The Denuvo DRM Thread

[JarlFrank]

And copyright laws here only protects iranian softwares

Stone Your Wife RPG

Piracy is completely fine. It doesn't hurt devs at all.

A pal of mine has never bought a single game in his life, he's a prolific pirate who pirates everything, and if a game can't be pirated he'll just skip it. But because he plays so many games he tends to give recommendations to his friends, who sometimes buy a game based on his recommendation.

Therefore, his piracy actually adds to the company's profit, rather than detract from it.

JarlFrank I normally agree with you.. but this is the dumbest rationalization of piracy I have ever read and I am a serial pirate.

Stop trying to invent circumstantial evidence to justify being a bottom feeder who is stealing games. Just accept it and own it. This attempt to justify that somehow you stealing games earns more money for the company. Top Lulz..

Like what the fuck did I just read..

Not trying to justify it, I'm fine with being an immoral pirate who gets things for free like some filthy thief, but at least with books it has been tested that letting the pirates to their thing rather than actively pushing for anti-piracy measures is actually better for the work. Neil Gaiman tried that with Russians, read about it here: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-to-believing-its-incredibly-good-thing.shtml

And honestly, as a guy who writes stories himself and even earns some money from it, I don't care about piracy. I'm frequenting a German writer forum where there's a thread where people post any links to pirated materials from other forum members so they can demand it to be taken down, and everyone acts so offended about being pirated on there, it's pretty funny. I get being offended and enraged when someone sells your book as a much cheaper ebook version on his shady site compared to your official ebook, cause he's making money by stealing from you, but just someone uploading your shit on a pirate site that people can download for free?

Shit dude, that's actually fucking amazing. You know you've reached a certain amount of popularity once someone actually bothers to upload your shit on a pirate site, or make a torrent of it. Working on a (maybe or maybe not vapourware) indie game project right now as writer and level designer, and you know what? I'd actually be happy if, once the game is released, I can spot it on piratebay one day, because that's a sign the game is good. If people bother pirating your stuff, you know you have something of quality.

 

[Daedalos]

I would say the reverse would be true.

If you make something of quality, you WILL make a lot of money from it, simply because people think you're a fucking genius, and you deserve their money for indulging them.

People pirate shit just to pirate. Oh, some new movie out? Yeah, who gives a shit, Imma pirate it, and just keep it on the backlog for 9 years, maybe see it one day, not sure. It's not really an indicator of anything

 

[Celerity]

What about triple A games that are actually worth 60 $ on release day?

If such a mythical thing existed that'd be different. I've spent twice as much on single games before (stuff like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6 was 120 on release day in modern money). But there's a reason the price drops so rapidly, and it's because those same quality standards no longer exist. Triple A is an informed trait, and indie is only a thing at all because people are looking for alternatives.

 

[pippin]

I would say the reverse would be true.

If you make something of quality, you WILL make a lot of money from it, simply because people think you're a fucking genius, and you deserve their money for indulging them.

People pirate shit just to pirate. Oh, some new movie out? Yeah, who gives a shit, Imma pirate it, and just keep it on the backlog for 9 years, maybe see it one day, not sure. It's not really an indicator of anything

This is how shills are made actually. Only fanboys blindly believe in some product's quality, or the "magic" going on behind the scenes. It's way too romantic, and everyone who is a little bit older or more familiar with the industry would just prefer an official product for how convenient it is, and also because crappy copies are often faulty, especially with physical formats.
I bought PoE instead of pirating it though, but that's because I'm tired of pirating games.
The bit about the movies is true, but as I said the piracy in that medium is being partially solved by Netflix and more bombastic shit in cinemas, like 3d or IMAX. Normies love Imax and it's kinda scary to me, movies don't matter because of themselves anymore.

 

[typical user]

Who the fuck buys triple A games when they first come out anyways? They're the fastest devaluing things on the planet, wait 6 months and it will be 10-30 dollars and might actually be reasonably bug free and stable and might actually be complete (barring cut content as DLC bullshit).

