The Denuvo DRM Thread

[racofer]

 

[an Administrator]

And how is that the fault of piracy rather than of too low pricing?

Yeah because you can only find pirated copies on stores. (Expect for some specific softwares like Nod32). It is not only piracy fault (without piracy we even couldn't have a Windows!). I think the main reason is that we are not connected to international credit networks.

 

[vonAchdorf]

And how is that the fault of piracy rather than of too low pricing?

Yeah because you can only find pirated copies on stores. (Expect for some specific softwares like Nod32). It is not only piracy fault (without piracy we even couldn't have a Windows!). I think the main reason is that we are not connected to international credit networks.

Won't that be restored now? Or was that some unilateral arm-twisting by the U.S. with Swift and the banks, and not part of the agreement.

 

[an Administrator]

And how is that the fault of piracy rather than of too low pricing?

Yeah because you can only find pirated copies on stores. (Expect for some specific softwares like Nod32). It is not only piracy fault (without piracy we even couldn't have a Windows!). I think the main reason is that we are not connected to international credit networks.

Won't that be restored now? Or was that some unilateral arm-twisting by the U.S. with Swift and the banks, and not part of the agreement.

Because no one cared about this here. Everyone is happy with this situations because this logic : "Why connect to network and pay money to foreigners when we can use pirated games and softwares? ".
And copyright laws here only protects iranian softwares

 

[Charles-cgr]

Also, Charles-cgr even went as far as going on the pirate bay and posting that he is an indie developer and to please stop pirating his games. I know because I tried pirating his game a few years ago. Never ended up doing it. So I bought it instead.

I never wrote on Pirate Bay, a customer did. He told me after the fact and I let it go.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Ah, right. I forgot about Eastern Europe and selling pirated copies on the street or even in stores.

In EE there is no stores with pirated games for maybe 10 years.They were never that big anyway,most of the shit was done in internet cafes,you go with your cd say what game you want and they make it for around 10$.But since better internet became available cheap they all bankrupted as the next thing was local severs with games/films/music provided by the ISP themselves lol ,then torrents happen.

 

[Immortal]

And copyright laws here only protects iranian softwares

Stone Your Wife RPG

Piracy is completely fine. It doesn't hurt devs at all.

A pal of mine has never bought a single game in his life, he's a prolific pirate who pirates everything, and if a game can't be pirated he'll just skip it. But because he plays so many games he tends to give recommendations to his friends, who sometimes buy a game based on his recommendation.

Therefore, his piracy actually adds to the company's profit, rather than detract from it.

JarlFrank I normally agree with you.. but this is the dumbest rationalization of piracy I have ever read and I am a serial pirate.

Stop trying to invent circumstantial evidence to justify being a bottom feeder who is stealing games. Just accept it and own it. This attempt to justify that somehow you stealing games earns more money for the company. Top Lulz..

Like what the fuck did I just read..

 

[vonAchdorf]

The revolution would make an interesting setting for an RPG.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Food. I can't say much about food because I am of the opinion that everybody should have food on their tables and it should be a human right. Naive dreams and illusions. What I'm trying to get to is that if someone is hungry and needs food, they should be given food. Let them steal, or provide food banks, food stamps and soup kitchens for those that require it the most. Although, that can easily turn into an abusive relationship where the needy goes where food is provided every day, but no attempts are made at any progress in their own lives (I'm speaking of homeless, I was homeless in Boulder, Colorado for just 2 months during a summer. I understand a lot of people live like that all the time). We went and ate the food, then went our way.

LIES LIESNo programs to help anyone get out of the bad circle, no one to help with a job, or to get contacts, or to get education or anything. No therapy or aid. Just foodLIES LIES*. I was grateful, of course, but I always knew I was going to back to Sweden, none of the others were. I also hope you understand that "nutrition" is a variable meant to represent "food in your stomach" or "food on your table". Not just "survival" and "essentials" but getting fed every day. Some of my past friends stole food, even though they had a job (not a well paying one) and an apartment. They didn't quite steal because they were starving, but just to be stocked enough.

Essentials are much more than "getting fed every day". Types of food, one's individual parameters are very important.
Some people can normally function on junk food, some need higher quality food to avoid getting ill. Some people are tall, some people are low. Height can provide a large variance in caloric needs.
Then you have shit like this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201302/eat-your-egg-yolks
Lack of specific nutrients can actually cause serious diseases like Schizophrenia.
Additionally for example yolks are known to cure anxiety due to the choline and inozytol content. Was suffering from extreme anxiety and panic and rage attacks recently. Increased amount of yolks per day to 10 and it stopped happening.

