The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[dnf]

Why are niggas hatin on Carmack ITT

Because Edgydiums. Im lucky enough to have liked all Carmack ID games, tough i played then on reverse order (PS port of Quake 2, Doom 3, Quake 1 and 2 HD and Brutal Doom 1 & 2). Still need to play Rage so i can

 

[DraQ]

DraQ I'm starting to get the impression that you're singling out my posts even if you got nothing of value to say.

I live by adage that my reply must at least match the value of the post I'm responding to.

So when I don't have anything interesting to say it leaves me with but few options.

Quake2 is one of the best FPS ever made.

 

[buzz]

Man, fuck Doom 4, fuck id software and fuck Carmack!
How about a nice cup of Hexen III, Strife 2 or maybe Blood III?

 

[Excidium]

Man, fuck Doom 4, fuck id software and fuck Carmack!
How about a nice cup of Hexen III, Strife 2 or maybe Blood III?

How about a nice cup of my fists on your face

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

DOOM novels???

BOOM BOOM BOOM DAKKA DAKKA BLAMO
BLAM BLAM BLAM SPLAT
GRUNT GROAN SCREECH
BOOM RELOAD KABLOOIE, said the Marine.
Bam waagh dakka boom unholy shit
Du dun du dun dun duuuu duuuh duuu dun dun dun dun dun

End of chapter 1

Written by George RR Martin

 

[tuluse]

BOOM BOOM BOOM DAKKA DAKKA BLAMO
BLAM BLAM BLAM SPLAT
GRUNT GROAN SCREECH
BOOM RELOAD KABLOOIE, said the Marine.
Bam waagh dakka boom unholy shit
Du dun du dun dun duuuu duuuh duuu dun dun dun dun dun

End of chapter 1

Written by George RR Martin

go on...

 

[Haba]

[--] potentially interesting plot, capable of elevating the game way above "hurr IMMA blowing the demons with my SHOTGUN!!!1" of Doom, without necessarily sacrificing any gameplay.

Oh sweet Jesus, we actually have people that believe this? Codex has become a parody of itself.

 

[shihonage]

Remember, DraQ prefers Unreal 1 to Quake2 because of its superior erm, storytelling, methods. He's an odd fella, this DraQ.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

All I want is an insane shooter that makes me shit my pants with tension due to huge numbers of enemies on screen at once because I picked up the fucking blue keycard.

On a side note, how awesome would it be for us to get a WH40K Ork FPS styled game?

 

[Morgoth]

Remember, DraQ prefers Unreal 1 to Quake2 because of its superior erm, storytelling, methods. He's an odd fella, this DraQ.

No, it's general consensus that Unreal is simply the better game. It wiped the floor with Quake 2 when it came out. As did Half Life (imo the best FPS ever).

DooM is just a random mess with no goal, no structure, nothing that it can excel at. That was cool back then in the 90s, but not today. Besides, the whole premise of DooM is a paradox. It wants to be scary, but at the same time it allows you to wield near omnipotent power with ridiculously powerful weapons.

 

[Excidium]

Remember, DraQ prefers Unreal 1 to Quake2 because of its superior erm, storytelling, methods. He's an odd fella, this DraQ.

No, it's general consensus that Unreal is simply the better game. It wiped the floor with Quake 2 when it came out. As did Half Life (imo the best FPS ever).

lmao

 

[shihonage]

No, it's general consensus that Unreal is simply the better game. It wiped the floor with Quake 2 when it came out. As did Half Life (imo the best FPS ever).

DooM is just a random mess with no goal, no structure, nothing that it can excel at. That was cool back then in the 90s, but not today. Besides, the whole premise of DooM is a paradox. It wants to be scary, but at the same time it allows you to wield near omnipotent power with ridiculously powerful weapons.

GB2RPS

 

[Angthoron]

Quake 2: Dumb AI, grey and brown, boxes everywhere.
Unreal 1: Not.

If you like your women dumb, your colours blending perfectly with Codex default theme, and have a box fetish, Quake 2 wins hands down.

But seriously, Q2 is basically a "more of the same" game that follows the normal id formula of old. If that's what you wanted from a game, it worked perfectly. On the other hand, Unreal was the game that finally persuaded me to take a look at the FPS genre more closely, l2use mouselook and strafing and all that jazz. Were I to run into Q2 instead, I'd probably just say "fuck it" again. It didn't have Skaarj saying "Fuck you to your KB-only controlling, haha".

Sadly, the Quake vs Unreal (vs HL?) debate is massively pointless now since all of the aforementioned have hit a serious Decline Speedbump.

 

[shihonage]

Quake2 had mouselook, so did Quake1, Duke3d and Terminator: Future Shock (as of December 1995).

Also, unlike Unreal, Quake2 had good level design and weapons that didn't blow chunks (in both senses). They actually felt decent to use. Enemies were a lot cooler. There was full support for co-op, with no compromises. Save/load anytime. It was a blast.

 

[Morgoth]

Also, unlike Unreal, Quake2 had good level design

Enter room. Find blue key. Step on elevator. Enter new room?

 

[Angthoron]

Quake2 had mouselook, so did Quake1, Duke3d and Terminator: Future Shock (as of December 1995).

You will notice that I didn't say that Q2 didn't have mouse support. What I did say is that I didn't need to use it. In fact, I played it around the same time as Unreal, and the mouselook assist option basically did all the targetting for me. Sure, you'll point out how I'd be blown to bits in MP, but I said nothing about MP at all - just the singleplayer campaign. The mobility of Unreal mobs is MILES ahead of Q2. Fuck, it's miles ahead of modern shooters. I want more games with AI like that.

