The Japs do everything better

[Silverfish]

Part of the purpose of the game's story was to wrap up and tiddy up almost 20 years worth of cannon, which was a disjointed mess before 5

Was it? I've never played DMC5 and never will, and nothing from the old games struck me as disjointed or hard to follow.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

Capcom is competing for ugly women and even trannies.

Any example from companies not dependent on pursuing the US/Euro market?

 

[Hell Swarm]

Part of the purpose of the game's story was to wrap up and tiddy up almost 20 years worth of cannon, which was a disjointed mess before 5

Was it? I've never played DMC5 and never will, and nothing from the old games struck me as disjointed or hard to follow.

It's designed to pass the torch to Nero but we all know they aren't making a DMC without Dante. Would immediately bomb if they tried it.

Capcom is competing for ugly women and even trannies.

Any example from companies not dependent on pursuing the US/Euro market?

Does Square Enix count? The new FF7 game's NPCs look like Starfield. Weebs defended it by saying "Of course the slums are full of ugly black people" but it's still hideous to look at. Like a dragon (I think that's Yakuza) has these ugly faggots I would argue contend with the best of boggle eyed nigresses but your mileage may vary.

 

[JB_0x0003]

A false equivalence
For games you are compraing a single element to the whole work that is a book or a symphony

It's not a single element it's the MAIN element. You can literally have games with zero art and sounds. This is NOT the same as movies with no sound, like those of the silent era.

Lyric Suite, I hate to do this, but since you have repeatedly IGNORED me, I will have remind you that pursuant to title 7.3.C of the official national speech and debate association scoring manual, any points which you do not address are automatically scored as a concession to the other party (me). I'm afraid the tally is quite against you now, but in my solicitude I am once again extending the ability to respond.
I would recommend that you, for your own sake of course, respond, or you have OFFICIALLY LOST to me in the court of public opinion. (You will also be a yellow-bellied coward but this isn't mentioned in any highschool debate manual I've read, so it isn't relevant to the current discussion) Those are simply the rules, whether you like them or not.

So.

WHAT DO YOU GET OUT OF RPGS IF ONLY THE GAMEPLAY IS THE "GAME" PART? Most RPGs use the gameplay to give a sense of time and progression, or to create a sense of external pressure to root you to the world. What RPGs do you like and how are they somehow defined entirely by gameplay? I'm going to be frank, this is a fucking baffling thing to say on RPGcodex.net , we aren't talking about shmup or platformer mechanical autism, which become their own James Joyce esque world defined in relation to themselves.

Oh yeah that. Maybe i'll try it, but i don't usually read that much fiction anymore. I also need a PDF or epub file to put on my e-reader as i can't read on anything with a backlight as it makes my eyes burn. Wish z-library was still up.

Lyric, can I call you lyric? WHAT does that MEAN? Since you are inexplicably UNABLE to read my posts, I will post my question ONCE AGAIN. This time I have helpfully labeled my question in bold and with many arrows so that you CANNOT POSSIBLY FUCK THIS UP YET AGAIN. I understand the codex is a distraction from your IMPORTANT WORK of furthering the ENDLESS EXEGESIS of Schuon, but please pay some attention to what I actually said in my post, as I DID NOT TALK ABOUT ANY BOOKS. You reflexively responded to something you thought I may have said without actually reading. For someone as obviously well-read as you, this is curious behavior!

THE PART YOU RESPOND TO IS BELOW
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THE PART YOU RESPOND TO IS ABOVE

You may now respond appropriately, and preferably with more of your trademark intelligence.

 

[GamerCat_]

Not yet, but soon. Japan is folding, sad to say.

No it isn't. You just have a cuckold fetish and an Americut post-cultural complex which you need to cope with.

Capcom is competing for ugly women and even trannies.

Any example from companies not dependent on pursuing the US/Euro market?

Street Fighter is another example of Japan successfully reading the room. Street Fighter is for western niggers and degenerates. And even then while doing that they do it better than we do. They have niggers and genderfreaks but they make them look like characters from The Fifth Element.



