The Codex's official opinion on VtM Bloodlines

[SCO]

But really, i too agree there was to much combat for the game that it was supposed to be. The ending grates especially, because it is nothing more than a bum rush to enemy strongholds.

I'd like sabbath faction ending. I'd like a stealth ending that is substantially different of permanent obsfuscate that auto dissipates when you get to the faction boss. I'd like a pure cammarilla diplomacy ending, even if it worked badly to the player. I'd like a "joke" ending, but serious, that shows one or more of the starting gehenna scenarios. I'd like a betrayer ending where you meet up with a faction boss, only to backstab them without getting through the tedious level - harder fight ofcourse.
I'd like real tactical combat with destructible walls, attacks of opportunity, ai that challenges the player, coup de grace with stakes, and all that fun stuff.

And that bodies didn't disappear, and could be hidden like thief.

And a pony.

 

[SCO]

Even Deus Ex allowed one to just ... run away, after getting what i want.

Why do i have to kill Ming Xiao if i just want the key? (She detected you). Why did she detect you? (stealth is impossible in cutscene events). Why is that? (plot branches cause the current rpg design status quo to make it impossibly costly to plan for alternatives). Any remedy except money and time?

The best games don't behave like movies. There is no single narrative, but many narrative branches. However wise designers never apply this to the main quest, or minimize it a lot (deus ex). It simply affects to much, is too costly, and turns out buggy more often than not.
But i'm disappointed in bloodlines, especially, since this was possible at the ending. There is almost no game left to contradict during the ending missions. A little bit on non-linearity or even more effects of the ingame behaviors would be stellar (there are some alliances opened and cut if you do somethings in game, that is good. But it's just one sequence. I guess since there is no diplomacy ending, it is not very relevant. Maybe except the ming xiao ending).

 

[Tycn]

I had to use noclip and godmode to make it through the last part of the game. I remember being extremely confused as to why there was so much fucking combat.

 

[Serious_Business]

Sup in this thread faggots

 

[Jaesun]

Somebody who knows their WoD:

Can you explain this statement mondblut? How so?

 

[pero]

I'm sure I read this thread a few months ago.

 

[roll-a-die]

Somebody who knows their WoD:

Can you explain this statement mondblut? How so?

Werewolves should have fucking murdered you. Even with Nines, the Ancilae around.

The Prince or Sheriff should have had you put before the sun at the end of the meeting.

The anarch's shouldn't have even been at court.

Nine's should have been beaten for speaking up like that during court.

You shouldn't be seeing the prince, but rather an intermediary between the prince and yourself.

Since you are a childe being allowed to live after your sire is killed, you should have been given to someone for training. Nope, you're given Neonate status fresh from the womb/grave, you badass, you.

Your ghoul should have been killed after you didn't present her in the first night.

You shouldn't have been allowed at all to mouth off.

The graveyard should have been torched by that point.

The catacombs are completely fucking stupid. The undercity is very complex, areas that aren't for the Nos are generally taken by other supernaturals.

The hengeyokai should have been dead. And also should have massacred you.

You wouldn't see vampires fighting the the street.

The plague thing, shouldn't have been allowed to get to the point it did.

LaCriox should have gotten fired(IE given a status of domain of bad standing) by that point, he seems to have pissed off allot of more powerful people.

The Regent is almost NEVER EVER EVER, the Tremere primogen, it's generally a prized apprentice or an ancillae who works for him.

At the point the domain is at, you would have seen allot more heavy hitters. Possibly even a fucking Justicar coming to purge it.

Once again LaCriox should be dead for fucking with the Tremere.

The Gargoyle should have been quickly found and rebound to the Tremere.

The Gargoyle should have been very weak to mind affecting disciplines.

The Malk is too cheerful. And would have gotten killed by his sire or the others of the domain in a motherfucking hurry.

Heather wouldn't have been that devoted from 1 drink. It takes multiple successive nights of drinking blood to bind someone.

The Tzimisce was rather stupid. You don't flesh craft that many creatures without a major purpose. And you most certainly don't let them loose in the Sewers to piss of the others in the sewer system and let them know, holy shit, there's a fucking Tzimisce in town.

The Sabbat should have been wiped out age's ago with the amount of Ancillae in the city.