I do believe that piracy is a kind of theft. I understand the by possession, we are talking about the right and authority to use something. Theft therefore is not to be understood as the privation of something from his rightful owner, but rather as the infringement of the owner's authority without his knowledge. Thus, it is still a theft to take something without permission even if it is replaced before the owner could notice, although this would be far less bad than simply stealing.

Still, as long as pirating goes against the rightful authority of whatever company to control the copies of their games, I do believe it to be theft. I do think that the authority these big companies hold over games might be exaggerated, however. In particular, I believe the current laws for public domain take too long to go into effect. But this isn't enough grounds to deny their rights to their own products.

That's why it's called copyright violation.

It's hard to imagine people with careers writing a lot of these posts. Personally, time is limited.

That's pretty much what happened to me when I was working/discovered shoutbox.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

And how is that the fault of piracy rather than of too low pricing?

Yeah because you can only find pirated copies on stores. (Expect for some specific softwares like Nod32). It is not only piracy fault (without piracy we even couldn't have a Windows!). I think the main reason is that we are not connected to international credit networks.

Won't that be restored now? Or was that some unilateral arm-twisting by the U.S. with Swift and the banks, and not part of the agreement.

Because no one cared about this here. Everyone is happy with this situations because this logic : "Why connect to network and pay money to foreigners when we can use pirated games and softwares? ".
And copyright laws here only protects iranian softwares

Nice way of stopping money from leaking to the privileged west.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Ah, right. I forgot about Eastern Europe and selling pirated copies on the street or even in stores.

In EE there is no stores with pirated games for maybe 10 years.They were never that big anyway,most of the shit was done in internet cafes,you go with your cd say what game you want and they make it for around 10$.But since better internet became available cheap they all bankrupted as the next thing was local severs with games/films/music provided by the ISP themselves lol ,then torrents happen.

Nah, they still exist, at least in Russia/Ukraine.
The one not so far from my office is pretty crowded, actually. Indeed, there are dumbfucks willing to pay $$$ for (obviously) pirated games instead of torrenting them.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Nah, they still exist, at least in Russia/Ukraine.
The one not so far from my office is pretty crowded, actually. Indeed, there are dumbfucks willing to pay $$$ for (obviously) pirated games instead of torrenting them.

That's more like CIS region,how is price of internet there?They are bigass countries and I can easily see why pirate stores would still make sense.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Nah, they still exist, at least in Russia/Ukraine.
The one not so far from my office is pretty crowded, actually. Indeed, there are dumbfucks willing to pay $$$ for (obviously) pirated games instead of torrenting them.

That's more like CIS region,how is price of internet there?They are bigass countries and I can easily see why pirate stores still would making sense.

Last time I checked, most good ISPs in Ukraine offered a suitable connection for 100 uah/month (average person earns from 3k or 4k uah per month). Installation is pretty expensive with some ISPs (up to ~1.3k uah if you want to use the optic fiber cable, which wasn't so common in 2013), but most ISPs do it for a lot less (I might be wrong, but I think the price was around 100-200 uah, and some ISPs usually connect you for free if there are other users living nearby). As for games, usually the prices range from 40 to 60 uah per game. Some older games can be picked up for 15 uah. Sometimes new/popular/console releases can cost up to 80-100 uah.

Also...

Spoiler

Dorra is expensive as fuck lately, so I was surprised to find out that GTA V costs 1.2k uah (and most new releases take up to 600-700) when I checked one of the legitimate local stores in summer. Witcher 2 was like 300 uah on day 1. WTF.
At least 1+ years old games were a lot cheaper (South Park (uplay) was about 150 uah (~620 on Steam), Dungeon Siege III (DVD + Steam key) = ~50 uah (~235 on Steam)).

 

[Destroid]

Paying for a pirate copy of something (beyond the price of the media) is indefensible.

 

[an Administrator]

Nice way of stopping money from leaking to the privileged west.

And they wonder why west puts electronic sanctions on us

 

[J_C]

Ah, right. I forgot about Eastern Europe and selling pirated copies on the street or even in stores.

In EE there is no stores with pirated games for maybe 10 years.They were never that big anyway,most of the shit was done in internet cafes,you go with your cd say what game you want and they make it for around 10$.But since better internet became available cheap they all bankrupted as the next thing was local severs with games/films/music provided by the ISP themselves lol ,then torrents happen.

This makes me remember a funny story about this. There have never been a legit videogame store in my city, so I couldn't buy games even if I wanted to. But one time one of my friends told me that there is a store where you can buy games. I wanted to buy Baldur's Gate. So I went to the place and told them "hey, i heared you got Baldur's Gate, I'd like to buy it". And they were like "sure, we can burn it on a few CDs for tomorrow".