Evropabros... La France has fallen... sad to say...

 

[Hell Swarm]

They have niggers and genderfreaks but they make them look like characters from The Fifth Element.

Hapa makes dishonest post. Says it's okay for men to be fags and women to be builder than Zangief because Japans doing it.

Ignores other games doing the same ugly shit as Japan.

Another day. Another pedophile hapa making bad posts to defend a race of people who hate his guts lol

 

[Lyric Suite]

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THE PART YOU RESPOND TO IS ABOVE

Oh this.

To be honest, i don't see where you are extrapolating i have an issue with the artistic element in games out of the argument i'm making.

What i get out of RPGs besides the gameplay part is the same i get out of any artistic medium. What i get out of the story of Torment is the same i get out of every story in a book.

The point of the argument is to determine whether games can be considered to be art qua games. The problem for me is that the "gameplay" part, the element that defines what a game is and makes it different from other mediums, doesn't seem to fall under the category of art.

The only response i got that approximated a kind of rebuttal to my argument is the idea interactivity in games alters the way one experiences the other, non-gaming elements. For instance, the fact Torment makes you directly involved with the narrative instead of you being a passive agent like in a book or a movie is probably a point worth examining. It's certainly interesting how the impact those non-gaming elements have on us feels stronger than they would be if we were to isolate them. But even then i still don't see gameplay in its essence to be artistic in nature and to be honest i'm not entirely sure i'm comfortable with the idea you can add value to an art the art itself doesn't posses just because you associated it with a context that is outside the art in question. This is not an issue exclusive to games of course. In movies too it's interesting how for instance a soundtrack becomes memorable because of the context in which it is used but wouldn't be all that great (or as great anyway) if isolated. Like, even the best film scores don't really compare to actual music. The greast film soundtrack is still not in the same league as the best classical compositions, and the fact context adds value that isn't actually there when the soundtrack is examined on its own merit is interesting to say the least.

This is not a new thing btw. In classical music, there's a similar issue with opera vis instrumental compositions, all the more when a few artists begun to conceive of music the value of which was partially related to an extra musical "context". This is known as programmatic music and was a central element in the music of Hector Berlioz which was then transfered to artists like Franz Liszt and Wagner. This artistic movement created a backlash among those who believed all this "extra" meaning to the music that wasn't actually in the music itself was a degeneration. Those are usually known as the proponents of what is now called "absolute music", boasting figures like Johannes Brahms (the arch enemy of Wagner). Back then i sided with the proponents of absolute music which might explain the issue i have with the idea games ought to be considered art rather than interactive toys that just happen to have art in them.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Was it? I've never played DMC5 and never will, and nothing from the old games struck me as disjointed or hard to follow.

Yes the series cannon was a mess
You had DMC2 which had a widly different characterization of Dante than any other game, and its place on the timeline was never made clear l(ike 3, 1 and 4 were) so people just assumed it was happened at the very end of it
Then you have some mangas and the novels, the first of which had Kamiya as co-writer and he expanded alot Dante's characterization and background
Yet despite that, none of the games ackowledge those books
The same goes for the anime despite being written by Bingo Morihashi (which wrote for most games in the series)
And speaking of Bingo, after the fiasco that was DMC4, he released a novelization of the game with all the plot points and scenario that were cut from the final release (which are substancial)

It's designed to pass the torch to Nero but we all know they aren't making a DMC without Dante. Would immediately bomb if they tried it.

That was more DMC4 thing
5 is about all three sons of Sparda and giving closure to their characters, so they all get a fair amount of screen time (Vergil gets it through V, his human soul)

And since 5 reveal trailer, it's clear that Nero has been fully accepeted as another protagonist for the series (I suspect that's thanks to Donte putting the antagonism towards Nero addition in DMC4 into a new perspective)

 

[Lyric Suite]

Not yet, but soon. Japan is folding, sad to say.