A FUCKING VOHZD?! Why the fuck is that there, and why is it so small. How the hell did Andrei make it.

If there's so many supernaturals in the city where the fuck are the mage's.

How is Pisha not dead?

Where are the Ravnos? You feature every other clan but not the fucking Ravnos?

For that matter, this is fucking LA, I'd expect to see a Settite at least in Hollywood.

I can go on if you want me to?

 

[dr. one]

^ with the exceptions of graveyard and vampire street fights, everything else has little to no merit as far as the game´s own coherence is concerned.

 

[Jaesun]

I see. Have you ever read Vampire: The Masquerade rulebook by chance roll-a-die? (Specifically WW 2002)

 

[roll-a-die]

I see. Have you ever read Vampire: The Masquerade rulebook by chance roll-a-die? (Specifically WW 2002)

Yers, along with the Cam, Anarch and Sabbat guide, the majority of the clan guides, the cub scout handbook, the big book of paths, the ST manual, and 3 of the by night books. As well as having run a venue of about 20 people in a troupe game and Admined a MUD for about 2 years until Gehenna.

Also, Revised was WW 1999, there was no version after that.

EDIT, Though you might be thinking of the 2003 Vampires PLAYER'S Guide

 

[Gay-Lussac]

snipe

Jesus Christ, how do you people actually manage to think of all these things instead of just enjoying the game is beyond me

 

[roll-a-die]

snipe

Jesus Christ, how do you people actually manage to think of all these things instead of just enjoying the game is beyond me

I actually like the game until I start thinking about it in the context of the actual lore of the universe. Then I get annoyed and make posts like that one on the internet.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

:D

Thank god that Bloodlines was my first contact with the WoD, then. What a fuckiing great game

 

[Jaesun]

EDIT, Though you might be thinking of the 2003 Vampires PLAYER'S Guide

actually it is [VtM2] : Vampire: the Masquerade (2nd ed) (WW 2002)

 

[roll-a-die]

2nd ed was 97 IIRC. Revised came after.

 

[Jaesun]

Revised is WW 2300

 

[Black Cat]

And for the one who said that Mages and Vampires don't ever appear together outside of anecdotes and origin stories...

... the continuing conflict between the Order of Hermes and Clan Tremere in modern times getting it's own book seems to be more than anecdotical, and it's just one example.

And let's not mention poor, poor Ravnos.

with the exceptions of graveyard and vampire street fights, everything else has little to no merit as far as the game´s own coherence is concerned.

What about the main quest forcing you into breaking the Masquerade during the fight on the chinatown club against the chinese gangster guys? The event is reported on the news afterwards, including declarations of witnesses about how it was just like a movie. If you are a Tremere that fight includes a very liberal use of Thaumaturgy, too, and even if you weren't to use any discipline you would still soak so much lead it's not even funny.

But you don't get a Masquerade breach for it because it's forced upon you. And, actually, no one ever mentions it again. At the same time, you run slightly fast in front of a random bum no one would listen seriously and you get a Masquerade breach. How's that for the game's own coherence?

 

[roll-a-die]

Revised is WW 2300

oh durr, your talking about the numbering system, I saw 2002 and thought, DATE! Sorry blond moment.

 

[dr. one]

How's that for the game's own coherence?

make no mistake, i certainly don´t consider the game to be an exemplary bastion of coherence and the gangster example is a fuck up, for sure.
from Chinatown onwards, the game is mostly terrible and so rushed it´s not even funny. well, maybe a little.

 

[Rod Rodderson]

I do mostly agree with the folks arguing against it being a good adaptation. Love the game and all, but it really didn't make sense, setting-wise, in some areas. It was alright internally though, which is, I think, more important (as in, it didn't contradict itself too much).

One thing.

The Regent is almost NEVER EVER EVER, the Tremere primogen, it's generally a prized apprentice or an ancillae who works for him.

That and the scourge thing, actually, I'd be willing to chalk up to the fact that the Camarilla hadn't been organized in LA long enough. How long was it, anyway? I can't seem to remember at this point. A couple years? It's clearly in a state of disarray.

 

[roll-a-die]

I do mostly agree with the folks arguing against it being a good adaptation. Love the game and all, but it really didn't make sense, setting-wise, in some areas. It was alright internally though, which is, I think, more important (as in, it didn't contradict itself too much).

