The Codexian Saga LP

[laclongquan]

And after this obvivous land grab, guerrila resistance will spring up like poisonous musrooms after rains. They gave us benefit of the doubt before, but now that we show our cloven hoof they dont need gentle restraints anymore. Keep that system this time is a fool's errand.

we're not even sure the shields are functional. why are we rushing things?

Because our backs are on the wall. I will remind you once again that we can defeat Hiin at current tech with odds of 2 to 1 and strategic surprise on our part. Now that our allies are defeated, the Hiin will need a short time to reconsolidate and prepare a new fleet and they could raid us to destruction. Some simple hit n run tactic on nodal system to destroy infrastructure, some simple weapons smuggle on to Sonata plus some mind tweaking and we have a big Peninsula war on our hand. Not that the Sonatan need mindtweak.

 

[Nickless]

The Bron are still going strong however, and the original invasion force almost seemed like a way to cull the weak alphas from the empire.

 

[laclongquan]

Are you willing to bet your near future against that unknown factor? Because that is precisely a bet, not an uninformed opinion.

And that is not the point. The future of Codexia is in our hands, not other's, and especially not in the fickle winds of fate and luck. We must be ready for what is to come, not depend on others solving for us.

 

[Nickless]

It's a bet either way however, our economy could collapse and we'd be in the shitter as far as the hope of any effort against the Hin'in succeeding goes. Besides, the Hin'in have shown little interest in our own territory so far, only that of the Commonwealth's. If worse comes to worse and they invade soon, they're still likely to go for the Commonwealth first and then advance upon us. The Commonwealth will act as a nice comfy buffer until our ships become operational.

 

[Nickless]

If we hadn't brought in a bunch of obsolete ships last term at the expense of our economy, then, and only then, would I be in favour of the first A. There's no need to give it any more of a beating than it's suffered already.

 

[laclongquan]

What you said is news to me. Please elaborate as why you think, and I quote, "the Hin'in have shown little interest in our own territory so far". I find the opposite of that statement, so I am fascinated to see your train of thoughts.

And your second statement "they're still likely to go for the Commonwealth first and then advance upon us". I shake my head as I reading this. Are you telling me that we need to stick our heads in the sand in hope that danger wont find us, and pray that danger find other preys tastier than us?

From your own logic, we are leaving the bugs to be the prey of Hiin. Well, they are decisively defeated, and will be in Hiin's stomach in a short time. How much time the Commo will stand against that juggernaut if we still refuse to rearm? And how much longer will we survive if they turn their full strength on us.

This is really fascinated to me in these days and ages of Venerable Respublica of Codexia. I expect this kind of behaviours from the old decadent Republic Senate, not this from fanatic zealots who is hell-bent on xenocide.

 

[meeneque]

BB willing to sway to BA if you convince me we really NEED to be on this piece of Commo shit - Sonata.

 

[praetor]

This is really fascinated to me in these days and ages of Venerable Respublica of Codexia. I expect this kind of behaviours from the old decadent Republic Senate, not this from fanatic zealots who is hell-bent on xenocide.

exactly. they call for "consistency" only when it suits them. bunch of pussies, i tell ya. not worthy of codexia

 

[treave]

BA

Flip-flop, decided not to leave Sonata in the hands of the apostates. Still think there's no point rushing out barely tested technology on our vessels. We need to pray over the shields more before they can be used. More prayers! More blessings! Do not allow our troops to march into battle with technology that has not been fully sanctified by a thousand priests, three hundred bishops, fifty cardinals and the -- (Brave Barbarian, we never got that update on the official Marianite religion, did we?)

And what are our troops doing that they have not yet begun to convert the locals? Where are our crusading missionaries?

SHAME ON THEM! THE HOLY MOTHER WEEPS IN SHAME!

To have control over an apostate world and not cleanse it?

FOR SHAME!

 

[anus_pounder]

B B

 

[Nickless]

What you said is news to me. Please elaborate as why you think, and I quote, "the Hin'in have shown little interest in our own territory so far". I find the opposite of that statement, so I am fascinated to see your train of thoughts.