GTA V is execption. This game holds 60$ on Steam because those jews pack it with in-game microtransactions and released it 3 fucking times. I'm not saying this game isn't worth 60$ but how they try to monetize on it even when it sold 30 milion copies on lastgen consoles is bullshit.

 

[Celerity]

That game still dramatically dropped in price though, you can get it for half that.

 

[pippin]

It has been discounted a number of times, 50% off during the last big sale, even. As I've said before, it's a bit unfair to compare any kind of game to GTA, because GTA is above everything else in commercial terms, even beyond the AAA tier games in my opinion.

 

[JarlFrank]

I would say the reverse would be true.

If you make something of quality, you WILL make a lot of money from it, simply because people think you're a fucking genius, and you deserve their money for indulging them.

People pirate shit just to pirate. Oh, some new movie out? Yeah, who gives a shit, Imma pirate it, and just keep it on the backlog for 9 years, maybe see it one day, not sure. It's not really an indicator of anything

That's true, as well. If you make something of quality, you will get sales no matter if there's piracy or not.

But only stuff gets pirated that surpasses a certain threshold of recognition.

 

[spectre]

The biggest problem is the old download = lost sale fallacy. I think it needs to be debunked more.
I can totally see devs pulling hair seeing the torrent stats and doing basic math, but it doesn't work like this.

 

[hello friend]

Netflix is such a hassle to use. Useless categories, painfully limited search filter options, lacklustre selection outside US, the list goes on. Can't beat the buccaneers without making more than a token effort to be more convenient instead of less. If your business plan is that customers will choiose an inferior product out of the goodness of their hearts you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Immortal]

Not trying to justify it, I'm fine with being an immoral pirate who gets things for free like some filthy thief

Oh okay.. good, here have a brofi- oh wait there's more?

but at least with books it has been tested that letting the pirates to their thing rather than actively pushing for anti-piracy measures is actually better for the work. Neil Gaiman tried that with Russians, read about it here: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-to-believing-its-incredibly-good-thing.shtml

And honestly, as a guy who writes stories himself and even earns some money from it, I don't care about piracy. I'm frequenting a German writer forum where there's a thread where people post any links to pirated materials from other forum members so they can demand it to be taken down, and everyone acts so offended about being pirated on there, it's pretty funny. I get being offended and enraged when someone sells your book as a much cheaper ebook version on his shady site compared to your official ebook, cause he's making money by stealing from you, but just someone uploading your shit on a pirate site that people can download for free?

Shit dude, that's actually fucking amazing. You know you've reached a certain amount of popularity once someone actually bothers to upload your shit on a pirate site, or make a torrent of it. Working on a (maybe or maybe not vapourware) indie game project right now as writer and level designer, and you know what? I'd actually be happy if, once the game is released, I can spot it on piratebay one day, because that's a sign the game is good. If people bother pirating your stuff, you know you have something of quality.

Again?!

The only thing that hurts games sales more than piracy is bullshit DRM.. So I agree with that article.. But this still sounds like wishy washy rationalization.

To say that piracy on it's own improves game / book / movie sales... common that's bullshit
By that logic.. the more that people pirate, the better a game will sell. That means if everyone pirates the game, sales will be through the roof!!!!

Once again Top Lawl. Just accept your a filthy bastard who wants free shit.

 

[Celerity]

It's true on some level. Exposure = sales, and piracy is exposure. About the only time it isn't is if that exposure is negative (the game is shit).

This occasionally backfires (Titan Quest had some DRM that dramatically dropped the frame rate, people assumed the actual game ran like shit and that entire company went out of business because of negative publicity from piracy demos).

Piracy as promotion is more common with software than games though. A lot of common programs like Adobe [Anything] built their userbase off pirates who later became paying customers.

 

[Immortal]

It's true on some level. Exposure = sales, and piracy is exposure. About the only time it isn't is if that exposure is negative (the game is shit).

This occasionally backfires (Titan Quest had some DRM that dramatically dropped the frame rate, people assumed the actual game ran like shit and that entire company went out of business because of negative publicity from piracy demos).