My stance on piracy is that if you are a kid or a teenager with no income whatsoever, than pirate those games. It's not a good thing, but I don't think you will kill these developers.

But when you grow up and you will have your own income (or you are a rich fuck who gets a lot of money from his parents), get some decency and buy the games. There are so many cheap and good games around that for a few dollars you can get months worth of entertainment. You can even buy a full priced game once in a while. The developers worked hard on that game, and you are having your enjoyment based on their hard work. And really, if you need so many games that you can't afford to buy them all, buddy, you should really start to think about your social life.

And cut that bullshit about your are just demoing the game with the pirated copies, and you will buy the game if you like it. I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates won't buy those games. Maybe if it is a classic, one which offers hundreds of hours of entertainment and a good multiplayer, then they will buy it. But do you want us to believe that if you are having fun with a single playe game for 7-8 hours, you will buy it after you finished. The hell you will. You finish it, you will forget about it and you will move on to the next one. And don't try to justify it by saying that it wasn't probably that good if you don't want to buy it. Yeah? But it was good enough to play it from start to finish?

 

[Osvir]

I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates won't buy those games.

I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates wouldn't buy games even if they couldn't get them for free.

The source for my stats are the same as yours.

Yes! I've always wanted to be in the 1%!

Then again, I'm probably not (aw damn), because I'm sure a lot more than 1% convert into supporting consumers when it becomes financially viable for them to do so.

 

[J_C]

I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates won't buy those games.

I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates wouldn't buy games even if they couldn't get them for free.

The source for my stats are the same as yours.

Yes! I've always wanted to be in the 1%!

Then again, I'm probably not (aw damn), because I'm sure a lot more than 1% convert into supporting consumers when it becomes financially viable for them to do so.

But that's what I'm saying. If you can't afford to buy games at all, than pirate some games. But if you have the finances, then you are just a dick for not paying anything for them.

I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates won't buy those games.

I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates wouldn't buy games even if they couldn't get them for free.

The source for my stats are the same as yours.

And I say that if suddenly nobody could pirate games, grown up pirates with money would start to buy some games. Not all, but some. You can take this as a fact. Because if you like your hobbies, you are willing to pay for it.

 

[spectre]

And cut that bullshit about your are just demoing the game with the pirated copies, and you will buy the game if you like it. I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates won't buy those games.

Seems like I'm the 1% here, so let's trade anecdotal evidence and analogies, shall we?
I actually have this rule and have been acting on it ever since I got stable income - at first I always pirate the thing, whenever i get the urge to play it again, I always shell out the cash.

Maybe if it is a classic, one which offers hundreds of hours of entertainment and a good multiplayer, then they will buy it.

Not sure what the problem is here. I'm not just okay with actually supporting good products with my money, I believe it's the way to go (and it just might be beneficial to the industry, oh the audacity).

I think the best kinds of analogies to be made for gaming are to the rest of the entertainment industry.
If I go out to see the show, and the show turns out to be shit, I will ask for a refund.
If the show is great, I will pay, and most likely come back for more.

Also, let me give you another anecdote here.
Back in the day Baldurs Gate was released, even the die-hard pirates would buy it. Why? Because of all the stuff that came with it.
I firmly believe that if you want to sway the pirates into giving you their money, you need to give them a sense of added value.
Sulk all you want, piracy an issue you need to address one way or another if you're going to go into game development.
Some devs were able to spin it and help their marketing in a creative way (I am referring to that game development sim game that won overnight fame)

If you can't work with it, I am sure there's plenty of other careers for you.

This is entertainment industry, you're not entitled to my money simply because you lured me in with a pretty banner. You actually need to deliver. There's no reward for participation in this game.

But do you want us to believe that if you are having fun with a single playe game for 7-8 hours, you will buy it after you finished. The hell you will. You finish it, you will forget about it and you will move on to the next one. And don't try to justify it by saying that it wasn't probably that good if you don't want to buy it. Yeah? But it was good enough to play it from start to finish?

You see, this line of thinking is exactly why we cannot have nice things anymore. A 7-8 hour game that offers absolutely nothing else is a big fuck you to the gamer.
Especially if sold at full price, and doubly so if the length of the game is not explicitly made known.

Let's summon a culinary analogy this time.
Sure, it's not really okay to ask for a refund once you've eaten the entire course, but with a 7-8 hour game it would be the equivalent of ordering a full meal and only getting a salad.
Sadly, with video games it's usually not possible to know that you're done with the game until you're actually done with it, so this analogy will have to end here.


