Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[DemonKing]

Play them - in sequence - they've really aged quite well and are still very playable today.

 

[Dark Matter]

As has been said many times here, the music alone is almost worth it by itself. The tune that plays when you enter Kuldahar? Did I get that right? By Jeremy Soule I think? My bad, Inon Zur. Is a very memorable one.

Agreed about the atmosphere.

The soundtrack is by Jeremy Soule and yeah, the Kuldahar theme is amazing. However, my personal favorite is the Town of Lonelywood music from the Heart of Winter expansion.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

The series is probably worth a try if you don't mind like the Infinity Engine combat and are up for a lot of dungeon crawling. Here's some assorted points about the games that stick with me...maybe you'll find them helpful.

IWD1

-It's fun to make an entire party, but you definitely want to have some idea of what you are doing. A poorly chosen party, whether for power or fun problems will result in a lot of headaches. On the other hand, you do have a lot of freedom.

-The game is "challenging" but sometimes that's not always because of good encounter design. Sometimes the game just throws curve balls at you, like early on you will be going through a dungeon, possibly just having picked up your first magic weapons, and then the game will spring undead on you that are immune to normal weapons. Thanks to the semi-randomized loot, you may not even have a weapon anyone in your party is capable of using well, much less your Fighters. Other times, encounters are nothing but numerous beaters descending on your party. Dealing with a few extra-beefy beaters is nothing tricky, and numerous weak mooks are also nothing difficult. But enemies of moderate health and damage output in large numbers really do bring the Infinity Engine combat into a state in which it becomes a little hectic, and difficult to control. Often times you'll have to run your weaker, less frontline capable party members around if an enemy locks onto them, rather than being able to use positioning to your advantage.

-Difficulty as you progress is rather counter-intuitive. It starts challenging, stays challenging up until a huge spike (the Hand for those in the know), and then plummets for a while, only recovering for short spurts. Fortunately, it never becomes too easy, but I little short of my sweet spot for difficulty.

-Dungeons are large, have many levels, and are mostly well designed, and atmospheric. Which is good, as that's where you spend most of the game. One or two dungeons are a little weak, but those are much shorter than the main ones.

-Loot is a little wonky as the a portion of it being semi-randomized can make for some annoyances, namely a scarcity of the type of weapons/armor you need and a glut of what you don't. You shouldn't have much trouble, just don't make your entire party halberd-freaks or something. Pro-tip, excellent swords and bows are always in abundance. Especially if you are a Paladin or are OCD about the quest in the beginning.

-The endgame is a little weak, mostly due to the rather bland final boss fight, but I can think of few RPGs that actually have a fully satisfying endgame sequence.

-Very nice aesthetics, second only to Torment on the Infinity Engine. Backgrounds look nice, the music is nice, and enemy sprites look really nice. While I have a personal taste towards some of Bioware's works, Black Isle did a much better job technically (and arguably otherwise) on the sprites in the Infinity Engine. Hell, they even do a good job weaving together a story.

IWD2

-3rd Edition rules....are a mixed blessing. I don't particularly like them much myself, at least not in IWD2, where I don't think they were implemented well at all.

-Experience scaling worked terribly, discouraged any use of the races with level modifiers, and encouraged stifling of level-ups later in the game, in order to avoid fighting through tough encounters for chump-experience.

-Encounter design...sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. A lot of thought went into the encounters, but the results aren't always good. Sometimes you get a very creative fight, in which enemies use abilities wisely, there are an interesting mix, and perhaps there is some unique gimmick. Other times you have an encounter that was supposed to be fun and interesting, but quickly becomes annoying due to a gimmick gone wrong, like teleporting enemies from behind. Other times, you face a stupidly overpowered mofo with too much hp, multitudes of resistances/immunities, and enormous wrecking potential. Don't get me wrong, some of the encounters/fights in this game are brilliantly designed (the bridge fight, holy avenger, battle for kuldahar) but others are downright awful (basically most of the big fights in the last dungeon, including the abysmal final boss fight).