Also, unlike Unreal, Quake2 had good level design

Probably. It just looked like ass, completely unmemorable and indistinguishable. It's cool that there were secrets and elevators and stuff, but I could honestly not tell anything apart. Even Q1 environments were more distinct.

and weapons that didn't blow chunks (in both senses).

I liked weapons in both. Q2 for the functionality/lethality, Unreal for creative ideas and alt/combination attacks. Dual Enforcers, Flak Cannon, Razorjack, Shard Gun - fun stuff.

Enemies were a lot cooler.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. In my opinion, Unreal enemies are way better designed, with much more individuality, and, well, model detail.

Save/load anytime.

Same in Unreal.

Anyway, apples/oranges.

 

[shihonage]

Also, unlike Unreal, Quake2 had good level design

Enter room. Find blue key. Step on elevator. Enter new room?

Let me guess, you don't think Doom had good level design either.

DooM is just a random mess with no goal, no structure

... oh.

 

[shihonage]

You will notice that I didn't say that Q2 didn't have mouse support. What I did say is that I didn't need to use it. In fact, I played it around the same time as Unreal, and the mouselook assist option basically did all the targetting for me. Sure, you'll point out how I'd be blown to bits in MP, but I said nothing about MP at all - just the singleplayer campaign. The mobility of Unreal mobs is MILES ahead of Q2. Fuck, it's miles ahead of modern shooters. I want more games with AI like that.

Increased challenge isn't automatically tied to increased enjoyment. Struggling with retarded weapons in schizophrenic levels certainly did not blow my skirt up.

Also, pathfinding in FPS is overrated. It isn't the magical holy grail that makes a game more fun by itself.

Probably. It just looked like ass, completely unmemorable and indistinguishable. It's cool that there were secrets and elevators and stuff, but I could honestly not tell anything apart. Even Q1 environments were more distinct.

Incorrect. I passed both Q1 and Q2 campaigns. Q1 was mind-numbingly brown while Q2 had quite a bit of variety. It even had some lite scripted sequences, and it made noble attempts to maintain a feel of an ongoing war.

Its balance of indoor areas with outdoor breathers was well-paced and appreciated.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. In my opinion, Unreal enemies are way better designed, with much more individuality, and, well, model detail.

Visuals != Gameplay. You really are focused on visuals a lot. I am focused on enemy attack timings and patterns, and the general feel of combat, movement and exploration.

Same in Unreal.

In Unreal you couldn't save/load in co-op because it had none.

 

[Angthoron]

Ah, you meant co-op saving. Arrite, was wondering about that.

Like I said, the amazing combination of grey and brown just didn't blow my mind. And yeah, I do care about visuals, FPS is/was the genre to push the visual aspects the most. It's partly why I didn't get into arena/MP shooters, since it's just the same effing boxes and balanced symmetric design. Meh. Kind of ironic that I ended up raiding in MMOs.

As for timings and patterns, it's odd that you dismiss the AI of Unreal and diminish it to just "pathfinding", when it's so much more than that - attack/retreat patterns, attempts at teamplay by the mobs at higher difficulty, adaptiveness, that sort of thing. I found timing patterns for most Q2 mobs to be pretty simple - and I was a pretty horrible FPS player at the time. They're just too predictable.

However, shotguns in Quake 2 were amazing.

 

[balmorar]

Doom 4 will take place on Earth.

The player will become the cyberdemon or similar creature.

There will be a lot of linear vehicle, turret sections in the game like in Call of Duty.

 

[Angthoron]

Would be much more rad if the player is the son of cyberdemon and human.

 

[Stefan Vujovic]

But can you romance any of the demons/cyberdemons ? If yes, 1st day purchase...

 

[Lyric Suite]

Incorrect. I passed both Q1 and Q2 campaigns. Q1 was mind-numbingly brown while Q2 had quite a bit of variety.

Q2 was mind-numbingly orange, hardly what i would call variety.

I liked both games and i think Q2 gets way too much flak, mostly from atmosphere fags. From a gameplay and level design perspective, it was the last truly good game they made. Somebody said before here that Doom was not an accident. And it wasn't. Even in a game like Quake 2 you can see ID had several fundamental design principles which were geared entirely on making the action as fluid as possible, from the feel of the guns, to the animations of the enemies all the way to the very way the engine moved. Everything just felt right. Quake 1 is probably the best example of this because at first the gun play feels totally underwhelming but after you play it for a while you realize that all of the elements still fit together nicely. It has a different pace from Doom or Quake 2 (i think the latter was supposed to be a return to the first, Quake 1 being geared more for online play, at least in my opinion), but it works just as well.

In fact, in a way, i think ID software gets criticized too much. It seems a lot of people really never understood what they were actually doing. Their design principle seemed to be polish before content, but people merely judged them when the latter was lacking, ignoring all the work that went into making the game or the engine feel so right in the first place. It is a pity, since a company like ID software is precisely what we need right now, quite ironically i might add.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

All I want is an insane shooter that makes me shit my pants with tension due to huge numbers of enemies on screen at once because I picked up the fucking blue keycard.

OK, so there aren't any blue keycards...

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

The Doom novels are all about the Hell aspect of the invasion was just mind games by the invading aliens, right?