Piracy as promotion is more common with software than games though. A lot of common programs like Adobe [Anything] built their userbase off pirates who later became paying customers.

Replace piracy with 70% steam sale in your quote and you get the same effect minus the stinky neckbeard swede playing your game for free while arguing that "it's just copying - not theft" on the TBP forum.

This is weak ass rational.

Also - even if you were right.. which is a piracy pipe dream at best.. As more and more people pirate, this logic becomes less and less relevant.
The way you guys are talking it's like developers should be grateful that so many people are pirating.. It's the ultimate compliment that they steal your game for free instead of buying it.

Again.. I'm a complete pirate.. I hate DRM, I hate monopolistic corporations like Microsoft, Adobe, 3DS and how they sell their software at completely unreasonable prices. Fuck that shit I ain't buying it.
But I don't hold illusions that my pirating is a compliment to the creators and that me telling my friends how great it is means they will generate sales.. they will probably pirate it too.

Piracy as Promotion - fuck off lol.

 

[FeelTheRads]

By that logic.. the more that people pirate, the better a game will sell.

No, that's not the logic. The logic is that there will always be paying customers.

Piracy as Promotion - fuck off lol.

No, piracy as something that can also generate sales not only reduce them.

But I'm sure you have clear definitive data on how all piracy does is lose sales seeing how sure you're of yourself and you're not just talking out of your ass.

 

[Immortal]

No, that's not the logic. The logic is that there will always be paying customers.

So piracy is good for companies because there will always be people who don't pirate.. Did I fall into fucking crazy land?

 

[Utgard-Loki]

enjoy trying to get assassins creed 2 to work in 10 or 15 years.

but it's okay, you didn't own the game anyway, only a license.

take that corporate dick out of your mouths you fags.

 

[FeelTheRads]

No, that's not the logic. The logic is that there will always be paying customers.

So piracy is good for companies because there will always be people who don't pirate.. Did I fall into fucking crazy land?

You did, but straight from retardo land looks like.

 

[Celerity]

It's true on some level. Exposure = sales, and piracy is exposure. About the only time it isn't is if that exposure is negative (the game is shit).

This occasionally backfires (Titan Quest had some DRM that dramatically dropped the frame rate, people assumed the actual game ran like shit and that entire company went out of business because of negative publicity from piracy demos).

Piracy as promotion is more common with software than games though. A lot of common programs like Adobe [Anything] built their userbase off pirates who later became paying customers.

Replace piracy with 70% steam sale in your quote and you get the same effect minus the stinky neckbeard swede playing your game for free while arguing that "it's just copying - not theft" on the TBP forum.

This is weak ass rational.

Also - even if you were right.. which is a piracy pipe dream at best.. As more and more people pirate, this logic becomes less and less relevant.
The way you guys are talking it's like developers should be grateful that so many people are pirating.. It's the ultimate compliment that they steal your game for free instead of buying it.

Again.. I'm a complete pirate.. I hate DRM, I hate monopolistic corporations like Microsoft, Adobe, 3DS and how they sell their software at completely unreasonable prices. Fuck that shit I ain't buying it.
But I don't hold illusions that my pirating is a compliment to the creators and that me telling my friends how great it is means they will generate sales.. they will probably pirate it too.

Piracy as Promotion - fuck off lol.

I never said it was the only means of promotion or even the best one. Large legitimate discounts, streamers, media coverage... There's also some obscure games that wouldn't get noticed much at all if not for this. Yes, there are some game devs in the position where they need people stealing their work before they can sell more of it.

I'm just loling at all the white knighting/pirates are poor LOL and debunking it.

 

[Martius]

enjoy trying to get assassins creed 2 to work in 10 or 15 years.

I dont think I will hate myself so much after 15 years.

 

[Utgard-Loki]

then make it "game you like here". assassins creed was just an example because of its retarded drm

you autistic fuck.

 

[Martius]

you autistic fuck.

