The Codex's official opinion on VtM Bloodlines

[Archibald]

OH NOE SOMEBODY SAID THAT TROIKA`S GMAE ISN`t PERFECT!!!11

fags.

 

[CrimHead]

Lame FPS + lotsa railroading = win

Aren't you the one always bitching about storyfags and the like?

The plot is linear, sure, but the gameplay certainly isn't (at least for the majority of the game. after the sewers shit goes into full pew pew mode). There are tons of choices on how to approach your problems. If the game had kept the same level of quality up until the sewers all throughout, then I'm sure it'd be remembered as an even better FPS/RPG hybrid than Deus Ex itself.

 

[roll-a-die]

Lame FPS + lotsa railroading = win

Aren't you the one always bitching about storyfags and the like?

The plot is linear, sure, but the gameplay certainly isn't (at least for the majority of the game. after the sewers shit goes into full pew pew mode). There are tons of choices on how to approach your problems.

Yeah for about the first 4 hours, then it starts to go down hill, then around 7 hours in you hit hollywood and chinatown and realize FUCK, WHY IS EVERYTHING COMBAT!@@#!@#

 

[Glyphwright]

Gehenna had not begun and many Camarilla vampires did believe all that to be just mythical crap anyway. So why they were running the risk of violating the Masquerade by openly fighting in the middle of the street and in front of a hospital? A hospital, remember, that is not under LaCroix power since he needs you to infiltrate in and steal the Werewolf blood instead of just pulling some strings.

Gehenna had all but started at that point, there was a sense of anxiety in the air of LA, Caine himself was walking/driving around, and the city had just gone through a terrorist attack by the Sabbat. Again, it doesn't matter if it was outside a hospital "not under Lacroix's power" - the streets were deserted and barricaded, which allows us to assume some sort of evacuation/order to stay indoors with the windows shut was made prior to that.

Only a larping storyfag can actually believe gameplay and setting have anything to do with each other.

Only a moron would think that they do not.

The game still offers several different ways to solve quests for a good stretch of it's lenght, well written dialogue, good voice acting, pretty and moody art design, and interesting situations every now and then. It just doesn't do WoD well at all.

Again, that's your way of saying "it does things differently than that book I had read". Again I tell you it doesn't matter, it's not a point which tells us how good or bad the game is.

It doesn't hold a lot in common with WoD in general and VtM in particular

More baseless nerdy exaggerations? Nigga, please.

No, i did say it wasn't in any way related to the story or themes of the game

See above.

My only point is it is a bad adaptation of the setting

See above. I'm only saying this because I never bothered to read Kindred of the East in big detail, the book bored me.

I don't much like Vampire, so i doubt it's nerdrage

Don't doubt it, you're writing walls of text and calling others retards with angry spit flying around because of a baseless accusation at unfaithfullness to the canon that doesn't have anything to do with VTMB being a good/bad game. It's nerdrage.

it's boring compared to what it could have been if it actually translated the setting and themes into a videogame in any way

That's your assumption. ToEE has been a faithful translation - it's boring as fuck. In fact, it's the only modern game that's so faithful to the original setting, and the only one so monumentally boring. Maybe that's the reason? Books are written for pen-and-paper RPGs.

Is Bloodlines a good adaptation when someone who dislikes the original material actually likes the adaptation?

I like the original material, and I like Bloodlines because it captures the mood well.

 

[SCO]

Lame FPS + lotsa railroading = win

Aren't you the one always bitching about storyfags and the like?

The plot is linear, sure, but the gameplay certainly isn't (at least for the majority of the game. after the sewers shit goes into full pew pew mode). There are tons of choices on how to approach your problems. If the game had kept the same level of quality up until the sewers all throughout, then I'm sure it'd be remembered as an even better FPS/RPG hybrid than Deus Ex itself.

Deus ex has the advantage that many of its levels are a lot bigger - not exactly that there is more stuff to do, but that things make more sense & there is no real nexus - you do what you need to do, do the sidequest or not, and move on. If you really think about it, all of the main city zones could fit into a deus ex level.

Bloodlines suffered from a budget problem - if you're going to have a game with constantly accessible iconic characters, they better have something new to say and do through the main quest.

 

[mpxd]

Somehow, this reminds me of talking about KOTOR2 in the presence of SW fans. Can't quite place my finger on it, though.

 

[mondblut]

Aren't you the one always bitching about storyfags and the like?

I am. Isn't railroading a storyfag's tear of joy? After all, you can't tell an epically immersive story if that naughty player gets to have a hand in it. He might, gasp, do the things in a wrong order, or bypass that quest you are so proud of, and stuff.

The plot is linear, sure, but the gameplay certainly isn't

VTMB had gameplay?

If the game had kept the same level of quality up until the sewers all throughout, then I'm sure it'd be remembered as an even better FPS/RPG hybrid than Deus Ex itself.

FPS/RPG hybrids shouldn't exist in the first place. Fucking period.

