From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Twinkle]

This is why I still like the 'Dex. Even mundane and boring threads about random shitty games can go places... very interesting places.

Also, mindx2, you should consider joining our little Codex Dating Service Diversity Squad on Steam. I'm sure kony will appreciate your advice on how to manhandle women.

 

[Antagonist]

even in PvE more often than not a +15 weapon (unbuffed) will do more damage than a +5 lightning (or +5 chaos that has even more AR than lightning and many more enemies that are especially weak to fire (and only a few with significant resistances) and can be crafted significantly earlier than lightning).

I never disputed that elemental weapons are not the best choice for min/max players and I'll take your word for it that their utility diminishes rapidly in subsequent difficulty levels since I didn't have the time to try myself yet. But elemental weapons are good enough to easily get you through the game without too much hassle (regarding build choices and therefore damage output), which is why I consider them overpowered (at least on NG).

you should reconsider the PvP thing, it's very very fun when you don't run into cheap gankers or xbawks hax0rs (that's why ps>xbawks :p.

Personally I wouldn't put too much thought into PVP with the first character as one has to get some in-depth knowledge about the current meta-game (including builds, obscure items and armor pieces). There is always the danger that you will start feel pressured to use various online resources to avoid building a sub-optimal character (from a pvp pov) and thus impact your experience negatively. I would say that the second character should be the one were one can start doing concrete plans for PVP-enabled builds as one will have intimate knowledge about the game and its mechanics at this point.

 

[Surf Solar]

you should reconsider the PvP thing, it's very very fun when you don't run into cheap gankers or xbawks hax0rs (that's why ps>xbawks :p. btw, do you have to pay for that crap to play online on the x360? i thought it was more like the psn+ thing where you pay only for some premium shit and stuff...). or at least play on-line for the full experience of cooping with strangers and being invaded by griefers

Those messages other players can leave (plus other small atmospheric stuff like other players bloodstains etc) seem really cool to me, but yeah, to use any multiplayercontent in xboxlive, you must have a gold membership. I believe I have one code laying around somewhere, since I rarely play on the console I could use it for this game, hm

your dex is @24 and you're barely in the undead burg and you grinded "a bit"? liar!

Yeah, what can I say in my defense. :D The game taught me to be prepared for what comes next, and I like to have a small edge over what may appear around the next corner (albeit I ALWAYS run into those damn traps goddammit)

further unspoilery hints and tips: yeah, leave the skellies and their area for much later (at one point much further down the line, if you're thorough enough with your exploring, you'll come across an "occult club". downgrade that shit to +5 divine and only then venture into the graveyard and beyond (although you can do that right now by suicide running for some useful items). HINT: this game has fake walls so if something looks suspicious be sure to whack it. it's also helpful to play online since players usually leave messages near fake walls. HINT2: divine (and blunt) crap is very very useful vs skeletons. especially beyond the graveyard). another unspoilery hint: there's a relatively useful merchant in the general area where you are now (undead burg). far from hidden, but not really obvious. he sells 4 items that you should really buy: orange soapstone (write and rate messages), residence key (buy now so you don't have to backtrack), bottomless box (item management at bonfires), repairbox (repairing at bonfires). regarding the shards, the blacksmith is... not far (there's also one that is very near Firelink but i won't spoil it :p). when you finally find him (you'll hear his pounding when you're near enough), farm 4k more souls (or 6 if you didn't buy the repairbox from the merchant) to buy the armour and weapon smithbox so that you can upgrade stuff at bonfires. and while you're there, if you're not too high level (20-25ish should be ok) before or after the boss you can lay down your sign for some coop action to "farm" some souls and have some fun (it's a griefer hotspot so you'll have plenty of chances to fight twinked invaders with some bros )

Thanks again. And yeah, I found that merchant, but didn't know those items are so useful. Guess that means another grinding session to buy those things. :D Looking forward to that smith, found lots and lots of those shards already. I have found dozens upon dozens of armors, helmets etc of all the samy type on those undead I killed in the burg, are they useful for my rather light-medium armor wanderer? By the look of it I guess not.. The equipment menu is a bit consoly/confusing to make out what item does what exactly..

Some other noob questions: What exactly (other than raising my chance to find loot on enemies) does the humanity meter do? I have also read stuff on "turn undead/human form" or such, but I haven't figured out how to do that (whish I would have ordered the english version, the german translation I have is a bit wonky).

 

[Xi]

Dark souls isn't really a hard game (to anyone who is decent at these types of games), it's simply one of the few that does difficulty WELL.

It says a lot that DkS/DeS both are considered "hard but fair" even though they only have 1 difficulty level, and this is enough to please a wide range of players. Meanwhile other games have a whole range of difficulties from "easy mode awesome button everything" to "rape me please", and yet none of those games have a single difficulty level that plays as naturally as DkS/DeS do.

