Incline The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild for Wii U and Switch

[Neuromancer]

I'm hesitant to call Hyrule Castle a 'real dungeon', but it's the closest thing the game has.

I know what you mean and basically agree with you.

Just for the sake of an open discussion, I was a little bit lenient to the guy that claimed that BOTW had 7 full sized dungeons.

 

[Talby]

The dungeons in ZeldaBreath barely qualify as dungeons. They're all short and don't have unique designs like the other Zelda games - take a random screenshot of one of the Divine Beasts, you probably won't know which one you're in at a glance, or even if you're in a dungeon at all or one of the shrines. Even the bosses of the Divine Beasts feel samey because they're all variations on Ganon's design. Compare to say Ocarina of Time, where you'll never mistake the forest temple for the water temple, or the spirit temple for the fire temple. They're substantial, unique challenges.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Yeah it's a shame they didn't manage to implement that on an open world scale, would have been cool but i can see the problems there.

What would the problem be?

Clashing with the "go everywhere whenever you feel like it" that the game seems to do it's best to adhere to, for one.

So the Witcher 3 is closer to Zelda 1 than any other Zelda too, is that right? They’re both open world action adventure games.

The point is that they only share the broadest elements. My point in that post is to say that BOTW is not the Zelda game closest to Z1, as it does not have many of the same gameplay elements, unlike ALttP, which does.

Witcher 3 doesn't have puzzles. Go ahead, try again.

Look, I get that you like BOTW, but there is a reason that people who love the formula of Zelda aren’t its biggest fans.

People are retarded.

ALttP on the other hand has a very well defined structure, a linear sense of progression and a specific "solution" for all it's challenges
The sense adveture is created by the absolute controls the devs exercise over every moment of the campgain
Not to say it's bad or worse, since it was this "formula" that gaves us Majora's Mask, but it's clear that original aspect of "freedom of exploration" had to be sacrificed to make this happen

I had the same feeling between Zelda and AlttP, for me I think it's mostly the graphics, AlttP being so much more defined it shrinks down the feeling of the world when compared to the more abstract Zelda gfx.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

snip

Nice write-up.

 

[TedNugent]

I bought a Switch and have been temporarily distanced from my beloved desktop.

I picked up this game out of a feeling of obligation to slog through it and I am finding it to be shockingly uninspired at the early stages of the game.

I really just want to express my frustration at the barren wasteland I've experienced so far up until the first Divine Beast. A few pockets of goblin camps with fuck-all, some lizard-camps with some lizard weapons, shrines that are self-contained puzzle boxes to tutorial the Shika Slate powers and how to use them in world exploration. I'll get back around to it eventually. I feel like the Divine Beast was groundbreaking inside the game and showed that there is inspiration behind it. I just wonder why it's hidden behind so much. I don't think much of the combat system. I fought that centaur dude when you got the lightning arrows, and it really boiled down to cheesing the dodge-counter.

I still feel like this open world popamolism is really endemic right now. I am confused as to why Link is able to crawl barehanded up rock faces and buildings like Spiderman while being unable to dive below water surfaces. Didn't this used to require a ladder or a magic piece of equipment? Well, given the open world Spiderman game and Ass Creed, the inspiration seems somewhat obvious to me since it makes little sense otherwise.

I feel like I missed something awfully important in my childhood by missing out on Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. They seemed like such a critical building block to people's early childhood development. I wanted to experience a Zelda game. It sucks that the only things on offer on the Switch are this game, allegedly a poor port of OoT/MM, and Skyward Sword. Is there a better way to play Ocarina other than the Switch?

 

[dacencora]

The Ocarina 3DS remake is great, but it’s not exactly the same thing. Slight differences such as making the water temple easier to solve via new hints, and removing blood that was present in the original game. It’s still a great way to experience the game. Majora’s Mask is a bit different on the 3DS remake because they implemented dual-stick controls.

 

[Delterius]

I heard the real issue with the Majora's Mask remake is that they made the entire game easier for no reason.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I heard the real issue with the Majora's Mask remake is that they made the entire game easier for no reason.

They made alot of changes to the artstyle and mechanics that dilute the orginal experience, possibly because Aonuma didn't want to make MM and still to this day he doesn't like his work in it
You can find extensive comparasions on the subject, but here's a good and short one:

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

There was some nightmarish post or article claiming how hard the original game was and remake making it better, stuff like the skeleton chase which I barely even remembered let alone it being a a problem.

Pansies

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Nerrel is very biased in that video. But all the changes he mentions are real, is up to you to decide how important they are. In my opinion, most or them aren't that important. The most relevant are the ones that affects the gameplay like the changes to the swimming as zora, the bosses redesign and the ice arrows. I believe the visuals of the game are great, the new lighting engine helps to highlight the contrast between the shadows and the models, being similar to the original artwork.

There's a modified version of the 3ds game that brings back things from the n64 version. I think it is called project restorarion or something like that, you need an emulator like Citra to play it.

Is there a better way to play Ocarina other than the Switch?