-Dungeons in this game got a little too creative at times. Most are good, but some are annoying and overwrought (ice temple, stupid time travel part, monastery trials).

-The original Icewind Dale, in the expansion, had an option for "Heart of Fury" mode, an enhanced difficulty that added scripting and enemies to many key encounters in order to make them significantly more challenging, as well as tweaking global variables. It was tough...but fun, and fair. Heart of Fury in IWD2 is just plain stupid. It's a "new game plus" that ups the levels, abilities, and stats of all enemies such that the very first goblins are on par with a party that completed the game in normal mode. Thanks to the 3rd Edition rules, the game is reduced to nothing but cheese tactics, and powergaming in which if you ain't a spellcaster...get out.

-Again, great aesthetics. Sprites look nice, backgrounds are quite pretty, and the music is well done. The story however, is completely retarded, and feels like they tried to cram in as many references to the first game as possible. It's better off ignored.

All in all, they're both worth trying, even though I am a little harsh on IWD2.

 

[Daemongar]

I had played IWD and IWD2 when they came out. It was obvious they put a lot of thought into the fights and were trying to work around BG1 type exploits (buff one char, send them in, rest of party stays back, repeat.) A lot of enemies appearing behind the group, or enemies that couldn't be kited.

Around Christmas I was at a friends house and he left IWD2 running on his computer as we spoke. It took me a while to realize he was playing IWD2. I was amazed at the level of detail, graphics, and sound. Shit, I was shocked that they put that much work into a game that was essentially in BG1&2's shadow. But there is no doubt that IWD is a quality game for what it is. People can argue about the engine, story, all that, but it was never billed as some epic story.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

-Difficulty as you progress is rather counter-intuitive. It starts challenging, stays challenging up until a huge spike (the Hand for those in the know), and then plummets for a while, only recovering for short spurts. Fortunately, it never becomes too easy, but I little short of my sweet spot for difficulty.

You thought the Hand was a spike? In my experience beating Yxonomei-whatever bitch was the hardest thing in the game and everything afterwords was just a lazy stroll through easyville.

-Experience scaling worked terribly, discouraged any use of the races with level modifiers, and encouraged stifling of level-ups later in the game, in order to avoid fighting through tough encounters for chump-experience.

Actually, these two kind of counterbalanced each other. The more races with a level penalty you took the lower your effective level, the more experience you got and the more they would catch up to other party members. The only colossal failure was that adding a lvl 1 to a party of 5 lvl 20s let your lvl 20s suddenly gain several thousand XP per kill when before they got 0.

-The original Icewind Dale, in the expansion, had an option for "Heart of Fury" mode, an enhanced difficulty that added scripting and enemies to many key encounters in order to make them significantly more challenging, as well as tweaking global variables. It was tough...but fun, and fair. Heart of Fury in IWD2 is just plain stupid. It's a "new game plus" that ups the levels, abilities, and stats of all enemies such that the very first goblins are on par with a party that completed the game in normal mode. Thanks to the 3rd Edition rules, the game is reduced to nothing but cheese tactics, and powergaming in which if you ain't a spellcaster...get out.

Just to make clear how horrible HoF is in IWD2. Enemy AB would skyrocket to around 30 minimum and 50ish maximum. Through standard equipment and buffs a fighter would happily live through normal IWD2 with 30 armor, and 35 would be considered excellent. In HoF, 30 armor is no different from 0 armor and 35 armor still means you get hit as much as an unbuffed wizard did in normal mode. But summons you create ARE buffed by HoF, so every battle becomes a test of how many summons you can make and how many times you can use Wail of the Banshee to wipe groups.

 

[desocupado]

I am doing an Icewind Dale 2 Lp.

There's the game, plus funny dialogue.

Just saying.