One thing.

The Regent is almost NEVER EVER EVER, the Tremere primogen, it's generally a prized apprentice or an ancillae who works for him.

That and the scourge thing, actually, I'd be willing to chalk up to the fact that the Camarilla hadn't been organized in LA long enough. How long was it, anyway? I can't seem to remember at this point. A couple years? It's clearly in a state of disarray.

Anarch freestate had been in effect for around 12 years, then came I think WoN(been awhile) and the freestate collapsed to Sabbat and Camarilla incursion. The Sabbat got so strong on the west coast that eventually the Cam started accepting Anarch's back into their ranks with no penalty for past crimes.

There was a prince from 96 on, and then there was LaCroix that came after him, then another person after him.

 

[Radisshu]

Hahahaha, oh my god. The more I read of this thread, the gladder I become that Troika didn't follow WoD lore very strictly. The game is internally coherent, like someone said. If Troika suddenly threw the Technocracy in your face it'd really feel like they pulled something out of their ass, and it would completely break the mood.

Why have you even read this shit? It's complete bollocks.

 

[Jaesun]

Breaking the Rules

One of the biggest decisions a Storyteller ever makes is when she first decides to ignore the rules. This is completely legitimate, provided it is done for the right reasons and in the right way. In fact, we encourage you to break the rules, it is your prerogative as a Storyteller.

From time to time, situations will arise when applying the full letter of the rules would cause the story to slow or even collapse. For example, imagine the climax of the story in which the characters have just spent several weeks finding and recovering a medieval tome which contains vital information about the Sabbat who have entered the city.

There are other ways out of this situation as well: your job, and privilege, is to decide which means you will use. Sometimes simply letting the chronicle come to an end is the best way to teach the players that their actions, and the vagaries of the dice, really do have the effect upon your world.

-Vampire: The Masquerade WW2002, page 60, last paragraph

 

[roll-a-die]

Hahahaha, oh my god. The more I read of this thread, the gladder I become that Troika didn't follow WoD lore very strictly. The game is internally coherent, like someone said. If Troika suddenly threw the Technocracy in your face it'd really feel like they pulled something out of their ass, and it would completely break the mood.

Why have you even read this shit? It's complete bollocks.

Um, yeah, and Zombie Graveyard tended by a ghoul, as well as a meeting of Giovanni isn't crazy. Also sneaking into the Giovanni, a fucking clan that in V.game and in PnP is noted for the vast connection to each other they have. Every Giovanni vampire knows who the other Giovanni vampires are. Knows what they look like, and knows how they act, and their individual vices.

IE, Oh this guy ghouled his daughters and likes dosing them with coke and feeding while fucking them.

 

[roll-a-die]

Breaking the Rules

One of the biggest decisions a Storyteller ever makes is when she first decides to ignore the rules. This is completely legitimate, provided it is done for the right reasons and in the right way. In fact, we encourage you to break the rules, it is your prerogative as a Storyteller.

From time to time, situations will arise when applying the full letter of the rules would cause the story to slow or even collapse. For example, imagine the climax of the story in which the characters have just spent several weeks finding and recovering a medieval tome which contains vital information about the Sabbat who have entered the city.

There are other ways out of this situation as well: your job, and privilege, is to decide which means you will use. Sometimes simply letting the chronicle come to an end is the best way to teach the players that their actions, and the vagaries of the dice, really do have the effect upon your world.

-Vampire: The Masquerade WW2002, page 60, last paragraph

Very true, but that refers to very specific cases. IE plot necessary cases, that don't really violate basic concepts of lore.

And really if your doing a freaking cross over game, your going to get comments and questions about the fucking Rokea. Or about the generico Werewolves.

In terms of thematics and lore, that graveyard would have been torched long ago, the sewer's would have never been taken over, the cult would have been dead the moment CDC came to town, simply because the vampires, DON'T LIKE CHANGE, something happens, IE CDC comes into town, they say fuck I need them gone, they are annoying me, and are dangerous, so you assign who ever is there, likely the player group, to fixing it, IMMEDIATELY. The zombie graveyard would have been discovered by kine the moment 2 people wanted to fuck in privacy.