No it isn't. You just have a cuckold fetish and an Americut post-cultural complex which you need to cope with.

Japan just announced they are gonna start to admit migrants.

Call me a doomer but the feeling they are starting to buckle is definitely palpable to me.

Street Fighter is another example of Japan successfully reading the room.

Are you saying Japanese games are just commercial products then, and thus have nothing artistic about them?

Because it seems to me this is what you are arguing here bro. So they put trannies in their games because they think this is what westerners want (westerns of course don't actually want any of that shit, but that's another question), which would imply all they care about is the sales and there's no real artistic vision.

The more you know.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

But even then i still don't see gameplay in its essence to be artistic in nature

A few pages earlier:

If we are talking about art in the "higher" sense, i'd say the central element is the nature of what is being expressed combined with the craft (or rather genius) required to bring it about.

So your definition is in agreeance with most common notion (which as been the dominant one since the 17th century)
Which holds that Art is an activity that involves creative or imaginative talent in order to produce a work expressive of conceptual ideas and evaluated by its degree of technical proficiency, beauty and emotional power (plus the merit of said ideas)

There's literally no conflict here

Most likely you're just uncomfortable with the idea because of the prejudice still associated to videogames

 

[Lyric Suite]

There's literally no conflict here

You're just uncomfortable with the idea because of the prejudice still associated to videogames

Well, there's also the fact no game as of yet even remotely approaches the level of greatness found in other arts.

That's why it was a bit cringy to me when people started to argue games are an art with people like Roger Ebert and then making things worse by citing the most retarded current slop as examples of games as art. I'm sure the guy who has seen some of the greatest masterpieces of cinema over the years is really going to be impressed by shit like The Last of Us lmao.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Play Pathologic 2

 

[DJOGamer PT]

shit like The Last of Us lmao.

this precisely why I also don't take the mainstream discourse of "games as art" serioulsy
these midwits have completely poisoned it by pushing slop like this

 

[Cryomancer]

Japan just announced they are gonna start to admit migrants.

Depends what types of immigrants they accept. If they accept other Asians and people of Japanese ancestry easier, they will gonna have a much easier time integrating them into the Japanese society than if they accept people from extremely different cultures.

 

[GamerCat_]

Street Fighter is another example of Japan successfully reading the room.

Are you saying Japanese games are just commercial products then, and thus have nothing artistic about them?

The idea of a purely commercial media strikes me as impossible. As does the idea of not catering to an audience. Even extremely individualistic artists not out to please cannot purge the rest of the world from their minds. To some extent they are playing to their audience. If you're suggesting that wanting to please particular people taints art, you should probably reconsider that position considering how classical music was made (patronage). But of course you aren't saying anything, you're afraid of me and you react like an animal. You only incidentally possess the faculty of language. These are words, but they don't mean anything. This is a panicked lashing motion taking the form of words. Like a small animal being picked up (my relation to this forum, don't worry I'll put you down again soon).

Because it seems to me this is what you are arguing here bro. So they put trannies in their games because they think this is what westerners want (westerns of course don't actually want any of that shit, but that's another question), which would imply all they care about is the sales and there's no real artistic vision.

Again, caring solely about sales I think is impossible even in the most cynical cases. Even in the case of a literal scam like 'The Day Before' there was at least an impersonation of prestige.

It's impossible to assemble a coherent line of critique you could be following when you so willfully discard everything you've built up reacting to the last thing you saw over and over again. The Japanese are catering to a largely western audience. They know who plays Street Fighter. This implies that they care about sales, among other things. There is no rational reason to take this to mean that they only care about sales. This isn't even an attack. It's you pretending to be retarded in some thoughtless play of scoring an own. Are you attempting to beg questions here? Do you believe any of this is uncomfortable to consider?