 

[Monkeysphere]

Dont listen to edgy haters trying to fit in
IWD1&2 are good games

 

[visions]

I vaguely remember the volcano... wasn't there something about having to finish a quest a certain way or it keeps repeating? I do remember it being annoying, but don't quite recall why.

Yes, something like that.

 

[thesheeep]

Oh, but one thing should be said:

In IWD2, do not play wizards.
Especially not specialized ones, as you will never find all spells (they are not even random finds), and especially especially not in small groups (you will have found your first lvl 3 spell when you could actually cast lvl 5 spells, since the spells you find are not scaled to your level). And shops never have all spells of a certain level.
All of that makes wizards almost unplayable. I am unsure if this is the same in IWD1.


.. and about KotC:
Great, now I am stuck with a great, addictive D&D dungeon crawling game, while the perspective makes my brain hurt.
Also... wizards are more sorcerers and clerics are actually more favoured souls. Wonder what that is about. It's definitely not exact D&D 3.5 rules.

 

[Gosling]

I vaguely remember the volcano... wasn't there something about having to finish a quest a certain way or it keeps repeating? I do remember it being annoying, but don't quite recall why.

Yes, something like that.

You have to clear the same level 5 times. There's a time-loop and every time you clear it you shift back in time and return to the same level again - only slightly changed and filled with new enemies.
Doesn't sound good even on paper.

IWD2 had a great beginning - up until the Ice Temple the game is fantastic and even better than IWD1, then level design goes downhill, with a few exceptions.

Have fun with the Ice Temple and shit like this:

Overall as has been mentioned before:

1 is usually (and rightly) considered superior to 2, so you should defiintely acquire it. Better music, a more cohesive structure, better atmosphere, better story development (not that it matters in a dungeon crawler)... besides, playing them in sequence is fun so you get to revisit some familiar places.

IWD2 has the advantages of the D&D 3d Edition ruleset and also features some nifty skillchecks, but is overall less cohesive.

Both are great games and deserve to be played. Preferably in sequence.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

.. and about KotC:
Great, now I am stuck with a great, addictive D&D dungeon crawling game, while the perspective makes my brain hurt.
Also... wizards are more sorcerers and clerics are actually more favoured souls. Wonder what that is about. It's definitely not exact D&D 3.5 rules.

It's like in the Darksun games, also it's for the better anyways.

Just to make clear how horrible HoF is in IWD2. Enemy AB would skyrocket to around 30 minimum and 50ish maximum. Through standard equipment and buffs a fighter would happily live through normal IWD2 with 30 armor, and 35 would be considered excellent. In HoF, 30 armor is no different from 0 armor and 35 armor still means you get hit as much as an unbuffed wizard did in normal mode. But summons you create ARE buffed by HoF, so every battle becomes a test of how many summons you can make and how many times you can use Wail of the Banshee to wipe groups.

I replayed the IWDs not so long ago and did play IWD2 HoF, but with the Tactics mod installed (from Sorcerers Place), I'm not sure if what happened was due to that mod or if it was a bug, but when I started the game and arrived at Targos everyone in my party got ~20 generic AC on top of what they had, so I could play the game without having to hide behind summons which was much better.

edit: ok I looked it up and the IWD2 tactics mod does indeed grant HP and AC bonuses for the party in HoF. It's a good thing because it let's you play in a more normal manner instead of being forced to cheese all the time. Otoh the mod makes things more difficult, especially early on during normal mod you might encounter major problems when having a caster heavy party due to enemy spellcasters spamming dispel magic all the time. And disintegrate, I remember many reloads due to disintegrated party members, only the pally/sorcerers had sufficient saves. An example: the fight against the child abducting witch near the wandering village was so hard, I had to reload several times, plus when I finally prevailed only the 2 sorcerers had survived. But you know what? I thought: only 4 casualties? Thanks god it's over, let's revive them and go on. Interestingly in HoF the same fight was much easier.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

The first game wasn't too bad as far as this rubbish goes. Always gave up the second game from boredom.