Nice to meet you too!
Well, I completely agree with that problem. That wouldn't be that bad if most games would offer drm free alternative but I doubt it will happen soon or even ever. At least consoles still offer that option until glorious digital future will standard. It can be even worse, how would you like to enjoy games only available through streaming?

 

[Quigs]

Netflix is such a hassle to use. Useless categories, painfully limited search filter options, lacklustre selection outside US, the list goes on. Can't beat the buccaneers without making more than a token effort to be more convenient instead of less. If your business plan is that customers will choiose an inferior product out of the goodness of their hearts you're gonna have a bad time.

Entertainment throughout the year for the cost of a lunch a month. Works just fine for me chumbo.

 

[Immortal]

You did, but straight from retardo land looks like.

You sound like a..Salty Pirate. ???

I'm just loling at all the white knighting/pirates are poor LOL and debunking it.

Like companies should all be thankful that you torrent shit, this is atheist levels of egomania.

 

[JarlFrank]

It's true on some level. Exposure = sales, and piracy is exposure. About the only time it isn't is if that exposure is negative (the game is shit).

This occasionally backfires (Titan Quest had some DRM that dramatically dropped the frame rate, people assumed the actual game ran like shit and that entire company went out of business because of negative publicity from piracy demos).

Piracy as promotion is more common with software than games though. A lot of common programs like Adobe [Anything] built their userbase off pirates who later became paying customers.

Replace piracy with 70% steam sale in your quote and you get the same effect minus the stinky neckbeard swede playing your game for free while arguing that "it's just copying - not theft" on the TBP forum.

This is weak ass rational.

Also - even if you were right.. which is a piracy pipe dream at best.. As more and more people pirate, this logic becomes less and less relevant.
The way you guys are talking it's like developers should be grateful that so many people are pirating.. It's the ultimate compliment that they steal your game for free instead of buying it.

Again.. I'm a complete pirate.. I hate DRM, I hate monopolistic corporations like Microsoft, Adobe, 3DS and how they sell their software at completely unreasonable prices. Fuck that shit I ain't buying it.
But I don't hold illusions that my pirating is a compliment to the creators and that me telling my friends how great it is means they will generate sales.. they will probably pirate it too.

Piracy as Promotion - fuck off lol.

No, you're missing the point here. The point is that DRM is at best of use for a limited amount of time, and at worst counter-productive, while piracy doesn't hurt the companies as much as they think it does (because if it did, everyone would be out of business already: the games that don't receive a day one crack, or at the VERY least a crack in the first month, can be counted on one hand, and every time it takes crackers significantly longer than a month to crack a game, it becomes big news because it is such a seldom thing).

Going on TPB and commenting on a torrent something like "hey guys it's the dev here, I'm just a small dev and need the money, if you like the game please buy, no hate towards you guys tho" is a lot more effective than DRM, because it actually does make some people pay for the game, while DRM makes some potential customers into pirates. While I usually pirate (I probably pirate 90% of my games and buy 10%), there have been occasions when I was interested enough in a game to consider a day 1 purchase. There have been occasions when I actually did purchase a game on day one. But there have also been occasions where I didn't after reading what bullshit kind of DRM the game has, so the piratebay version gives me someting that is less of a hassle to install.

Shitty DRM drives customers away. Most games will be cracked in the first week. Hardcore pirates always pirate and don't buy. Some pirates buy if they like the game.

The logical conclusion is: DRM is a useless waste of your money, and piracy is a thing you should just ignore because it doesn't affect you as much as you think it does.

 

[hello friend]

Netflix is such a hassle to use. Useless categories, painfully limited search filter options, lacklustre selection outside US, the list goes on. Can't beat the buccaneers without making more than a token effort to be more convenient instead of less. If your business plan is that customers will choiose an inferior product out of the goodness of their hearts you're gonna have a bad time.

Entertainment throughout the year for the cost of a lunch a month. Works just fine for me chumbo.

Well good for you. I prefer the convenience of a good private tracker, but whatever floats your boat.