Astral Rag
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2012
- Messages
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The New DOOM Thread (2016)
- Thread starter Morgoth
- Start date
I didn't expect them to milk Quake, since it seems to have a more niche fanbase than Doom, and in my experience that niche is double stuffed with obsessive spergy fans, the kind who figuratively led the crusade on D44M's multiplayer.
soulburner
Cipher
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2013
- Messages
- 843
Quake, the original Quake? I would get excited of D44M didn't ultimately fail me.
So the player is going to fight Ogres and Shamblers on countless arenas, discovering on his/her way the truth about being an ancient multidimensional being who must collect little Quake Marine action figures in order to survive. Can't wait to enhance the nailgun, so many possibilities!
So the player is going to fight Ogres and Shamblers on countless arenas, discovering on his/her way the truth about being an ancient multidimensional being who must collect little Quake Marine action figures in order to survive. Can't wait to enhance the nailgun, so many possibilities!
If they do it right it might be a good game, but that's a big if. No Strogg shit please.
- Go for a true oldschool approach with game design. Quake is a very direct game, so keep it direct and make no compromises. Throw out collectibles, modifiers and all that shit, you don't need it. If your game is good people won't care about that. If they do they are not your target audience anyway.
- If the level design of Doom is of any indication then the guys at id are capable of making excellent things. However, first and foremost they need to ditch that focus on arenas, embrace the old school of level design once and for all and go for what made Doom and Quake levels so great: making dungeon-like levels as opposed to a chain of arenas, the kind of dungeons you'd find in an RPG. They need to dive head first into this mindset or they won't be able to succeed where Romero, McGee and Petersen succeeded. Traps, moving geometry, teleporters galore, emphasis on verticality, useful secrets, well thought-out weapon and item progression, ambushes and good flow that's not interrupted by story or arenas after arenas. Exploration and combat must not be separated like modern shooters do and must go hand in hand.
- Keep the Lovecraft aesthetics and the moody atmosphere. Doom is a very flashy game with its mostly heavy metal soundtrack while Quake is a darker game with an emphasis on eldritch and otherworldly locales. The great thing Quake managed to do however was tie this and its frantic gameplay together instead of trying to scare you like Doom 3 does while reducing the pacing of the game to a crawl. Keep it fast but keep it moody as well.
- Which brings me to: get rid of the glory kills and the health and pickup mechanics entirely, and revert back to the classic style. Glory kills are goofy but aren't that much out of place in Doom; I mean you could punch monsters to death or hack them with a chainsaw. In Quake, however, they'd look beyond silly. Quake is a violent, gory game but I cannot picture Ranger sticking his hands in a shambler's mouth and ripping its tongue out. Reverting back to the old health and pickup mechanics would compliment the oldschool dungeon level design instead of undermining it like Doom 4 does, would force players to keep an eye on resources and manage them accordingly and would encourage players to explore the level and maybe find secrets. Doom and Quake never force you to explore levels but they encourage you to do it regardless. This and the emphasis on arenas are what make Doom 4 merely a pretty good game instead of the great game it could've been.
- Make monsters great again! I'm semi-joking here, but the Quake bestiary, despite being quite small compared to Doom 2's, works very well as a team overall. There is still monster infighting, which is great, but good use of monster combinations can kill a player quite quickly. Doom 4 didn't explore this so it looks like the monsters are all working solo instead of trying to kill you 'together', if you get what I mean. Ogres rain down grenades on your hidey-hole while Fiends try to catch you and efficiently eviscerate you when you are cornered. The fully 3D level design possibilities and the synergies between monsters in Quake can result in a myriad of situations that weren't possible with Doom 1, 2 and 64, and that I wish I'd see with Doom 4.
- The multiplayer must be as fast as QW/CPMA with no loadout crap and with proper item placement.
EDIT: modified a passage because it was contradictory.
- Go for a true oldschool approach with game design. Quake is a very direct game, so keep it direct and make no compromises. Throw out collectibles, modifiers and all that shit, you don't need it. If your game is good people won't care about that. If they do they are not your target audience anyway.
- If the level design of Doom is of any indication then the guys at id are capable of making excellent things. However, first and foremost they need to ditch that focus on arenas, embrace the old school of level design once and for all and go for what made Doom and Quake levels so great: making dungeon-like levels as opposed to a chain of arenas, the kind of dungeons you'd find in an RPG. They need to dive head first into this mindset or they won't be able to succeed where Romero, McGee and Petersen succeeded. Traps, moving geometry, teleporters galore, emphasis on verticality, useful secrets, well thought-out weapon and item progression, ambushes and good flow that's not interrupted by story or arenas after arenas. Exploration and combat must not be separated like modern shooters do and must go hand in hand.
- Keep the Lovecraft aesthetics and the moody atmosphere. Doom is a very flashy game with its mostly heavy metal soundtrack while Quake is a darker game with an emphasis on eldritch and otherworldly locales. The great thing Quake managed to do however was tie this and its frantic gameplay together instead of trying to scare you like Doom 3 does while reducing the pacing of the game to a crawl. Keep it fast but keep it moody as well.
- Which brings me to: get rid of the glory kills and the health and pickup mechanics entirely, and revert back to the classic style. Glory kills are goofy but aren't that much out of place in Doom; I mean you could punch monsters to death or hack them with a chainsaw. In Quake, however, they'd look beyond silly. Quake is a violent, gory game but I cannot picture Ranger sticking his hands in a shambler's mouth and ripping its tongue out. Reverting back to the old health and pickup mechanics would compliment the oldschool dungeon level design instead of undermining it like Doom 4 does, would force players to keep an eye on resources and manage them accordingly and would encourage players to explore the level and maybe find secrets. Doom and Quake never force you to explore levels but they encourage you to do it regardless. This and the emphasis on arenas are what make Doom 4 merely a pretty good game instead of the great game it could've been.