Still, it's all gobbledygook. The whole issue is much more complex. Games are not created equal and developer studios are not created equal.
The fact I like about being able to pirate is that it allows the consumer to stay in charge in an era when the devs are getting way too cheeky about bleeding the player dry without really delivering a quality product on their own end.
It is a very useful safety mechanism for a commodity that is so subjective when it comes to pricing.

Technically, I should know that pirating is bad (mmkay), and I should feel ashamed for it, being a grown up with an income and a family, etc. etc.;
But then I go out and buy me a Company of Heroes 2 (I liked #1, sue me) and it makes me want to never buy another vidya game ever again.

Re-reading my blurb, I noticed I kind of noticed that the key to this whole thing is respect. A customer will find both money and rationalization for a brand he respects.
If they feel like they're treated like shit, I think they're in their right to keep the money in their pocket.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I honestly think that avoiding piracy is a backwards business strategy.
Games are supposed to be sold out of its content, not for the privilege to be able to play it. e.g:


I also did something similar with the original Binding of Isaac - i downloaded it on piratebay just to turn it off and buy the original a week later.

It comes with the mindset that people will do anything to play your game, so if you make it impossible to pirate they will buy it no matter what. I believe there'll be a point where people who aren't die-hard fans already will look at the amount of verification they need to jump through and just not bother, playing something else instead. I noticed there are some games that require an Origin account check, a Steam account check AND a separate online check, so the moment of saturation is probably not far away. I mean, yeah maybe I do want to play Assassin of Duty II, but do I want it enough to go through a retina scan everytime I load my save like in AoD?

Wouldn't it be in line with the hacking/cracking ethos to bypass a security measure and then publicly announce that you don't think you can bypass that security measure so that the OPFOR will continue to use that security measure?

I mean this is basic shit, Sun Tzu and all that mess.

Makes sense from a practical point of view, but when you're doing something for the challenge/recognition it feels a bit lame to lie in order to have an easier job next time.

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

Copy protections are made to maximize the profits in the first two weeks, to hopefully a whole month. AAA games are being purchased mostly by Day 1 Morgoths so it's natural that the biggest players on the game market want to make it harder for the crackers to make a pirated version.



Ubisoft protection that came with Assassins Creed 2 was interesting, when you looked how every component worked with each other. And no one could crack it for the whole month. Exactly as was intended. I think they will try to make another big step when it comes to the always online SP games. They've got a lot of money to burn.

Chaos Theory still holds the world record though. I stopped pirating most of the stuff due to the better pricing and promotions, but I still don't want to infect my OS with Starforce. Not after reading so many threads about the driver that was needed for the proper work of the protection and what it did with optic drivers in some cases. I know I would be the "lucky" guy in this lottery.


Not to mention that keeping DVD in for checking seems idiotic. You install software to NOT use your optic drivers. My GTA 3 disc looks now like a rink after a hockey match thanks to that. Securom has that annoying feature that you must always have the disc in the drive to play the game. Later on they've put online activation on top of it to compete with the other protection systems. Bioshock was probably the first one who had that combo option. There wasn't cracked .exe for 2 weeks. What was surprising, that the crack came out of nowhere, and no crack group admitted to making the workaround.


Denovo is still a young system compared to the others, which had many revisions and they are better known to people. 3DM is usually a hit & miss group. Their releases usually aren't compatible with others, and on sometimes don't simply work. With the constant patching, the size of the games, and the number of the sales and promos I would still buy the game, if it was really worth it.

 

[Celerity]

And cut that bullshit about your are just demoing the game with the pirated copies, and you will buy the game if you like it. I can guarantee you, that 99% of the pirates won't buy those games. Maybe if it is a classic, one which offers hundreds of hours of entertainment and a good multiplayer, then they will buy it. But do you want us to believe that if you are having fun with a single playe game for 7-8 hours, you will buy it after you finished. The hell you will. You finish it, you will forget about it and you will move on to the next one. And don't try to justify it by saying that it wasn't probably that good if you don't want to buy it. Yeah? But it was good enough to play it from start to finish?

If an RPG lasts 7-8 hours only it's a shit game. Otherwise I will be nowhere near done, and will buy it after it gets through the bullshit ascreen.

 

[Owl]

"I really wanted to pirate this new AAA game, but it's not available anywhere on the torrentz, because it has some newfangled drm that the release groups can't crack. I guess I'll just buy it for $60 on Steam." - said no one, ever.

 

[Celerity]

Who the fuck buys triple A games when they first come out anyways? They're the fastest devaluing things on the planet, wait 6 months and it will be 10-30 dollars and might actually be reasonably bug free and stable and might actually be complete (barring cut content as DLC bullshit).

 

[Daedalos]

What about triple A games that are actually worth 60 $ on release day?