A lot more developers need to take a "lets make a really good, smart challenge" stance instead of "lets sprinkle enemies around randomly and let the player arbitrarily nerf or buff their health and damage by changing the difficulty until its bearable".

Having a difficulty slider, IMHO, is a sign of poor design. The experience should be designed in one way only, and balanced for the desired experience. All players should go through that same experience. That's why Dark Souls is so awesome. You can relate to other people's experience and share how you solved your own progression dilemmas. It has to be challenging no matter what. If you can turn it to easy mode, the player will soon grow tired of the experience.

 

[praetor]

even in PvE more often than not a +15 weapon (unbuffed) will do more damage than a +5 lightning (or +5 chaos that has even more AR than lightning and many more enemies that are especially weak to fire (and only a few with significant resistances) and can be crafted significantly earlier than lightning).

I never disputed that elemental weapons are not the best choice for min/max players and I'll take your word for it that their utility diminishes rapidly in subsequent difficulty levels since I didn't have the time to try myself yet. But elemental weapons are good enough to easily get you through the game without too much hassle (regarding build choices and therefore damage output), which is why I consider them overpowered (at least on NG).

but whatever build you choose, you'll dish out more damage than elementals (unless you make a completely shitty build or for some obscure reason decided to pump vitality first instead of other things. which i guess was kinda your point?). they're fantastic weapons if you pump only vit & end, or, as i previously said, as backup weapons when you want to have something that deals good damage but you don't have the stats for it (that's why chaos/lightning rapiers and shotels are very very popular backup weapons). seriously, next time when you get to anor londo with, say, a dex character (by that time you should be in your 30ies with the dex) and get yourself a +15 winged spear instead of that lightning one and you'll notice that you'll be dealing on average more damage, more consistently than before . imho, elementals do exactly what they're supposed to do, it's just that it's a bit too easy&early to acquire and upgrade them (it would've been perfectly fine if the chaos & fire embers were placed in lost izalith, and if there was a lightning ember (instead of the useless crystal one) lets say in the crystal caves and if they replaced the lightning spear with, say, a fire spear +5). the only thing that i'd consider very OP in PvE is the eagle shield. stupidly high resistances and stability for retardedly low requirements and is found very early in the game.

you should reconsider the PvP thing, it's very very fun when you don't run into cheap gankers or xbawks hax0rs (that's why ps>xbawks :p.

Personally I wouldn't put too much thought into PVP with the first character as one has to get some in-depth knowledge about the current meta-game (including builds, obscure items and armor pieces). There is always the danger that you will start feel pressured to use various online resources to avoid building a sub-optimal character (from a pvp pov) and thus impact your experience negatively. I would say that the second character should be the one were one can start doing concrete plans for PVP-enabled builds as one will have intimate knowledge about the game and its mechanics at this point.

true. poor choice of words on my part. by "pvp" i really meant the "regular" online component of the game ('cause playing it offline is only half the fun). i didn't really mean that his first build should be focused for competitive PvP play, just that it shouldn't be completely fucked so that he doesn't have too much of a hard time keeping up in coop or when getting invaded

 

[praetor]

Thanks again. And yeah, I found that merchant, but didn't know those items are so useful. Guess that means another grinding session to buy those things. :D Looking forward to that smith, found lots and lots of those shards already. I have found dozens upon dozens of armors, helmets etc of all the samy type on those undead I killed in the burg, are they useful for my rather light-medium armor wanderer? By the look of it I guess not.. The equipment menu is a bit consoly/confusing to make out what item does what exactly..

Some other noob questions: What exactly (other than raising my chance to find loot on enemies) does the humanity meter do? I have also read stuff on "turn undead/human form" or such, but I haven't figured out how to do that (whish I would have ordered the english version, the german translation I have is a bit wonky).

well, i would strongly advise keeping your equip load <25% (the medium roll is crap and it's better if you get used to the fast roll only), and the upgraded wanderer armour is one of the very best light armours in the game (so feel free to stick with it up to the very end of the game (if you like the looks. if you don't there are other good light-med armour sets ) and upgrade it when you have shards/chunks left from upgrading weapons). the hollow soldier/warrior sets are largely worthless and the only good thing they have (compared to your wanderer armour) is poise, but that thing isn't really that important for PvE, especially if you're good at dodging. when you look at the stats of equipment it may be useful, it's better to go into the "equipment" rather than the "inventory" menu 'cause you can easily compare that stats (press the equivalent of the "square" button on your controller, the one that is for using consumable items, for a more detailed look at equipment stats and easier comparison)

