The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

[Infinitron]

It's quite simple.

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The only thing in all of Half Life that comes close to the Call of Duty-esque stuff is when you have to climb into a pod in the Citadel.

 

[Tel Velothi]

It's quite simple.
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fix'd

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, that too.

 

[DwarvenFood]

HL2 was a huge disappointment for me, I really enjoyed HL1 and was looking forward to part 2 and the new engine. Sure, the whole gravity thing was cool, but it could not carry the game. After using the hovercraft for a bit, having to push some crates in order to be able to make a jump.. not too long after that I just gave up on the game. And back then I was not picky about my games at all, let alone about major titles like that. HL3 should not be about gimmicks and go back into being an immersive atmospheric FPS.

 

[Metro]

The only thing in all of Half Life that comes close to the Call of Duty-esque stuff is when you have to climb into a pod in the Citadel.

 

[Infinitron]

The only thing in all of Half Life that comes close to the Call of Duty-esque stuff is when you have to climb into a pod in the Citadel.

This is exposition, not a KOOL DYNAMIC ACTION SEQUENCE.
It's not like any mouth-breathing fanboys are pumping their fists during these segments.

 

[Metro]

Aren't they?!

 

[Menckenstein]

I like to sit back and remember a simpler time, when you could work HL2 fanboys up into a foam-mouthed frenzy just by posting this pic

 

[Andyman Messiah]

I like to sit back and remember a simpler time, when you could work HL2 fanboys up into a foam-mouthed frenzy just by posting this pic

Man, water levels suck.

Also what the fuck happened to Sam Fisher exactly? Is he still wearing his awesome goggles?

 

[villain of the story]

Last I saw, he was slowlly walking towards the camera looking totally cool and badass while stuff were exploded into heavens behind him in a trailder for Double Agent. That's when I realised that Double Agent would be a piece of shit not even worth checking out.

And that earlier example from HL1: it's ok because that kid of stuff has been around for a long time and it doesn't force you to sit and watch some bullshit like that in HL2. But let's not practice selective memory, HL had its own share of cutscenes. CUTSCENES. Like when you're being carried off by special ops guys. But what's wrong with them? That you can't skip them. So stop sucking Gabe's cock.

 

[DraQ]

But Shadow Warrior had a better selection that was far more satisfying to use.

Shadow Warrior had a nice selection, but HL arsenal was more realistic and had such stuff as Gauss gun that could fire through walls if charged enough raping everyone beyond with spalling, organic weapons, laser guided rockets (ok, SW had nukapult) and generally stuff useful for varied purposes.

HL2's weapons also felt more satisfying. Especially the combine assault rifle.

LOLWUT.

Ok, pulse rifle was nice, but it was essentially a fancy machinegun with fancy altfire. Other weapons were mostly boring and there were very few of them.

They didn't integrate seamlessly because when it's gameplay, you can just push forward. Also you can shoot shit.

So, is riding an elevator a cutscene? Should all elevators be replaced with teleport because you could get back to running around killing things faster?

It's fine in some cases where there's no requirement for talking, but when ALL the NPCs go on tangents and tell you a shitload of stuff, it's so badly immersion breaking that the character never replies that no "never depart from the PCs perspective" shtick can save it.

Odd, I remember mentioning never departing from player's perspective as positive thing in my post, but I can't remember posting about that whole "silent protagonist" shtick.

 

[SoupNazi]

No, riding an elevator is not a cutscene. But. Yes, riding an elevator when overdone is a chore. See Mass Effect.

 

[DraQ]

No, riding an elevator is not a cutscene. But. Yes, riding an elevator when overdone is a chore. See Mass Effect.

Wasn't it basically a disguised loading screen in Ass Defect?
(Haven't really played, neobiowhore games are not really my thing, might have fished ME1 out of the bargain bin sometime, but the revelation about huge jelly man in 2 made me not want to.)

 

[villain of the story]

Yes it was a loading screen in disguise in ME.

Nothing wrong with riding an elevator as a functional part of a level. It becomes a problem when developers decide to use it as a cutscene to advance the story in a banal shit boring way that you can't skip.

Speaking of elevatırs, the heavy maintenance lift that slowly ascended while mudcrabs and shit rained on you was a novel segment. It was tense the first time I played it.