 

[mondblut]

Thread in one post:

Fanbois: Running from werewolf, yay! A japanese schoolgirl, wooho! Cain is a cabbie, lolololol! Bethroika rooooolez! Todd Caine, we luv you!

Somebody who knows their WoD:

Get back to your fallout 3, faggots, it's a game right up your alley. :spit:

 

[Excidium]

VtM:B is good for what it is.

It makes zero sense that the player can do all that shit in his first week of unlife.

If a neonate can kick the Sabbath, the Camarilla and the Kuei jin out of LA (also a werewolf...and a whole army of hunters), then what the hell are the Anarchs doing sitting on that bar? They have an Elder on their ranks FFS.

 

[CrimHead]

I am. Isn't railroading a storyfag's tear of joy? After all, you can't tell an epically immersive story if that naughty player gets to have a hand in it. He might, gasp, do the things in a wrong order, or bypass that quest you are so proud of, and stuff.

Well just go ahead and bypass my point completely so you can keep reiterating the same "combat and nothing else" mentality you've been spouting for half a decade. If you'd stopped for more than half a second to analyze my post instead of instinctively replying you'd realize there was a little more to my question than determining whether you were a certain poster. There's railroading. Cool. You have to do the quests in a certain order. Cool. The plot is more or less static. Cool. Welcome to the magical world of video games, where this is true for nearly every game ever made. Why should you care though, if you're all about gameplay? VtmB allows you to approach a given quest in tons of different ways. Crawl through some ducts, hack a computer, pick a lock; seduce, persuade, intimidate, or dominate, sneak around and avoid combat or blast your way through the level rambo style. So again-- the plot is linear, the gameplay is not. And you only care about gameplay, right?

 

[mondblut]

Welcome to the magical world of video games, where this is true for nearly every game ever made.

Bullshit. From Mount & Blade or Darklands to Dominions or Jagged Alliance, all good games are openended and not chained by some stupid plot.

Why should you care though, if you're all about gameplay?

A freedom of exploration is immanently a part of the RPG gameplay. In fact, it is the only reason to play RPGs in the first place, otherwise I'd just play generic mission-based tactical sims and ignore this half-assed genre which can't decide where it sits altogether.

So again-- the plot is linear, the gameplay is not. And you only care about gameplay, right?

Give me a party and proper TB combat, and I might *start* caring.

 

[Raghar]

If the game had kept the same level of quality up until the sewers all throughout, then I'm sure it'd be remembered as an even better FPS/RPG hybrid than Deus Ex itself.

FPS/RPG hybrids shouldn't exist in the first place. Fucking period.

Bloodlines was RPG, DX was FPS. It was obvious from gameplay. In DX sneaking for a head shot was part of the gameplay, in Bloodlines listening to prince's, or Gary's, monologues was part of gameplay.
DX main factor for hit was a skill with mouse. Bloodlines main factor was the character's ability.

Just some people have hard time to imagine a RPG with real time controls. (Playing a single combat half hour, because of pure TB combat, sucks.)

 

[SCO]

VtM:B is good for what it is.

It makes zero sense that the player can do all that shit in his first week of unlife.

If a neonate can kick the Sabbath, the Camarilla and the Kuei jin out of LA (also a werewolf...and a whole army of hunters), then what the hell are the Anarchs doing sitting on that bar? They have an Elder on their ranks FFS.

Ingame? Who?
I thought elders were supposed to be 400+

You're not talking about jack right?
*mentally insert captain haddock lol pic here*

 

[SCO]

I thought it is heavily hinted that the player is supposed to have tampered blood (by a methuselah or the "caine" ingame).

Not that works within the rules of the P&P anyway, but it's a little bit more tolerable.

 

[CrimHead]

If the game had kept the same level of quality up until the sewers all throughout, then I'm sure it'd be remembered as an even better FPS/RPG hybrid than Deus Ex itself.

FPS/RPG hybrids shouldn't exist in the first place. Fucking period.

Bloodlines was RPG, DX was FPS. It was obvious from gameplay. In DX sneaking for a head shot was part of the gameplay, in Bloodlines listening to prince's, or Gary's, monologues was part of gameplay.
DX main factor for hit was a skill with mouse. Bloodlines main factor was the character's ability.

Just some people have hard time to imagine a RPG with real time controls. (Playing a single combat half hour, because of pure TB combat, sucks.)

Not sure if troll.

In Deus Ex your ability to lockpick, hack, or shoot depend on your stats, exactly as in Bloodlines... that isn't the definition of an RPG? Does its lack of any implementation of social or stealth skills somehow prevent it from obtaining that status?

 

[Excidium]

VtM:B is good for what it is.

It makes zero sense that the player can do all that shit in his first week of unlife.

If a neonate can kick the Sabbath, the Camarilla and the Kuei jin out of LA (also a werewolf...and a whole army of hunters), then what the hell are the Anarchs doing sitting on that bar? They have an Elder on their ranks FFS.