yeah, they did a pretty shitty job at explaining humanity in-game. anyway: as you have noticed, whenever you level up your defence stats go up by a small margin (plus maybe something else depending on the stat you raised), so humanity basically acts as a "free level up" in that regard (it's not much, but it's something, especially early on), then as you have noticed it increases the item discovery rate (but it caps at 10), and it serves as a scaling stat for an upgrade path (chaos) and 2 weapons that can be crafted from one boss soul (both dex weapons .. oh, and the scaling also caps at 10 humanity). other than that, it serves as ranking up material for 2 covenants, and to turn yourself human (so that you can summon and/or invade) and to kindle bonfires (i.e. upping the count of estus flasks that you can get from resting at a bonfire. right now you can get 10 of them with 1 kindling but later on you'll unlock the ability to kindle up to 20 flasks). and consuming "item humanity" heals you completely

btw, there's a nice early farming place where you are now (roughly 550 souls every 30secs), but it requires that you beat the undead burg boss (it's relatively easy to find/figure out, and i personally wouldn't consider it a spoiler since the souls that you get aren't that great but they're good to buy those few useful items from the merchant and that first blacksmith). for some more "serious" (not to mention infinitely more fun) soul farming imho it would be better to put down your soul sign (you'll understand once you beat the taurus demon ) at the Undead Parish near the elevator (your next destination) since that area should still be relatively busy (or at least it was on ps3 a couple of weeks back )

 

[Clockwork Knight]

 

[Xi]

The game also allows you to unlock shortcuts to make traveling about easier. Look for them and figure out where they take you. Generally you have to find a key, defeat a boss, or turn on a mechanical device. They are a reward for your progression. They help.

 

[Excidium]

I can see where this is going.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS AS WE UNCOVER THE RANGE OF GAMES THAT SKYWAYS AND PCTARDS ARE NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IT IS NO WONDER THINGS ARE DUMMER NOW

BROS LOOLLOLOL IT ISNT CONSOLE PLAYERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DECLINE IT IS PCTARDS LAPPING UP RETARTED SHIT AND NOT HAVING ENOUGH BRIANS TO PLAY ANYTHING BESIDES THE NEXT BETHESDA OR BIOWARE GAME

BROS LOLLOLOL THE FUNNIEST THING ABOUT PCTARDS IS THAT THEY ARE PROUD OF NOT HAVING BRIANS AT LEAST THE LITTLE TEN YEAR OLD HALO KIDS DONT REALLY THINK THEY ARE THAT SMART

 

[Stabwound]

Fuck, I hope this really is a PC announcement and not some DLC bullshit. It seems all but certain that it's a PC announcement given the evidence, I guess. You guys have really got me excited about this game; I'll probably even remove it from an inventory if the online is a big part of the experience.

 

[Infinitron]

BROS AS WE UNCOVER THE RANGE OF GAMES THAT SKYWAYS AND PCTARDS ARE NOT INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND IT IS NO WONDER THINGS ARE DUMMER NOW

BROS LOOLLOLOL IT ISNT CONSOLE PLAYERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DECLINE IT IS PCTARDS LAPPING UP RETARTED SHIT AND NOT HAVING ENOUGH BRIANS TO PLAY ANYTHING BESIDES THE NEXT BETHESDA OR BIOWARE GAME

BROS LOLLOLOL THE FUNNIEST THING ABOUT PCTARDS IS THAT THEY ARE PROUD OF NOT HAVING BRIANS AT LEAST THE LITTLE TEN YEAR OLD HALO KIDS DONT REALLY THINK THEY ARE THAT SMART

BRO LOLOLLOL WHAT CONSOLE OR CONSOLES DO YOU OWN ANYWAY I AM CURIOUS
DO YOU NOT HAVE A GAMING PC AT ALL

 

[Wyrmlord]

This video works surprisingly well as an endorsement of the game.

I really can't wait to fight that guy who leaps or speeds from the other side of the giant room.

 

[Xi]

I really can't wait to fight that guy who leaps or speeds from the other side of the giant room.

That fight is a giant pain in the ass when you are first learning it. Probably varies in difficulty with character design, but god damn it's a bitch. lol, I played offline and had to solo that shit. Must have died a dozen^2 times before I finally defeated them.

Spoiler

The trick is partially in who you kill first.

 

[Damned Registrations]

It's definitely a brutal fight if you're alone. My first playthrough was not only offline, but I didn't realize you needed to be alive to summon NPC phantoms, so I soloed every single boss.

I think a lot of the dissonance people have about the difficulty is people who went through online vs offline, and alive vs dead. If you had helpers with you the whole game I can see it being pretty easy, especially if they're overlevelled (and they often are) and just killing everything for you and saving you from traps.