- Make monsters great again! I'm semi-joking here, but the Quake bestiary, despite being quite small compared to Doom 2's, works very well as a team overall. There is still monster infighting, which is great, but good use of monster combinations can kill a player quite quickly. Doom 4 didn't explore this so it looks like the monsters are all working solo instead of trying to kill you 'together', if you get what I mean. Ogres rain down grenades on your hidey-hole while Fiends try to catch you and efficiently eviscerate you when you are cornered. The fully 3D level design possibilities and the synergies between monsters in Quake can result in a myriad of situations that weren't possible with Doom 1, 2 and 64, and that I wish I'd see with Doom 4.
- The multiplayer must be as fast as QW/CPMA with no loadout crap and with proper item placement.
EDIT: modified a passage because it was contradictory.
Last edited:
tormund
Arcane
I wouldn't be surprised if QUAKE THE REBOOT is multiplayer focused or even MP only, given that they have two SP focused FPS reboots now (Wolf and Doom) and most people are mentioning Quake in terms of Q3 nowadays.
Prepare yourself for Bethesda's own entry into the blooming genre of FPS MOBAs, men.
Prepare yourself for Bethesda's own entry into the blooming genre of FPS MOBAs, men.
Astral Rag
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2012
- Messages
- 7,771
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 99,690
adrix89
Cipher
For fuck's sake Codex, you cannot ever be satisfied.
The 90's Doom market has long ago evaporated ever since Half Life 1.
The reason DOOM 4 is not exactly the same as 90's Doom and to the taste of Codex is because Codex is a Niche market.
Doom 4 market is the CONSOLE MARKET, the "modern" things about it are things console players are used to and expect.
Here is the thing DOOM 4 is a fucking revolution. On consoles this is what you get:
Now the health piniata is not to everyone's taste. But people forget the obvious, it's not a cover based shooter. This is HUGE.
A new generation of chucklefucks will discover how awesome it is to not fucking hump a wall and have a true arsenal at their disposal. We might have a chance of progress in the FPS genre instead of the endless stagnation.
As for Snapshit, I expect Bethesda to release a real mod kit for Doom 4, you know why?
Because Bethesda wants paid mods on consoles.
The 90's Doom market has long ago evaporated ever since Half Life 1.
The reason DOOM 4 is not exactly the same as 90's Doom and to the taste of Codex is because Codex is a Niche market.
Doom 4 market is the CONSOLE MARKET, the "modern" things about it are things console players are used to and expect.
Here is the thing DOOM 4 is a fucking revolution. On consoles this is what you get:
Now the health piniata is not to everyone's taste. But people forget the obvious, it's not a cover based shooter. This is HUGE.
A new generation of chucklefucks will discover how awesome it is to not fucking hump a wall and have a true arsenal at their disposal. We might have a chance of progress in the FPS genre instead of the endless stagnation.
As for Snapshit, I expect Bethesda to release a real mod kit for Doom 4, you know why?
Because Bethesda wants paid mods on consoles.
So? Just because something is an improvement over the current situation doesn't mean that people have to gobble it up. Games are a commodity, you can set your standards as high as you want with no negative consequences except a smaller selection of products to choose from. Smaller, but not empty: the old games never went away, and the Doom community has great WADs (or so I am told... I have shit taste in FPS).
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 58,301
I'm not particularly impressed by what i've seen, though the game does seem to be a lot better than expected. What i want to know is, is it better than all those so called "old school" FPS released recently? Because that would be pretty pathetic.
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 58,301
That's a strawman argument. We don't expect Doom 4 to be like Doom. We expect it to be designed following similar principles. I'm starting to get a bit annoyed by all the retards who play the "nostalgia" card every time they try to rebuke criticism against this game. We don't care about Doom because of "nostalgia". We care about it because it was a bloody good game which is still more fun than any of the Call of Duty shit released today.
adrix89
Cipher
If you don't expect it to have the console market in mind, you are completely delusional.
Only pieces of scrap we can get. That is what means to be in a niche.
The mainstream does not carter to us.
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 58,301
I fail to see how that addresses what i said.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
I watched entire campaign stream and it does look better than other pseudo-old school FPS.
DeepOcean
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2012
- Messages
- 7,404
Yeah, I wish every time some moron come up with the nostalgia card, he should be fed with his own dick.
SumDrunkGuy
Guest
The game really is good. You guys should try it before shitting on it. Sure it's not the true callback to OG Doom that some critics are making it out to be, it is it's own thing.
Ugh.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
It's not as bad as it seemed but it's not good.
SumDrunkGuy
Guest
I aint sayin buy it. Pirate the mother fucker if that pleases you. But if you aint played it, you have no ground to stand on. This isn't a Fallout 4 situation of knowing what shit you're jumping into ahead of time. It's a "reimagining" from what is now a completely different studio from the one that made original Doom.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
I watched sexbad's stream in its entirity. Don't give me "you gotta play it man", it's a fucking FPS in the vein of Serious Sam/Painkiller, not some revolutionary new game concept.
SumDrunkGuy
Guest
Stopped reading there. Fuck off.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
Fucking imbecile. Go shill this shit on neogaf or reddit where you belong.
SumDrunkGuy
Guest
^ Angry nerd
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
^ result of promoting the codex on social media
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