Ingame? Who?
I thought elders were supposed to be 400+

You're not talking about jack right?
*mentally insert captain haddock lol pic here*

Yes, I'm talking about Jack. Isn't he well over 400 years old?

 

[SCO]

He is 10 generation or something - a lightweight.

 

[Excidium]

He is 10 generation or something - a lightweight.

Always assumed him to be at least 8th generation or something, what with his super mysterious past and his fame for screwing with the camarilla everywhere he goes.

 

[SCO]

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack

 

[Excidium]

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack

Ah, I see.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Black Cat]

which allows us to assume

So it basically is that Troika didn't knew what the fuck to do to explain it so it's up to the player to think of an explanation for it? I'm sorry, but no. Events that require jumps in logic or highly improbable sequences of events to happen are the responsability of the writer to explain. If he doesn't, is a failure of the writing.

it's not a point which tells us how good or bad the game is.

And how good the game is or isn't it's not the point. The point is that the game isn't faithful to the setting. If you don't care whether the game is faithful to the setting or not and I don't care whether is it good or not, why are we still going on about this?

More baseless nerdy exaggerations?

There's only one baseless set of arguments in this discussion. I, and others, have provided plenty of examples of the ways on which the game is inconsistent with the setting. Your answer was that you cared not about it being consistent with the setting. As i said before, cool, but that doesn't make the game any less of a lousy adaptation.

Don't doubt it, you're writing walls of text and calling others retards with angry spit flying around because of a baseless accusation at unfaithfullness to the canon that doesn't have anything to do with VTMB being a good/bad game. It's nerdrage.

I call a retard a retard, sorry, and it has nothing to do with nerdrage. The same would happen if we were discussing bloody Pac Man, as long as the arguments in favor of it were lousy. If i'm talking to people that presumes of being gaming's intelectual elite i expect they do more than touch each other while talking of Arcanum and Torment, and i expect certainly more than having to explain the same things thrice because people ignores wording and context or prefers to argue with what they are imagining i'm saying, and i expect more than people throwing around their half-assed beliefs like they are facts.

Example: You say only a moron would believe quality of setting and quality of gameplay to be isolated. At the same time there are thousands of great games, from a gameplay perspective, that have no setting at all outside evil is over there, murder! Now, what's your argument and what are your evidences about how gameplay and setting can't be isolated, again? That you say so? Retard. Games don't require a setting to be games. Therefore, settings aren't inherently related to gameplay. Moron.

At the same time, given we have provided many examples of what the game does wrong on relation to the setting I expect people to either disprove those examples or shut down. Instead, they whine, they can't decide whether they care about the setting or not, etc. Therefore i call retards for what they are, retards.

ToEE has been a faithful translation - it's boring as fuck. In fact, it's the only modern game that's so faithful to the original setting, and the only one so monumentally boring.

So, is it a good and faithful adaptation or it isn't because being so would be boring? Also, I did not say a faithful adaptation was inherently not boring. I said World of Darkness had more than enough material to make a faithful adaptation not boring, and instead they managed to make a both boring and unfaithful adaptation.

I like the original material, and I like Bloodlines because it captures the mood well.

In which way does the sewers, the kuei jin temple, the office building at the end, the battle at the ruined hotel, the zombie quest on the cemetery, the werewolf battle, the giovanni mansion, etc, etc, etc capture the mood of the setting? In which way having a neonate slaughtering every major power player, a werewolf, a small army of fleshcrafted monsters, etc, etc, etc in a week's time captures the mood of the setting?

Also, even if you can answer that, in which way does Bloodlines capture and translates the themes, concepts, and elements of the setting? I'm hoping a good answer here since you actually just said you like the setting. If I, who don't really think is all that impressive, have a better understanding of the setting than you do i'm calling retard and it has nothing, again, to do with nerdrage.

 

[aweigh]

I think Bloodlines captured the feeling of its setting quite well, to say otherwise would simply be false. Can you call the game anything other than a WoD-derived PC game? Truthfully? I love D&D to bits, but do you think I care when games like NWN or whatnot do everything wrong? No, I judge it based on its own context, its own in-game world homogeny.

Bloodlines succeeds as a WoD game on nearly every single facet, it's a true bro achievement, and one of the reasons Troika is sorely missed. It's gonna be years before we see games with such spirit and intellect and talent behind them again.

It's funny though, all the people who liked Bloodlines are judging it solely on its merits as a PC game, while the morons are splitting Cain's pubic hairs about whether or not weresharks run around in the forest. Grow the fuck up.

 

[aweigh]

Also, it's a good adaptation because it successfully translated the source material into the framework the developers designed for their PC game, a seperate entity from the pen and paper game.

But like I said a million times before some people here just can't grasp the concept of adaptations, god help us all.

 

[SCO]

Caine

 

[aweigh]

Caine