, shooting, climbing ladders, platform jumping, vehicle sections and box pushing. And scripted events, of course.

If you don't like it, go play CoD.

Nah, I think I'll play some more Alpha Protocol instead.

Yeah, not to mention, No HL, no Counterstrike or TF either.

Hence, not Battlederp and Call of Fags either. How do you like that now, horsie man?

Indifferent. Those are games I don't care about at all. Did you want to add something to the conversation or something?

Games with gravity manipulation like Doom 3, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, Bioshock and a billion platformers, we get to say that Valve started it just because they got to be first.
If you don't find HL immersive then I don't know the cure, seriously. NPC's are very well written for a FPS of course, I don't remember even slightly interesting characters showing up in many other shooters, especially not before HL. I'm also talking shooters, not Deus Ex, Bioshock or other hybrids. HL games also feature nicely done cooperation with NPCs as they are usually not annoying and it feels worthwhile helping them.
As for gameplay, it's what every FPS has, but Valve gets to make it more fluid and feeling natural, just more interesting than most of other games.

Finally, striders? come on, those are one of the best designed monster enemies in FPS history.

 

[Metro]

The vehicle sections are enough to make HL2 a mediocre game at best.

 

[Metro]

I don't remember even slightly interesting characters showing up in many other shooters, especially not before HL. I'm also talking shooters, not Deus Ex, Bioshock or other hybrids. HL games also feature nicely done cooperation with NPCs as they are usually not annoying and it feels worthwhile helping them.
As for gameplay, it's what every FPS has, but Valve gets to make it more fluid and feeling natural, just more interesting than most of other games.
Finally, striders? come on, those are one of the best designed monster enemies in FPS history.

Half Life is every bit of a hybrid as those games. There's just as much dicking around with puzzles as there is shooting in any Half Life game.

 

[MetalCraze]

There were well written NPCs in Half Life? Hahahahaha

Gordong please push that crystal into that ray - SO DEEP

And Deus Ex doesn't count cuz it's a hybrid of a shooter and a good design

 

[Oriental European]

Gabe Newell accidentally ate a whole cake.

Half-Life 2 was a really disappointing experience for me. In the beginning you just walk and listen to all that talking n talking n talking. Then you stack some boxes, move some things, shoot boring humanoid enemies and boring and annoying fliers with boring pistol. Then come the worst parts: boat, buggy, crane. Fuckin crane brah. I remember very well pain in my middle finger on my left hand, from pushing the W button all the time. Those stops for puzzles and some lame shooting are boring as fuck, enemies are stupid as fuck. Puzzles simple as fuck. That whole boat ride is in my fucking nightmares, it's killing me with boredom. The only fight that i've remembered and was kinda intense is a fight under the bridge versus bunch of combines and a gunship. But it was so brief, it was probably a hallucination caused by boredom.

Strength of HL wasn't in characters and their blabbering, it was the whole setting and actions that you had do perform in that world. Underground research facility, scientists and security, mysterious government man in suit, catastrophe, aliens and soldiers, gadgets and buttons. And YOU, knee deep in all of this moving forward and up.

Also, dem visuals and sound in 1998 brah.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's still generally better than non-interactive cinematic sequences.

Why do people always say this. What's the difference between a non-interactive cutscene, and an interactive one, where the 'interactive' part only boils down to you jumping around the whole damn place, doing retarded shit like putting crates on people's heads with the gravity gun, waiting for the BLABLABLA part to finish?

 

[RRRrrr]

I don't see how the cut-scenes in half-life are interactive. You can't communicate or change anything at all. You can just move around while the cut-scene is happening and literally do nothing. I remember in HL1 not being able to kill NPCs during cutscenes and in HL2 not being able to fire at friendlies at all. Some interactivity there!
Being able to jump on NPCs heads and literally throw crates at them while they just keep talking breaking the immersion and destroying the illusion of interactivity a lot more than camera fixing on the NPCs face.

 

[MetalCraze]

It's not meant to be a fucking RPG. I don't care if it's a linear sequence. The beginning where you take the tram to Black Mesa and then do the lab experiment which results in the resonance cascade is the perfect setup for the rest of the game where you are trying to fight your way out. I don't care that I can't wander around aimlessly. That isn't the point of the game.

How about the "SKIP" button?

Especially if you start the game anew or simply couldn't care less about the story in a shooter

Can Valve innovate "SKIP" button into HL, bro?

 

[MetalCraze]

HL is not the type of game to just pick up and play for some quick action. It's a game with a story, structure and style that you have to enjoy. That's why it's deeper and better than other shooters.

 

[Luzur]

and here i hoped a certain someone finally got their thumb out of their ass and got to coding the damn end of the series so i can finally put it to rest.

 

[Wyrmlord]

if you are starting a game of HL1 it generally means that you are going to be spending quite some time on the game and thus are better off getting personally invested in the story because you will enjoy it better that way.

I see. But do you really feel Half Life is actually a long game?

I can understand you saying the same thing about Baldur's Gate 2 - that since it's a long game, no point in rushing to the endgame, and better to stop and try other smaller elements of the game on the long road to the end.

Either way, being personally invested in a shooter's story is an idea that is rather embarrassing by itself. Because it's a shooter!

 

[Morgoth]

Shooters aren't just about shooting stuff these days anymore, Wyrmie. It's about creating an environment that has it's own ecosystem, simulations and coherent world structure/lore/history.

It's about immersion (yeah yeah), and narrative by environmental clues (sound, AI, graphics).

But even today, most shooters don't get that. That is why HL or Deus Ex are still such a rare breed.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Pshaw! No, shooters are about shooting stuff and have always been. At least when they are GOOD shooters that are actually enjoyable.

When they are about "narrative" and "immersion", they are about creating wastes of time that allow gaming journalists to legitimise their non-jobs. All you are really doing is pressing W key and moving the mouse around to watch an in-game cinematic.

Unfortunately, there may be times when I am inclined to budget my time. If I see that I have to spend 5-10 minutes watching an in-game cinematic, I realize I am better off spending 5-10 minutes finishing a quick session of Age of Wonders or Heroes of Might and Magic. So that's when I shut down the pseudo-movie mid-cinematic and play HoMM or AoW.

Life is too short to play pseudo-movies.

 

[Morgoth]

There are no cutscenes in HL2, Wyrmie. In those 5-10 minutes, lots of stuff can happen, but nthat depends on you, the player.

Pshaw! But what does a stupid Indian kid like you know about these things?