The Guild Wars 2 Thread

[Kane]

One of the many things I hate about GW2 vs GW1 is how GW2 loves big fucking numbers. I guess kids prefer seeing that you have 500000hp rather than measly 500.

The big numbers aren't the issue but the ratio between HP and damage dealt. If I had 10k damage, it would matter not if you'd deal 2-3k damage per hit. GW1 suffers from the same problem, the fact that the absolute values fo the respective numbers for HP and damage are lower is a visual issue only.

If an average mob in your game takes longer to dispatch than an average mob in Diablo 2, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

 

[Black]

Yeah, I'm talking about the visual problem. I'm disgusted with gorrilions of digits that serve only to give youngsters something to fap to.

 

[Kane]

Yeah, I'm talking about the visual problem. I'm disgusted with gorrilions of digits that serve only to give youngsters something to fap to.

I agree that GW1 is the more intelligent game, there's no doubt about that. There's only one road you can take to MMORPGification...

 

[Jadeite]

Another fucking game that wants me to upgrade my computer? They can take their graphics and shove them up their ass. Graphics aren't the problem today, gameplay is. I guess we know where their priorities are.

 

[Black]

Yeah, I'm talking about the visual problem. I'm disgusted with gorrilions of digits that serve only to give youngsters something to fap to.

I agree that GW1 is the more intelligent game, there's no doubt about that. There's only one road you can take to MMORPGification...

Right now my only hope lies in the WoD MMO, if it fails, everything dies.

 

[Kane]

Yeah, I'm talking about the visual problem. I'm disgusted with gorrilions of digits that serve only to give youngsters something to fap to.

I agree that GW1 is the more intelligent game, there's no doubt about that. There's only one road you can take to MMORPGification...

Right now my only hope lies in the WoD MMO, if it fails, everything dies.

world of darkness is shit.

planetside 2 on the other hand is glorious. not an RPG though. (but who really wants that? RPG is synonym for terrible)

 

[Average Manatee]

One of the many things I hate about GW2 vs GW1 is how GW2 loves big fucking numbers. I guess kids prefer seeing that you have 500000hp rather than measly 500.

The big numbers aren't the issue but the ratio between HP and damage dealt. If I had 10k damage, it would matter not if you'd deal 2-3k damage per hit. GW1 suffers from the same problem, the fact that the absolute values fo the respective numbers for HP and damage are lower is a visual issue only.

If an average mob in your game takes longer to dispatch than an average mob in Diablo 2, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

If mobs in GW1 had half or less health it would allow AoE characters and enemies to dominate ridiculously. They are already dominant in PvE and HA, but such a change would let them literally win before anything could touch them. Diablo 2 is based around having huge alpha strike damage that ensures 95% of enemies don't hit you or stacking equipment bonuses to the point that they do 0 damage. GW isn't about that, it's about a more even battle between parties.

GW1 feels pretty damn good in PvP. A few PvE enemies can be a bit much at times, but it's usually due to skills that hard counter your damage rather than pure HP bloat. GW2 definitely seems to take the ridiculousness up a magnitude or two. Regular event monsters that are on our level and at most 2-3x as big can take a beating from 20 characters for several minutes. Fucked up man. Even the largest and baddest of GW1 bosses didn't generally take more than a minute or two, and that was against god-like enemies.

Sure, it's silly that an enemy can survive decapitate. But you have to have some sort of survivability else the game turns into an alpha strike-fest.


And yes, huge HP numbers in general are dumbfuck. You shouldn't need more than 3 significant digits in normal game play, so there is no reason to go over 1k.

 

[Zed]

health pools in GW2 are fine. it allows for dot dmg builds (condition) being viable.

I do agree some event bosses might have a little too much though.

 

[Black]

health pools in GW2 are fine. it allows for dot dmg builds (condition) being viable.

I do agree some event bosses might have a little too much though.

Except it also did in GW1, noob. l2p, god.

