The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[Morgoth]

Stop talking about story please. This is a DooM thread.

 

[evdk]

Man, Doom had a story. What do you think those walls of text in between episodes (that you skipped) were?

 

[TripJack]

I've finished both games at least five times each and i still don't know what the story is.

doomguy had to avenge the death of his pet rabbit, that's the story

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

Yes, the ending cliffhanger in the first one when you see bunnies head on spikes. It was freaky for me when I saw it first time.

 

[DefJam101]

how to shot demons

 

[evdk]

The Doom novels are all about the Hell aspect of the invasion was just mind games by the invading aliens, right?

 

[Perkel]

The Doom novels

:shudder:

 

[Lyric Suite]

As far as i remember, Tom Hall's original idea was to make some type of System Shock or at any rate some type of story driven game. So i'm sure there's a lot of extended back-story and lore, but in so far of what actually made it into the game...

 

[Lyric Suite]

You are saying that like earlier dooms didn't have a story.

I've finished both games at least five times each and i still don't know what the story is.

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Development_of_Doom

The game was to take place on an alien planet called Tei Tenga, on which the UAAF (United Aerospace Armed Forces) had two military research bases. There would be five player characters with different personalities and abilities: Lorelei Chen, John "Petro" Pietrovich, Dimitri Paramo, Thi Barrett, and Buddy Dacote; the game would start with creatures from Hell suddenly bursting in while the five were playing cards. There would be a total of six episodes, with storylines involving traveling to Hell and back through the gates which the hellspawn used, and the destruction of Tei Tenga, for which the players would be sent to jail.

John Carmack disapproved of the detailed plot, instead imagining Doom as a simple, action-oriented game. He remarked, "Story in a game is like story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." This creative conflict ended with the others agreeing that Hall's levels emphasized realism at the cost of making the gameplay entertaining. Hall was forced to resign in the summer of 1993.

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_RPG
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_II_RPG

Spoiler

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom_novels

Carmack and his stupid hubris. One wonders how far this company could have gone if he didn't have this "i'm too good to be working on this industry" attitude.

 

[tuluse]

Carmack and his stupid hubris. One wonders how far this company could have gone if he didn't have this "i'm too good to be working on this industry" attitude.

On the other hand Romero and Hall went way over budget and had huge delays with their games. So he was right that Romero wasn't getting his work done in a timely manner.

 

[Boyarpunk]

The Doom novels

:shudder:

DOOM novels???

 

[Lyric Suite]

Well, if there is one thing i'd expect an engineer to be good at would be to get shit done and run things with efficiency. But to me it really seems Carmack wanted to make dumb action games because he really didn't think all that highly of this entertainment form in the first place. If ID software hadn't been so lucrative for him i doubt he would have stuck around in this industry for as long as he did.

Also, Tom Hall gave us Anachronox, and that goes to his credit i think.

 

[Infinitron]

Flynn Taggart! The guy who made the "If Doom was done today" videos used the Doomguy's name from the novels in them.

 

[DeepOcean]

"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important."

Well, Romero now look like a psycho hobo but he was right on this. The gamming industry right now is like a bunch of porn screenwriters decided to turn porn in art by making the plumber man seducing the housewife scene two hours long.

 

[evdk]

I don't mind stories in games, some genres pretty much require them (adventures, etc...) - it's just when the devs prioritize the story over the gameplay when it all turns to shit.

 

[UserNamer]

doom is perfect as it is, not making it a system shock like game was one of the few good accidental insights into game design carmack ever had

also let's be honest here, a detailed plot for a game where you shot at interdimensional demons in a space base?

I would like a bit more context in a modern doom game, but not too much. How much exposition do you need for "You are a super badass marine and demons from space need to be killed"

 

[shihonage]

Doom was no coincidence. No brilliant game ever is.

A modern Doom sequel should play just like Doom1/2, but have upgraded graphics. It may have a theme, but the moment that theme starts making the game's levels less colorful or varied than the original's, it needs to be chucked into the trash can of bad ideas.