And putting aside how absurd the idea of a pure interest in sales is, are you suggesting that when other priorities exist artistic vision is possible? Where do we go from there? Is it possible to have artistic vision when making video games but they aren't art? Of course we're just circling the same issue forever here. If you don't believe art can be defined you should stop making such specific claims about it. Even if it were a feeling, if it were a halfway coherent or plausible one people might leave you alone. But you're so obviously advancing and receding in accordance with your preferences and bias than any kind of understanding that this whole thing is a bad joke. How have you been tolerated for so long here?

The more you know.

What do we know?

There's literally no conflict here

You're just uncomfortable with the idea because of the prejudice still associated to videogames

Well, there's also the fact no game as of yet even remotely approaches the level of greatness found in other arts.

If you simply said you didn't care about video games compared to other media that would be something. But I have a feeling you probably don't have 56k posts over at BachCodex.

That's why it was a bit cringy to me when people started to argue games are an art with people like Roger Ebert and then making things worse by citing the most retarded current slop as examples of games as art. I'm sure the guy who has seen some of the greatest masterpieces of cinema over the years is really going to be impressed by shit like The Last of Us lmao.

Roger Ebert was impressed by Cosmology of Kyoto.

 

[Morenatsu.]

They should make serious films about talkings animuls

 

[Lyric Suite]

If you simply said you didn't care about video games compared to other media that would be something. But I have a feeling you probably don't have 56k posts over at BachCodex.

I do actually but my old account has been closed because of my political trolling lmao.

Classical music forums are full of retarded l1brul boomers, sad to say.

Anyway, if Japanese developers can easily be swayed into putting trannies into their games under the mistaken assumption this is what audiences want (like i said, western players are not asking for this), than Japanese games are worthless.

You would have been better off admitting Japanese companies are folding under the pressure from the woke west instead of trying to come up with an exscuse and end up with a worse proposition as a result.

 

[Matador]

If you simply said you didn't care about video games compared to other media that would be something. But I have a feeling you probably don't have 56k posts over at BachCodex.

I do actually but my old account has been closed because of my political trolling lmao.

Classical music forums are full of retarded l1brul boomers, sad to say.

Anyway, if Japanese developers can easily be swayed into putting trannies into their games under the mistaken assumption this is what audiences want (like i said, western players are not asking for this), than Japanese games are worthless.

You would have been better off admitting Japanese companies are folding under the pressure from the woke west instead of trying to come up with an exscuse and end up with a worse proposition as a result.

I agree, we can already see syptoms of Japan game companies surrendering to Clown World

 

[Lyric Suite]

If you simply said you didn't care about video games compared to other media that would be something. But I have a feeling you probably don't have 56k posts over at BachCodex.

I do actually but my old account has been closed because of my political trolling lmao.

Classical music forums are full of retarded l1brul boomers, sad to say.

Anyway, if Japanese developers can easily be swayed into putting trannies into their games under the mistaken assumption this is what audiences want (like i said, western players are not asking for this), than Japanese games are worthless.

You would have been better off admitting Japanese companies are folding under the pressure from the woke west instead of trying to come up with an exscuse and end up with a worse proposition as a result.

I agree, we can already see syptoms of Japan game companies surrendering to Clown World

The thing is that Japan was always a recipient for some of the worst ideas from the west ever since they lost WWII. It's how you get stuff like this:



It wasn't gonna take much energy to push them towards the woke mind virus since they already accepted many of the same evils of modernity.

 

[Cryomancer]

Very informative about the situation with Japanese entertainment.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Very informative about the situation with Japanese entertainment.

Lolicons are doOmed!!!11

 

[Hell Swarm]

You had DMC2 which had a widly different characterization of Dante than any other game

DMC2 Dante appears in a few games outside of DMC2. As much as I like Crazy Pizza Man, DMC2's Dante has some nice elements to his personality and he does well in cross over games. It's too late to reverse it now but keeping him around would have been nice.

Are you saying Japanese games are just commercial products then, and thus have nothing artistic about them?

They always have been. Putting Japan on a pedestal is ignorant as fuck. They make commercial products the same as everyone else does.

Japan just announced they are gonna start to admit migrants.