And about weapons, realism can suck my ass. But yes, HL1 had a more diverse selection than HL2.

 

[SoupNazi]

Yeah, it was a loading screen. What I was saying though is that anything can be a problem if there's too much. I don't mind short bouts of time where the player is stripped of control, or cutscene where AWESOME stuff happens. Ironically, I prefer the QTE scene from Call of Duty someone here posted to the standing around waiting for shitty dialogue to finish so that I can press a button in-game. At least what's going on in CoD is sort of exciting. You know your cutscenes are shit when the most exciting thing happening in them is some alien mudcrab jumping into a vent.

Edit: and villain, that shit about the elevator ride better be sarcasm. That part was insufferable. It was probably worse than that Ravenholm part where you shoot down zombies from a roof while waiting for that dumb ass funicular to arrive (especially considering you could easily jump over the damn fence if there wasn't an invisible wall).

 

[DraQ]

I prefer the QTE scene

hlep my brian ih tink i borke it

 

[Lyric Suite]

The first Half Life was a great game. Maybe it was one of those "you had to be there" things but i don't think so. The sequel was pretty banal shit boring but the first one was actually excellent, by FPS standards of course.

 

[Infinitron]

Again, "standing around waiting for shitty dialogue to finish" is your exposition scene. It's a basic necessity of any story.
And why is reading walls of texts in an RPG considered , but having three or four dialogue scenes in your game so awful?

 

[Metro]

Because one is an RPG and the other is an (alleged) FPS?

 

[Infinitron]

I think HL1 was better because the experience of travelling throughout the doomed Black Mesa facility, shooting your way through aliens, zombies and marines as you traversed those narrow corridors, was somehow more (dare I say it) epic than HL2's cross-country adventure.
The alternate perspective you got in the HL1 expansions (with the entire place being nuked at the end) also helped make Black Mesa that much more iconic.

I guess you could say HL1 benefited by giving off a kind of dungeon crawler vibe which was lacking in the sequel.

 

[SoupNazi]

It's an FPS, the dialogue is shit, the characters are boring, it doesn't engage me in the slightest. The story is boring. In (good) RPGs the things characters say are important and pertinent to what I'm gonna do next in the game. If a villain in an RPG has a long winded speech about his plan it's usually so I can then think of a way to dismantle it, and I realize what my character's motivation for doing so is...

In Half-Life 2 I knew from the very beginning I would have to shoot up the Citadel eventually, and after that shitty scene in the sarcophagus, listen to Dr. Breen about whom I did not care about at all (in fact the whole premise was kind of retarded) and then I had to shoot balls at some portal. WTF? That whole segment would have been 100% better if I just reached his office using the super gravity gun and then had an epic boss shootout with some uber-alien that Breen would have as his bodyguard, or something. None of that "exposition" was necessary, it was clear Breen was a misguided idiot trying to defect in order to save his own ass. From the very beginning. The character wasn't interesting.

Debating with the Master in Fallout, as much as far-fetched it was in how easy it was to convince him to self-destruct, was engaging and interesting, and since he wasn't so exposed as the main villain, it was exhaustingly interesting to finally find out what's it all about.

All the dialogue in Half-Life 2 could have been done through some kind of a commlink or whatever like other FPS games do and it would have been far better. Hell even in Deus Ex a lot of the flavor text is delivered via commlink, and only when there are important things to say are you engaged in a dialogue-cutscene. AND there at least you have a choice about what you say instead of just standing there like a mute dumbass while shit goes on around you and you can't affect it at all - despite being the person everything revolves about.

 

[SoupNazi]

Imagine if every god damn time someone was to tell you something in Deus Ex, all you could do was run around them (while they awkwardly turned around to face you) and listen.