Hehehehehe



Nintendo had a info leak time ago and the code from some games ended up on internet. The code of Supermario 64 got decompiled and the community created a port of it that runs on PC as a native program. Allowing mods and visuals improvements, it is a great way of playing the game. Recenlty, the same happened to Ocarina, the code has been turned into something readable and probably right now there's people out there creating a port of the game for PC. The main problem that has been found is that the overall speed of the game and a lot of its mechanics like the day/night cycle are related to the framerate, 20 FPS on the code but the N64 hardly managed to get 16 FPS. So there's a bit more of job to do, but still, if you have patience you will get a great version of the original game very soon.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

They seemed like such a critical building block to people's early childhood development. I wanted to experience a Zelda game.

That is one of the "problems" with BotW

Spoiler

though I really fucking enjoyed this, ever so guilty

, as Ventidius pointed out the game is quite heavy on the fanservice; obviously won't do anything for "new" players which I can imagine makes everything feel a lot more empty/bland.

 

[Delterius]

swimming as zora

why did they change this

those are the best swimming mechanics of all time

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Nerrel is very biased in that video.

Of course he's biased, he's the biggest MM fanboy on the interwbs
He spent some 2 years making the most autistically comprehensive graphics pack for the N64 version of MM

But he does have good points
And I'll have to agree with him, even as far the visuals go
While the lighting looks fine and appropriate most of the time, the changes to the textures and some models are too sanitized...

 

[e-mailio estevez]

It's been awhile since I watched the Nerrel video but I recall nodding in agreement to most of it. They took a lot of the fun out of Majora's Mask from a gameplay perspective and the boss changes were wack. The revised worm boss was one of the worst fights I've ever seen.

I am really not a fan of either of the 3DS remakes. Sure the graphics were 'improved' but they fucked up the ambience on many of the scenes completely

I have similar feelings about the Link's Awakening remake. The gameboy-era graphics had your mind filling in the blanks on how things actually looked (and I wholly recommend looking up some of the neat, dream-like and semi-realistic artwork for that game) and all of the chibi remade grpahics looked like shit IMO

 

[cruel]

So, I forced myself to play this again (felt bad about spending $60 and playing only for few hours), and it seems I was wrong about the game. It's actually pretty decent.

They should really make a sign somewhere saying 'what you see in the first few hours is NOT everything the game has to offer, force yourself to play for at least 10h'. The beginning is so boring, empty, filled with same enemies, no people to talk to, zero quests, nothing. Throwing bombs at goblins gets boring pretty quickly. The freaking combat tutorial, which is the base for all the encounters (parry / side dodge / backflip etc.) is given to you in one of the villages, which you may (or may not) reach after more than 10 hours of playing, depending where you go. No idea why they didn't include it in the tutorial area.
After switching regions, suddenly you have some people to talk to, better enemy variety, different looking areas, weather conditions, shops to buy stuff, even some quests to take (although most of them are not very high quality, with some exceptions). Some of the shrine puzzles are actually very high quality and creative (and this is coming from a person who hates puzzles). Story is almost non-existent though (great evil awakens blabla), so if you're a storyfag, stay away. Still, it's a much better product than typical popamole open world games filled with collectibles .
At this point I have 65h in, all the map open, two divine beasts to tackle left, so probably will hit 100h playing this. The only major complaint I have about the game is extremely low enemy variety - you will spend most of your time fighting 3 enemy types: bokoblins, moblins, lizards. They will have different versions / colors / weapons, but for an AAA game, this is really bad. After 40h or so, I started avoiding combat sometimes, seeing same type enemies all over again. There are some other types (bats, wolves, chuchus), but they die in one hit and are more like a cannon fodder / easy money source.

TLDR: game is fine, but force yourself to play at least 10h.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I bought this close to release and could never force myself to finish it. I killed the 4 divine beasts and didn't do much of the open world stuff. Some of the reactive gameplay is nice (fire propagation, manipulation of the environment, etc.), but the open world hurts the game more than it helps it. It's way too long. Also I thought most shrines were pretty boring, I would have preferred larger thematic dungeons as in the previous Zeldas.

I liked some areas, like the desert/Garudo town and the overall sense of exploration is alright, even if it feels pretty pointless.

But there are too many annoyances in the game. I guess it's a generational thing and it's just not for me - I especially hate crafting subsystems and all this filler shit they put in (Ubishit towers, etc.) It's better executed than most games of its type, but still too diluted.

I come back to it in an attempt to finish it every 6 months or so, but I just can't do it. Also, it's a much better experience to play this on Cemu at 4k/120fps, but starting over from scratch is even more impossible, so that's a no go as well.

I think the new game that's coming out will be more of the same, but hopefully they can make it more focused with more engaging dungeons (very unlikely).

 

[cruel]

Oh yeah, the lack of dungeons definitely hurts the game, no idea why they did that. But, if you've already beaten 4 divine beats, I think could finish the game in 10h or so.

As for cemu - I'm wondering how stuff like motion controlled shrines work when emulating, does it work at all?

Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk

 

[Nelka]

I'm wondering how stuff like motion controlled shrines work when emulating, does it work at all?