The first war they expanded into the Raumen domain, in this war their focus has been on the acquisition of Commonwealth territory, not our own. While it is true that once they take the closer Commonwealth, they will look into acquiring our domain, the Commonwealth should act as a sufficient enough buffer for us to equip our shielding tech without imploding in on ourselves.

And your second statement "they're still likely to go for the Commonwealth first and then advance upon us". I shake my head as I reading this. Are you telling me that we need to stick our heads in the sand in hope that danger wont find us, and pray that danger find other preys tastier than us?

The Commonwealth border the Raumen expanse, in the old days of the Republic they were originally the borderworlds. Not once have the Hin'in gone for our territory. Any war effort against us without first taking out the Commonwealth will suffer heavy attrition. If we push our economy further we're going to suffer for it, as the Old Republic once did against the Hin'in.

From your own logic, we are leaving the bugs to be the prey of Hiin. Well, they are decisively defeated, and will be in Hiin's stomach in a short time. How much time the Commo will stand against that juggernaut if we still refuse to rearm? And how much longer will we survive if they turn their full strength on us.

It's not just the bugs we are leaving to be the prey of the Hin'in, it is the Bron as well, and from what we have heard the Hin'in consider them the true threat, we're almost inconsequential to them.

This is really fascinated to me in these days and ages of Venerable Respublica of Codexia. I expect this kind of behaviours from the old decadent Republic Senate, not this from fanatic zealots who is hell-bent on xenocide.

Just because we want xenocide, doesn't mean we should be stupid and short-term about it.

Another thing to consider is that with this long-term phasing in of the shielding tech, any kinks in its implementation will be discovered and rectified for later refurbishment operations. Six months is too short a time to work out all the faults.

 

[The Barbarian]

(Brave Barbarian, we never got that update on the official Marianite religion, did we?lol)

Indeed. The Barbarian thought it unwise to spend too many updates simply giving information. Perhaps the religion, as it stands, is best left inexact, in any case.

But, if it helps you to visualize it, consider it to be the 'modern' incarnation of Islam in its earliest iteration. Marianism bears all the characteristics that made Islam so attractive in the 7th and 8th centuries. It is highly demanding of its followers and its clergy, and has a very well defined conception of right and wrong.

In fact, you could call it a total socio-religious system, covering just about every facet of daily life, public and private.

 

[Nickless]

Those of you voting BA, consider that Sonata might again be the first point of a Hin'in invasion. If we hold it instead of the Commonwealth, then it will be our losses and not theirs, and if we have started grabbing at their territory, they're hardly likely to send us aid to hold it. Let them keep it and act as a buffer, we should be able to retake it easily enough once we are fully operational with our new ships.

 

[Radech]

BB

there is a reason why military R&D is conservative as hell, the requirements for battle are much higher than the requirements for civilian use, what happens if we rush to outfit our entire fleet with beta versions, and on first contact they BSOD all over the place... besides our economy is already stretched near breaking

On Sonata, we have the potential to gain the trust of the populace of the commonwealth, instead of showing our true face as land grabbing backstabbers...

 

[Ulminati]

I really wish we had an option C -- Shoot the blabbermouths who are spreadng the word about our shields like the traitors they are, and roll out the shields in secret within a reasonable timeframe.

 

[laclongquan]

Are you telling me that you never consider Commos' territory a portion of humanity's body? That it was and is going to be our estate. that currently is just in the hands of some ungrateful, treacherous, wimpy, upstart of cousin who is itching for a big slap from our hands?

The Commo is ours. Anyone doing the invade, pillage, rape, then burn is going to be us. Xeno shit need not apply.