Morgan Everett: I trust you've been able to find yourself a place within the organization?
JC Denton: *Runs around to test how fast can Everett turn*
Morgan Everett: All through the proper intermediaries, of course.
JC Denton: *Jumps on some boxes*
Morgan Everett: We have a great number of... agencies, who in turn operate other agencies. Boxes stacked one in another. They'll need to be reactivated, but we never touch anything directly. We only influence. Suggest. Insinuate.
JC Denton: *Picks up a box and throws it at Everett*
Morgan Everett: The long night is over. The crown of government is tarnished - but that will fade in time. The riots, a fever dream; the plague, a horrible nightmare; and like everything else that's happened such things will only be dimly remembered upon waking to their normal lives. In the end, all sins are forgiven. Even yours.
JC Denton: *Stacks crates next to Everett*
Morgan Everett: The Constructor and Helios? Do you really think they're ready for that? After everything you've seen, everything you've done?
JC Denton: [long pause] *Jumps from the stack of crates onto Everett's head*
Morgan Everett: Not yet. But soon. We have made our own mistakes, became insulated from the world we sought to control. And whatever they may think, the night is far from over. But that will change, and you will help us change even as we teach you. This time - this time we will do it right.
JC Denton: *Gets bored, runs around again*
Morgan Everett: We are the Invisible Hand. We are the Illuminati. We come before and after. We are forever. And eventually... eventually we will lead them into the day.
JC Denton: *Runs around some more*
Morgan Everett: You're a quiet one, aren't you?

 

[Infinitron]

The story isn't boring. It's just simple. Simple but well-told. But if you can accept nothing less than MCA-type writing for a storyline, than yeah, no shooter is going to satisfy you in that department, obviously.

Imagine if every god damn time someone was to tell you something in Deus Ex, all you could do was run around them (while they awkwardly turned around to face you) and listen.

Morgan Everett: I trust you've been able to find yourself a place within the organization?
JC Denton: *Runs around to test how fast can Everett turn*
Morgan Everett: All through the proper intermediaries, of course.
JC Denton: *Jumps on some boxes*
Morgan Everett: We have a great number of... agencies, who in turn operate other agencies. Boxes stacked one in another. They'll need to be reactivated, but we never touch anything directly. We only influence. Suggest. Insinuate.
JC Denton: *Picks up a box and throws it at Everett*
Morgan Everett: The long night is over. The crown of government is tarnished - but that will fade in time. The riots, a fever dream; the plague, a horrible nightmare; and like everything else that's happened such things will only be dimly remembered upon waking to their normal lives. In the end, all sins are forgiven. Even yours.
JC Denton: *Stacks crates next to Everett*
Morgan Everett: The Constructor and Helios? Do you really think they're ready for that? After everything you've seen, everything you've done?
JC Denton: [long pause] *Jumps from the stack of crates onto Everett's head*
Morgan Everett: Not yet. But soon. We have made our own mistakes, became insulated from the world we sought to control. And whatever they may think, the night is far from over. But that will change, and you will help us change even as we teach you. This time - this time we will do it right.
JC Denton: *Gets bored, runs around again*
Morgan Everett: We are the Invisible Hand. We are the Illuminati. We come before and after. We are forever. And eventually... eventually we will lead them into the day.
JC Denton: *Runs around some more*
Morgan Everett: You're a quiet one, aren't you?

Oh, I understand. You're one of those poor souls who suffer from chronic Immersion Rejection Syndrome. My condolences.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I have never ever heard of these games.

you have never heard of rise of the triad shadow warrior or redneck rampage?

you dont deserve to be a member of the codex

I wasn't much into gaming in the 1990s. Outside of games that nearly everyone would have played - Heretic, Doom, Hexen,.etc - I wasn't really what you would call a "gamer". No TV set at home (still the case) meant I wasn't much of a movie-viewer or show-watcher either.

I am not so well acquainted with this whole pop culture thing, as recent John Carpenter threads would make you understand.

I didn't see those John Carpenter threads, but the fact that you associate Carpenter with the 90s (rather than the 70s/80s) confirms your story

 

[villain of the story]

Again, "standing around waiting for shitty dialogue to finish" is your exposition scene. It's a basic necessity of any story.
And why is reading walls of texts in an RPG considered , but having three or four dialogue scenes in your game so awful?

No, it's not a basic necessity for anything. It's just a device that is mistreated by excited neckbeard developers thinking they are doing awesome cute cool funny stuff when they are being retarded. "Lammar! Those are sensitive and expensive stuff". Lammar: a braindead fucking headcrab. OH BUT I GET IT ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY COMIC RELIEF HO HO HO HO. What the fuck am I playing? A FPS with allegations of a story or a fucking family sitcom? FFS. And it lasts so long!