 

[Jadeite]

It's impossible to have a good MMORPG be popular today. Mark my words. WoW killer? More popular than WoW? Get me the fuck out of there. What serious gamer really keeps an up-to-date PC any more? So he can play CoD 6? God, this game must be bad. Stop 'innovating' and start going backwards. Why are WoW and LoL popular? Anybody's computer can play them, for one. What do serious gamers not give a shit about? The latest in fucking graphics. So they aren't marketing to serious gamers, they aren't marketing to the masses... they're fucking idiots. I'll play an MMORPG with Warcraft II graphics if they get the damn gameplay right. No solo play, not even at the early levels (read the fucking manual if you want a tutorial, anybody who hasn't played an MMORPG by now isn't the target), exp. loss on death, CRs, the screen goes fucking pitch black at night unless you have a light (and lights extinguish themselves over time, unless they're magical, which is rare as shit), gaining a level takes a few hours even at level 1, no instancing, intelligent AI, devs. who defy spoiler sites and randomize puzzles and spawns, sometimes without patch notes, NO RESPAWNING OUTDOOR MOBS (if you kill the wildlife, which should never be easy, it doesn't magically come back).... but all this'll never happen, good MMORPGs can't be popular today. The best you can get, and it's still not really that good, is Project 1999 with 400 people on the server. And Everquest was too damn easy in the first place. You should never be able to stand around in a dangerous dungeon and kill static spawns over and over. Dungeon groups should be invasions, plain and simple, constantly moving, thinking, on your toes. If you fail, your reputation on the server takes a huge hit, and you're last in line for joining groups in a handful of dungeons with long respawn rates. Full PvP of course is allowed, with player accountability. After killing so many players, you can't enter cities, guards start chasing you down like in a Daggerfall, posses are formed to hunt you down, etc. Reputation is everything. Realism prevails. Survival of the fittest.

 

[Kane]

If mobs in GW1 had half or less health it would allow AoE characters and enemies to dominate ridiculously.

They do it at higher ratios, too. The same happens, it just slows everything down. Sure, you could make an argument for the poor melee constricted warrior, never getting a piece of the action since everything's already dead before he can even touch it... exactly what's happening at those "dynamic events".

You see, basic MMORPG mechanics are a horrible mess. To balance against simply falling over like in d2, devs give mobs metric shittons of HP so they still fall over if enough players are attending. For solo/small groups it becomes a boring grind. Yes, MMORPGs are broken, but that's why they're all shit.

But that's not even the main tragedy with GW2. GW2 is boasting its movement finesse in both controls and applicability of skills right into your face. It becomes quickly apparent however, that this is completely pointless in the context discussed above.

Just to give an example. Say, you're some dude at level 50 facing off vs. 10 level 50 orrian's. You can roll around (evade) twice in a row, after that it's a whopping 12 seconds until you can roll again. Considering the effective DPS of the enemy and your own health pool, it's completely pointless to roll around, the damage mitigated is neigh negligible. That they put evasion on a 12 second cooldown doesn't help matters either. All you can use evade for is evade those mega obvious ultra attacks^TM. Predictable and boring to the max.

Then there are skills that can disable you for 3 seconds and more. Whoever put that into the game should be shot coughizzycough

The moral of the story is, if you want to make a movement based game, you need to make a movement based game and not just put in a lot of gimmicks and start handwaving about MOVEMENT R IMPORTANTE IN OUR GAME in press releases.

GW1 feels pretty damn good in PvP.

I was talking about PvE not PvP. PvP is another beast alltogether. GW1 PvP does suffer from the insane ratios aswell, I've been playing competitively when 2,1,spike was the standard metric against wich all (ok most) builds were measured. (I really don't know how it is today, and I don't care because a.net fucking raped GvG in the ass) Saying that PvP felt "pretty damn good" in GW1 is a massive overstatement -- it was fucking clunky as hell. GW1 offered something very unique however -- a highly coordinated team based combat experience in wich wit and clever planning routinely stomped mindless button mashing -- quite unlike DotA. There are no other games that offered team play at that high level of personal skill and coordination and that's why it was HEAVAN. I'd have loved it, if they expanded on the actual good things of their game in the sequel...

but it's usually due to skills that hard counter your damage rather than pure HP bloat.