The abstraction of Doom's setting allowed for a lot of imaginative and memorable level design. You could build something that would give an architect an anxiety attack, but would allow for fun enemy placement and trap scripting... and fun is what it's all about.

The moment cinematic bullshit and quasi-realistic environments became part of Doom franchise, it died.

 

[DraQ]

The Doom novels are all about the Hell aspect of the invasion was just mind games by the invading aliens, right?

Having all the hell imagery and themes come from human heads would actually make for potentially interesting plot, capable of elevating the game way above "hurr IMMA blowing the demons with my SHOTGUN!!!1" of Doom, without necessarily sacrificing any gameplay.

tl;dr
Carmack was already a massive douche and faggot even back then, it seems.

(we need a Carmack emote wearing oculus bucket, BTW)

Well, Romero now look like a psycho hobo but he was right on this. The gamming industry right now is like a bunch of porn screenwriters decided to turn porn in art by making the plumber man seducing the housewife scene two hours long.

Having story or backstory != being a shittier movie with shoddy excuse gameplay shoehorned in.

 

[UserNamer]

Doom was no coincidence. No brilliant game ever is.

A modern Doom sequel should play just like Doom1/2, but have upgraded graphics. It may have a theme, but the moment that theme starts making the game's levels less colorful or varied than the original's, it needs to be chucked into the trash can of bad ideas.

The abstraction of Doom's setting allowed for a lot of imaginative and memorable level design. You could build something that would give an architect an anxiety attack, but would allow for fun enemy placement and trap scripting... and fun is what it's all about.

The moment cinematic bullshit and quasi-realistic environments became part of Doom franchise, it died.

see I think Doom 2 is perfect for what it is, so no need to try and recreate it. It's perfectly playable and replayable and they are still making new quality levels for it.

Doom 4 should just be an ACTION game (ie not a slow walking corridor explorer) with fun weapons and hordes of enemies and impressive graphics. That's it (I forgot, no health regen obviously). It would be stupid to try to make the exact same game. Obviously it doesn't mean they should go in the other direction and make it a bunch of cutscenes with boring corridor waddling in between.

 

[shihonage]

see I think Doom 2 is perfect for what it is, so no need to try and recreate it. It's perfectly playable and replayable and they are still making new quality levels for it.

That would be a good point if there was one single decisive polished Doom port that has just the right balance of enhancements and options and would work over Steamworks in coop/dm seamlessly while letting you save and load your game without messing with command-line parameters and shit.

Instead we got a freak circus of ports. GZDoom appears to be most stable and generally sane, but to recreate that true peer-to-peer networking feeling, you gotta open ports in your firewall and then use unwieldy shells to launch it with specific parameters, all the while also making sure that the 50-something internal gameplay parameters are identically set on both machines...

 

[DraQ]

Doom was no coincidence. No brilliant game ever is.

Actually I'm beginning to think every brilliant game ever is.
Only turds are working exactly as designed and are thus predictable to everyone but their devteams.

The abstraction of Doom's setting allowed for a lot of imaginative and memorable level design. You could build something that would give an architect an anxiety attack, but would allow for fun enemy placement and trap scripting... and fun is what it's all about.

Aliens fucking with people's heads would too.

The moment cinematic bullshit

No one wants or cares for cinematic bullshit just because they would have preferred smarter, less derpy Doom.

Instead we got a freak circus of ports. GZDoom appears to be most stable and generally sane, but to recreate that true peer-to-peer networking feeling, you gotta open ports in your firewall and then use unwieldy shells to launch it with specific parameters, all the while also making sure that the 50-something internal gameplay parameters are identically set on both machines...

Works perfectly as CoD-tard filter.

 

[Excidium]

Why are niggas hatin on Carmack ITT

 

[shihonage]

DraQ I'm starting to get the impression that you're singling out my posts even if you got nothing of value to say.





Quake2 is one of the best FPS ever made.

 

[Excidium]

I wish CRPGs had games half as good as FPS have with Doom and Quake

 

[shihonage]

I wish we had artificial intelligence half as good at its job as this tic-tac-toe program is.