To be honest, I had more challenge from the Baldur's Gate series.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

The series is probably worth a try if you don't mind like the Infinity Engine combat and are up for a lot of dungeon crawling. Here's some assorted points about the games that stick with me...maybe you'll find them helpful.

IWD1

-It's fun to make an entire party, but you definitely want to have some idea of what you are doing. A poorly chosen party, whether for power or fun problems will result in a lot of headaches. On the other hand, you do have a lot of freedom.

-The game is "challenging" but sometimes that's not always because of good encounter design. Sometimes the game just throws curve balls at you, like early on you will be going through a dungeon, possibly just having picked up your first magic weapons, and then the game will spring undead on you that are immune to normal weapons. Thanks to the semi-randomized loot, you may not even have a weapon anyone in your party is capable of using well, much less your Fighters. Other times, encounters are nothing but numerous beaters descending on your party. Dealing with a few extra-beefy beaters is nothing tricky, and numerous weak mooks are also nothing difficult. But enemies of moderate health and damage output in large numbers really do bring the Infinity Engine combat into a state in which it becomes a little hectic, and difficult to control. Often times you'll have to run your weaker, less frontline capable party members around if an enemy locks onto them, rather than being able to use positioning to your advantage.

-Difficulty as you progress is rather counter-intuitive. It starts challenging, stays challenging up until a huge spike (the Hand for those in the know), and then plummets for a while, only recovering for short spurts. Fortunately, it never becomes too easy, but I little short of my sweet spot for difficulty.

-Dungeons are large, have many levels, and are mostly well designed, and atmospheric. Which is good, as that's where you spend most of the game. One or two dungeons are a little weak, but those are much shorter than the main ones.

-Loot is a little wonky as the a portion of it being semi-randomized can make for some annoyances, namely a scarcity of the type of weapons/armor you need and a glut of what you don't. You shouldn't have much trouble, just don't make your entire party halberd-freaks or something. Pro-tip, excellent swords and bows are always in abundance. Especially if you are a Paladin or are OCD about the quest in the beginning.

-The endgame is a little weak, mostly due to the rather bland final boss fight, but I can think of few RPGs that actually have a fully satisfying endgame sequence.

-Very nice aesthetics, second only to Torment on the Infinity Engine. Backgrounds look nice, the music is nice, and enemy sprites look really nice. While I have a personal taste towards some of Bioware's works, Black Isle did a much better job technically (and arguably otherwise) on the sprites in the Infinity Engine. Hell, they even do a good job weaving together a story.

IWD2

-3rd Edition rules....are a mixed blessing. I don't particularly like them much myself, at least not in IWD2, where I don't think they were implemented well at all.

-Experience scaling worked terribly, discouraged any use of the races with level modifiers, and encouraged stifling of level-ups later in the game, in order to avoid fighting through tough encounters for chump-experience.

-Encounter design...sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. A lot of thought went into the encounters, but the results aren't always good. Sometimes you get a very creative fight, in which enemies use abilities wisely, there are an interesting mix, and perhaps there is some unique gimmick. Other times you have an encounter that was supposed to be fun and interesting, but quickly becomes annoying due to a gimmick gone wrong, like teleporting enemies from behind. Other times, you face a stupidly overpowered mofo with too much hp, multitudes of resistances/immunities, and enormous wrecking potential. Don't get me wrong, some of the encounters/fights in this game are brilliantly designed (the bridge fight, holy avenger, battle for kuldahar) but others are downright awful (basically most of the big fights in the last dungeon, including the abysmal final boss fight).

-Dungeons in this game got a little too creative at times. Most are good, but some are annoying and overwrought (ice temple, stupid time travel part, monastery trials).

-The original Icewind Dale, in the expansion, had an option for "Heart of Fury" mode, an enhanced difficulty that added scripting and enemies to many key encounters in order to make them significantly more challenging, as well as tweaking global variables. It was tough...but fun, and fair. Heart of Fury in IWD2 is just plain stupid. It's a "new game plus" that ups the levels, abilities, and stats of all enemies such that the very first goblins are on par with a party that completed the game in normal mode. Thanks to the 3rd Edition rules, the game is reduced to nothing but cheese tactics, and powergaming in which if you ain't a spellcaster...get out.