It is all HP bloat. It's HP bloat from here to the moon and back. It's fucking horrible.[/quote]

 

[Kane]

health pools in GW2 are fine. it allows for dot dmg builds (condition) being viable.

I do agree some event bosses might have a little too much though.

Except it also did in GW1, noob. l2p, god.

he plays dota, he can't help it. we should offer some sort of counseling by those damaged by WoW and/or DotA.

 

[Black]

health pools in GW2 are fine. it allows for dot dmg builds (condition) being viable.

I do agree some event bosses might have a little too much though.

Except it also did in GW1, noob. l2p, god.

he plays dota, he can't help it. we should offer some sort of counseling by those damaged by WoW and/or DotA.

I blame LoL, it seems it was the one that released everything terrible about MOBA games.

 

[Average Manatee]

Saying that PvP felt "pretty damn good" in GW1 is a massive overstatement -- it was fucking clunky as hell.

Ohh I definitely agree that PvP itself was clunky. I was only talking about the HP/damage ratio. The fact that the metagame shifted constantly from spike to pressure and everything in between should be evidence that a good medium was reached.

 

[Serious_Business]

It's impossible to have a good MMORPG be popular today. Mark my words. WoW killer? More popular than WoW? Get me the fuck out of there. What serious gamer really keeps an up-to-date PC any more? So he can play CoD 6? God, this game must be bad. Stop 'innovating' and start going backwards. Why are WoW and LoL popular? Anybody's computer can play them, for one. What do serious gamers not give a shit about? The latest in fucking graphics. So they aren't marketing to serious gamers, they aren't marketing to the masses... they're fucking idiots. I'll play an MMORPG with Warcraft II graphics if they get the damn gameplay right. No solo play, not even at the early levels (read the fucking manual if you want a tutorial, anybody who hasn't played an MMORPG by now isn't the target), exp. loss on death, CRs, the screen goes fucking pitch black at night unless you have a light (and lights extinguish themselves over time, unless they're magical, which is rare as shit), gaining a level takes a few hours even at level 1, no instancing, intelligent AI, devs. who defy spoiler sites and randomize puzzles and spawns, sometimes without patch notes, NO RESPAWNING OUTDOOR MOBS (if you kill the wildlife, which should never be easy, it doesn't magically come back).... but all this'll never happen, good MMORPGs can't be popular today. The best you can get, and it's still not really that good, is Project 1999 with 400 people on the server. And Everquest was too damn easy in the first place. You should never be able to stand around in a dangerous dungeon and kill static spawns over and over. Dungeon groups should be invasions, plain and simple, constantly moving, thinking, on your toes. If you fail, your reputation on the server takes a huge hit, and you're last in line for joining groups in a handful of dungeons with long respawn rates. Full PvP of course is allowed, with player accountability. After killing so many players, you can't enter cities, guards start chasing you down like in a Daggerfall, posses are formed to hunt you down, etc. Reputation is everything. Realism prevails. Survival of the fittest.

Tell me more, I sense you have a strong opinion on dis and I will listen, go right ahead

 

[Black]

Oh look, the one who left.

 

[Ulminati]

How the fuck does one get one-shot in the starter zone? The mind boggles.

That's quite easy. He's whining about a giant zerg train. That's the "boss event" in the tutorial zone for level 1 characters you have to complete to enter the starting zone. For the first few days the tutorial areas were overflowing with new people, hence the event turns into a zerg. They all have a large AoE instakill attack you have to dodge out of if you're standing in the red circle. And most new players are too dumb to do that. That'll down them.