Depends what types of immigrants they accept. If they accept other Asians and people of Japanese ancestry easier, they will gonna have a much easier time integrating them into the Japanese society than if they accept people from extremely different cultures.

How many weebs do you know who moved to Japan or intend to? The country is already being overrun by fat weirdos obsessed with teenage girls. It's not a mythical place where only pure blood slant eyes live. Tokyo is as pozzed as London, New York and Paris.

 

[Lyric Suite]

White people moving to Japan isn't much of a thing i think. Weebs will visit the place and then leave, how many are actually gonna stay? The few that tried weren't particularly happy with the choice to begin with from what i've seen. Life in Japan isn't all fun and games.

This is what Japan should actually fear:

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Tokyo is as pozzed as London, New York and Paris.

That's why you move to Osaka, much better place.

Also, getting laid as a foreigner is kinda easy if you're not a shapeless blob. Japanese women look at white-looking guys the same way white girls look at black men.

 

[GamerCat_]

If you simply said you didn't care about video games compared to other media that would be something. But I have a feeling you probably don't have 56k posts over at BachCodex.

I do actually but my old account has been closed because of my political trolling lmao.

Classical music forums are full of retarded l1brul boomers, sad to say.

I'm sure, I'm sure. I bet in reality you have as much to say about music as you do about video games.

Anyway, if Japanese developers can easily be swayed into putting trannies into their games under the mistaken assumption this is what audiences want (like i said, western players are not asking for this), than Japanese games are worthless.

I don't see how. Could you explain? How we get from A to B here?

You would have been better off admitting Japanese companies are folding under the pressure from the woke west instead of trying to come up with an exscuse and end up with a worse proposition as a result.

What is the bad proposition? And again, I see nothing to admit. Libtard power is very weak in Japan. Weakest in the first world by far. This is a commercial consideration which you cannot raise a coherent argument against (so far anyway, prove me wrong).

The thing is that Japan was always a recipient for some of the worst ideas from the west ever since they lost WWII. It's how you get stuff like this:



It wasn't gonna take much energy to push them towards the woke mind virus since they already accepted many of the same evils of modernity.

The worst ideas of the west... we did this? If this is a distinct evil of modernity, why isn't it everywhere? I suppose that only in the broadest sense possible you're talking about a class of phenomena, but what might that be? What do you think you're looking at when you look at this?

Because to me this looks quite charming. The priest who started this project has some interesting things to say here. He sees the machine as taking the role of a buddha statue, rather than a priest. Of course, the purpose of religious iconography is not to decorate. A buddha statue is meant to be something you learn from. Would a priest of 1000 years ago have found a buddha statue that can recite teachings to the faithful a bad or evil thing? This whole thing strikes me as utterly Japanese rather than a sign of any western clown world whatever.

These are people who created a robot to speak in the voice of buddha. I don't think they're going to easily take to anything we're into.

Very informative about the situation with Japanese entertainment.

Why do you have to subject us to ten minutes of this stupid voice rather than just giving us the information? This is obscene.

Are you saying Japanese games are just commercial products then, and thus have nothing artistic about them?

They always have been. Putting Japan on a pedestal is ignorant as fuck. They make commercial products the same as everyone else does.

Their commercial products are much, much better is the point.

Japan just announced they are gonna start to admit migrants.

Depends what types of immigrants they accept. If they accept other Asians and people of Japanese ancestry easier, they will gonna have a much easier time integrating them into the Japanese society than if they accept people from extremely different cultures.

How many weebs do you know who moved to Japan or intend to? The country is already being overrun by fat weirdos obsessed with teenage girls. It's not a mythical place where only pure blood slant eyes live. Tokyo is as pozzed as London, New York and Paris.

There is a certain kind of person who desperately needs to believe this.

That's why you move to Osaka, much better place.

Also, getting laid as a foreigner is kinda easy if you're not a shapeless blob. Japanese women look at white-looking guys the same way white girls look at black men.

Everyone on this site has a cuckold fetish but me.