 

[Wyrmlord]

For some reason, Divinity 2 and Dark Souls blur together in my mind. I keep thinking, "What was that one outrageous over the top ARPG that people in the Codex love so much?" Of course, I have yet to get either but intend to do so.

 

[made]

I certainly hope combat in DS is more involved than in DKS. That was a poster child for button mashing and potion spamming. I still don't get why Codex loves it so much.

 

[Tolknaz]

Skyway & company are fucking idiots. From what i've seen of this game, it's by far the closest thing to Severance, that has ever been made. And if you don't think Severance has the best melee combat in any action game ever, then you're a clueless pansy with no taste in gaming. Simple as that. Go and play KOTOR for the 8th time or troll AOD some more, you ukrainan manboob.

 

[Roguey]

I certainly hope combat in DS is more involved than in DKS. That was a poster child for button mashing and potion spamming. I still don't get why Codex loves it so much.

I didn't like it all that much, but exploration of the main areas was nice and it was funny for the most part. And yeah I can tell at a glance that Dark Souls has a much better character system and combat.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

well, i would strongly advise keeping your equip load <25% (the medium roll is crap and it's better if you get used to the fast roll only), and the upgraded wanderer armour is one of the very best light armours in the game (so feel free to stick with it up to the very end of the game (if you like the looks. if you don't there are other good light-med armour sets ) and upgrade it when you have shards/chunks left from upgrading weapons).

Medium roll is fine, what are you talking about? Trying to stay under 25% is way too hard, anyway, it's impossible to do with anything but the lightest weapons/armour. Medium rolls with good poise and a high stability shield are way better than light rolls with no poise and a low stability one.

 

[praetor]

Medium roll is fine, what are you talking about? Trying to stay under 25% is way too hard, anyway, it's impossible to do with anything but the lightest weapons/armour. Medium rolls with good poise and a high stability shield are way better than light rolls with no poise and a low stability one.

not my fault that you suck. it's very easy to stay <25% with a dex character with light armour and excellent defences/resistances, the eagle shield is stupidly light but there are plenty of good light-medium, parrying, ~3.0 weight shields anyway (even 66-70 stability will make the whole game a breeze). fast roll is, duh, faster, has more invincibility frames, covers more ground (and still it pales in comparison to the ninjaflip). poise in PvE is mostly useless since no enemy combos so fast that you cannot escape stunlock before getting killed even with 0 poise (and if you aggro a bunch of enemies and you get ganged up, well.. stop being stupid). every decent (or better) player will tell you: mobility>defence/poise. i also forgot to mention that you run faster when <25% EQ load (it helps greatly when farming or doing "errands"). and in PvP you need 53 or 76 poise, but if don't suck you'll have the DWGR and RoFaP anyway so...

 

[Antagonist]

It comes down to how you intend to handle damage in DkS (and DeS) which also has massive impact on gameplay. You either go the damage reduction route with heavy armor at the cost of mobility or damage avoidance via careful evasion of attacks and use of terrain. Personally I prefer the later as I think with fast movement, parry and quick (light) weapons the melee combat system of DkS really starts to shine. I can understand the appeal of slow, heavy weapons which have totally different requirements regarding timing and stamina management but it's just not my cup of tea. For the record, I have played and finished both DeS and DkS with <25% weight characters. It's definitely doable.

 

[racofer]

Improved.

 

[Kylearan]

It pleases me that the larger community is discovering this fine game. Definitely my favourite of the past few years.

I had a hell of a hard time (at least until the end) trying to beat the game pure melee the first time. I started with the knight class, and ended up wearing giant armour and wielding a lightning zweihander and the greatshield of Astora. Gwyn fell like a bitch :D

I had a lot easier time doing a sorcery specialist the second run through. I love the variety of playstyles in this game! I think I'll try a dex fighter next.

 

[praetor]

It comes down to how you intend to handle damage in DkS (and DeS) which also has massive impact on gameplay. You either go the damage reduction route with heavy armor at the cost of mobility or damage avoidance via careful evasion of attacks and use of terrain. Personally I prefer the later as I think with fast movement, parry and quick (light) weapons the melee combat system of DkS really starts to shine. I can understand the appeal of slow, heavy weapons which have totally different requirements regarding timing and stamina management but it's just not my cup of tea. For the record, I have played and finished both DeS and DkS with <25% weight characters. It's definitely doable.

not really. (in PvE) damage reduction (while certainly not as irrelevant as in DeS) isn't that big of a deal, and considering good light armour has, on average, better elemental/magic defences at the expense of a bit of physical defence there's really only one reason to wear heavy armour: poise. and poise really matter only for big slow weapons to make landing hits a bit easier (particularly vs groups of enemies and/or fast attacking enemies)

for the record, DeS had fast rolling with <50% load (and DkS does too if you sacrifice a ring slot)