Well GW1 and GW2 both suffer from the MMORPG cancer that are insane HP to damage ratios. And while GW1 was certainly a worse game because of it, GW2 suffers exceptionally from this, since all the nifty movement and stuff they put into the game becomes meaningless, when you have to unload your standard combo a whopping 10 times to kill a mob at your level... everything becomes so utterly pointless.

I dunno. I'm running greatsword guardian with a dps/burn trait setup. I'm killing mobs at my level +3 with 1-3 cycles of my skills depending on crits and whether or not time my VoJ pop correctly. Mobs of my level in PvE melt in seconds.

health pools in GW2 are fine. it allows for dot dmg builds (condition) being viable.

I do agree some event bosses might have a little too much though.

The problem seems to be how the event calculates the # of players in the area. Since event bosses/numbers scale to the # of people doing the event. (And before the local retard train come in going "lolololololo level scaling!" it mainly means events stay interesting whether you're 3 people or 30 doing them). Sometimes you'll be 10 people doing an event, but because of others in the vicinity the thing scales as if you wre 20. That said, I really, REALLY hate the giant event at meatoberfest. I get that it's a "world boss" type event, but it takes bloody ages to kill no matter your zerg size because NPCs cannot into dodge.

 

[Average Manatee]

How the fuck does one get one-shot in the starter zone? The mind boggles.

That's quite easy. He's whining about a giant zerg train. That's the "boss event" in the tutorial zone for level 1 characters you have to complete to enter the starting zone. For the first few days the tutorial areas were overflowing with new people, hence the event turns into a zerg. They all have a large AoE instakill attack you have to dodge out of if you're standing in the red circle. And most new players are too dumb to do that. That'll down them.

Nope. It was simply my lvl 5 ele running out of quests to do and being forced to take on lvl 8-10 mobs. Dodge them constantly and manage to kill one after several minutes of fighting. While fighting 2nd, first one respawns behind me. Instant death, fail game. Wouldn't be a problem if they gave you enough XP to fucking level in this game, but they don't.

 

[Ulminati]

I levelled an elementalist to 30 solo in PvE no problem. I'd give you some pointers but at this point I'm convinced you're simply too dumb to play guild wars 2, even at the very low level the game sets the bar at.

In other news -- Any seafarers rest people up for grouping up for some sPVP? I'm rolling around with a staff/scepter shout-based support guardian

 

[SuicideBunny]

Nope. It was simply my lvl 5 ele running out of quests to do and being forced to take on lvl 8-10 mobs. Dodge them constantly and manage to kill one after several minutes of fighting. While fighting 2nd, first one respawns behind me. Instant death, fail game. Wouldn't be a problem if they gave you enough XP to fucking level in this game, but they don't.

....you have to be actively inept to run out of quests before you did them all. even if you somehow managed to actively go out of the way of every single event (which you pretty much must have done), there are still as many starter zones with quests as there are races and moving between them takes 2 minutes the first time you go to one and is instant afterwards. not to mention that early on you can easily level just from gathering materials or exploring the cities, or that there are no level restrictions on quests and you can just keep exploring and do the non-violent components of high level quests.

 

[Mangoose]

ur just stupi d

r00fles

 

[Ulminati]

Yep. Face it Average Manatee. you're simply too dumb to play guild wars. The game is protecting lot of poor innocent people from getting dragged down by your monstrous ineptitude by discouraging you before you enter pvp.

 

[Mangoose]

Dude you are fucking blind bad. You say it takes a long time to get more than 4-6 skill slots. After I specifically mention that you get THIRTEEN skills to play with by level 10. That's about one night of playing.

And man, you should have all your weapon skills easily unlocked way before level 5.

 

[Angthoron]

Not to mention that it doesn't matter - if you stick to your preferred weapons for a long time, after L10 and further, unlocking skills becomes trivial - I unlocked all shortbow skills on my thief in one kill.

 

[Mangoose]

Really? Fuu.