-Again, great aesthetics. Sprites look nice, backgrounds are quite pretty, and the music is well done. The story however, is completely retarded, and feels like they tried to cram in as many references to the first game as possible. It's better off ignored.

All in all, they're both worth trying, even though I am a little harsh on IWD2.

HOLY FUCK its Edward R Murrow. Nice to see you posting again

 

[Ringhausen]

There's the game, plus funny dialogue.

You mean the "Do wolves have scrolls in anus LOLZ!" and "UR THE ONLY ONE MOVING WHILE WE SIT IN STORES OMGLOL SO SILLY!!!"

Shit was atrocious.

 

[syllopsium]

They're both good combat heavy games, but IWD1 is more forgiving of a poorly constructed party.

The strength of IWD1 is that it contains just enough plot, and almost perfect pacing that keeps you pushing forward. The final boss fight I found a ridiculous spike in difficulty, though.

IWD2 is more accomplished than 1. Better graphics, interface, interaction, tactics, plot and banter. Unfortunately it also requires reasonable knowledge of AD&D 3rd edition or liberal use of a spoiler during character creation - otherwise you'll have a few problems during the fort sequence and get defeated when you reach the river.

Other people may enjoy a challenge more than I do, but I don't like dying continually. I've been slowly working through IWD2 for the last few years (I take a long break when I find it frustrating), and it is enjoyable.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

IWD2 had a great beginning - up until the Ice Temple the game is fantastic and even better than IWD1, then level design goes downhill, with a few exceptions.

Wasn't the first IWD2 Level an Avellone creation?

 

[Albers]

The way both BG and IWD are painted is too extreme. BG has plenty of combat and IWD has a decent story, decent voice-acting and dialogue.

 

[deus101]

The way both BG and IWD are painted is too extreme. BG has plenty of combat and IWD has a decent story, decent voice-acting and dialogue.

Whats decent about the infinitiy engines Voice acting is that they are rare and reserved were they are needed.

 

[Saxon1974]

Playing Icewind dale I now.

Agree about the music and atmosphere. This game really make you feel like you are there in the snow cold of the North part of the Realms. I think thats a key to making a game great, a distinct interesting atmosphere with great music to back it up.

I don't normally like linear games but so far this one is quite engrossing. Im sure i'll get tired of all the combat eventually though.

Anyone know where I can download the soundtrack? Apparently its not easy to find unless you buy one of the Icewindale Collections....I see it on amazon for 100$

I dont want to torrent it either....

 

[thesisko]

Buy it from www.gog.com

 

[Konjad]

Damn... you remind me that I never played Trials of the Luremaster... is it good?

 

[Suchy]

Bored me to uninstall.exe somewhere around the middle. If you like constant, tedious h&s in a dungeon, play it.

 

[piydek]

The first game has better atmosphere and it really is more cohesive. The story development is very nice. A bit typical, but so very nicely done that it doesn't matter at all. The story managed to keep me in and interested.

The second one definitely has better encounters. The story is good as well, not as cohesive as the story in first one but still makes sense and it's interesting. Where the second one really shines is combat encounter design. Different groups of stronger enemies with different strengths and weaknesses requiring different approaches. Very nice combat. The first one had quite a bit of grinding against large numbers of weaker enemies at certain places. 2nd one is a lot better in that regard.

Both games are excellent and I'd play them 1st one first and then the 2nd one.

 

[Saxon1974]

Buy it from www.gog.com

Great didn't know they included the soundtrack. 9.99 I can handle. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Stygian Lurker]

I love both IWD games. Had a lot of fun with them. If you like the idea of a dungeon crawler with ok story and ad&d/d&d rules, than by all means try them. You wont regret it.