It does, you just switch to mouse control to emulate a gyroscope

 

[Great Deceiver]

You can also use a Dualsense/DS4/Nintendo Switch Pro for full gyro support on Cemu. Last time I tried it the gyro functionality required a wired connection to the controller, though.

https://wiki.cemu.info/wiki/Motion_controls

 

[Wunderbar]

It would've been better if the devs just went all in into "open world survival game". The systems are already in - you can chop down trees, collect lumber, create a campfire, cook food, warm yourself up, etc. There's even these crazy 'emergent gameplay' mechanics like the fire propagation and updraft, which pretty much sold the game to the masses through streaming.

Yet all this is undermined by the fact that you can just instantly open your inventory and use specific countering items. The lightning bolt is about to strike you? Just open your inventory and equip rubber armor. You're low on hearts in the middle of a fight? Just open your inventory and pop some apple pies.

The game would've become massively better if it required from the player a degree of preparation. Maybe add some real-time animations when using consumables, limit the ability to change your armor to when you are resting at a campsite. Add a 'quick-access belt' (like an Adventure pouch from Skyward sword). Bring back empty bottles from previous 3d Zeldas, maybe even add 'empty pots/thermoses' to store hot food.

As of right now BOTW is stuck somewhere inbetween older 3D Zeldas, open-world RPGs, and proper survival games. Except that for a proper 3D Zelda BOTW lacks dungeons; for an open world RPG, BOTW lacks the unique RPG content - it's all copypasted bokoblin camps and shrines and korok seeds; and for a proper survival sim BOTW is too simplistic and forgiving. You just aimlessly wander around the huge open areas, clear copypasted enemy outposts, loot weapons (which will degrade and break after a while), and occasionally visit shrines that all look like Aperture Labs test chambers. It's pretty meandering.

 

[S.torch]

But there are too many annoyances in the game. I guess it's a generational thing and it's just not for me - I especially hate crafting subsystems and all this filler shit they put in (Ubishit towers, etc.) It's better executed than most games of its type, but still too diluted.

Has heck to do with anything "generational". These crafting systems are annoying and grindy in general. The "sanctuaries" were converted into some sort of sci-fiesque trash filled with puzzles taken out from Portal 2. Because nothing makes me think of Zelda more than moving cubes and spheres with my electronic tablet.

Expect the sequel to be ten times worse.

 

[Zanzoken]

It would've been better if the devs just went all in into "open world survival game". The systems are already in - you can chop down trees, collect lumber, create a campfire, cook food, warm yourself up, etc. There's even these crazy 'emergent gameplay' mechanics like the fire propagation and updraft, which pretty much sold the game to the masses through streaming.

Yet all this is undermined by the fact that you can just instantly open your inventory and use specific countering items. The lightning bolt is about to strike you? Just open your inventory and equip rubber armor. You're low on hearts in the middle of a fight? Just open your inventory and pop some apple pies.

The game would've become massively better if it required from the player a degree of preparation. Maybe add some real-time animations when using consumables, limit the ability to change your armor to when you are resting at a campsite. Add a 'quick-access belt' (like an Adventure pouch from Skyward sword). Bring back empty bottles from previous 3d Zeldas, maybe even add 'empty pots/thermoses' to store hot food.

As of right now BOTW is stuck somewhere inbetween older 3D Zeldas, open-world RPGs, and proper survival games. Except that for a proper 3D Zelda BOTW lacks dungeons; for an open world RPG, BOTW lacks the unique RPG content - it's all copypasted bokoblin camps and shrines and korok seeds; and for a proper survival sim BOTW is too simplistic and forgiving. You just aimlessly wander around the huge open areas, clear copypasted enemy outposts, loot weapons (which will degrade and break after a while), and occasionally visit shrines that all look like Aperture Labs test chambers. It's pretty meandering.

Haven't played BOTW in years but I remember having many of these same thoughts. They did such an amazing job on the systems for the game, and it feels so good to play. But then they undercut a lot of it with popamole design choices.

I'd love a proper survival sim with this engine and mechanics, or even a cRPG like Gothic. We'll never get anything like that in the Zelda IP though.

 

[WhiteShark]

The game feels hollow. I did a 24 hour binge back when it was new and at the end of it I suddenly realized that there was nothing worth finding and I completely lost my taste for the game. The combat isn't hard, there's no situation that truly demands you make use of all the fancy mechanics, and the only piece of loot in the entire game that matters is the Master Sword.

 

[Lyre Mors]

The combat isn't hard, there's no situation that truly demands you make use of all the fancy mechanics, and the only piece of loot in the entire game that matters is the Master Sword.

This is all pretty much addressed by playing in Master Mode. Of course you didn't have that at your disposal when you first tried it, but if you ever felt like giving it another try, most of your biggest gripes would be solved.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'd love a proper survival sim with this engine and mechanics, or even a cRPG like Gothic. We'll never get anything like that in the Zelda IP though.

Nothing against a game like this in general, but this is not Zelda.

And the Zelda world and lore IMHO are not deep or elaborated enough to justify other games in this environment.
Heck, they change the back story in almost every new game, so that they have several conflicting timelines already.