We need to give them back Sonata for several tactical reasons:
One, they will no longer need to maintain a big fleet in that region to defend against US. That will point toward Hiin, naturally.
Two, we need to maintain an unsuspiscious releation with them so that when the Reconquista II launch, it will be a total surprise for them, strategically. That state of mind is difficult to attain if they harbor ill will against us on this Sonata tiny piece of estate.
Three, the Reconquista need to very quick because we certainly dont need the prolongwarfare that lead to huge bloodshed, total destruction of infrastructure, and longterm resentment on the Commo part. Strike like a lightning, no defense, the Reconquista need to be a model of Blitz war because we still got many targets out there (Phyr in dead zone, Turanei, hiin, Raumen's Reconquista III).

In short this tiny peace of system that is Sonata is small pie. Look further into our near future, my fellow councillors.

As for Shield system, we dont actually need full bugfixed system. What we need is a large enough portion with them to deter Hiin's adventure. Do I need to remind my lords and ladies that Hiin's naval strength is upward of 1200 vessels, that they can fight against us 1 on 2 and still can win? Perfection is never good enough. We just need better, for a while.

 

[Nickless]

As for Shield system, we dont actually need full bugfixed system. What we need is a large enough portion with them to deter Hiin's adventure. Do I need to remind my lords and ladies that Hiin's naval strength is upward of 1200 vessels, that they can fight against us 1 on 2 and still can win? Perfection is never good enough. We just need better, for a while.

While they can outnumber us 2 to 1, they won't. They're still occupied with the Bros, their true enemy, regardless of whether the Raumen resistance has been crushed or not.

 

[laclongquan]

Like I said, are you willing to bet the safety of humankind, the future prospect of interstellar domination, and the cold dish of revenge, on some unknown aliens on the far side of Hiin?

And it's the wrong bet anyway. You bet on Bros to keep hiin's attention away from us while I bet on their disctraction to dish out cold revenge plus territorial conquest.

 

[praetor]

While they can outnumber us 2 to 1, they won't. They're still occupied with the Bros, their true enemy, regardless of whether the Raumen resistance has been crushed or not.

they can outnumber us at much bigger odds than that (especially now that the raumen resistance is all but crushed) but they won't because they don't need to outnumber us with more than 0.6-0.8:1 with some veteran troops and alphas to utterly crush us

 

[taplonaplo]

It's unlikely that the Hin'in would strike at us immediately after they are done with the Raumen. Last time it took them much longer than 2-3 years to starrt any conflict. Why would it be different now? There is no need to strain the economy, since there is no immediate threat.

 

[Luan]

Those of you voting BA, consider that Sonata might again be the first point of a Hin'in invasion. If we hold it instead of the Commonwealth, then it will be our losses and not theirs, and if we have started grabbing at their territory, they're hardly likely to send us aid to hold it. Let them keep it and act as a buffer, we should be able to retake it easily enough once we are fully operational with our new ships.

WISDOM!

You flip floppers should flop back to your pre-flop unflopped positions.

 

[treave]

NEVER!

Let no human soul go unsaved!

 

[laclongquan]

My point exactly. And for hit and run tactics, raids doesnt even need that kinds of odds. They could afford to go at our important systems at much lower number to trash it all then get the hell out. Telepath is ideal for that kind of shits I am surprised they dont use it more extensively.

 

[The Barbarian]

Telepath is ideal for that kind of shits I am surprised they dont use it more extensively

There are limits to Hin'in psychic abilities.

Similarly, there are limits to the operational ranges of starships. The Hin'in cannot strike the core worlds of the Respublica too far removed from a logistical hub. It would have been a more viable option if the initial Hin'in commitment was larger than a few hundred vessels, as additional tankers/supply vessels/mobile docks would have been deployed.

You will note that they did, in fact, strike at Commo shipping in a manner akin to this, before the defeats at the hands of the Respublica.

 

[Undead Phoenix]

The sooner we strike, the higher the chance that we will catch the Hin'in off balance. Using experimental shield technology may cause us more casualties in the short-term, it might save us having to battle the Hin'in empire when it is fully prepared for us - saving our lives, and our ships, in the long run.

As for Sonata - what use is it to us? Why choose to stay when we gain nothing except the belligerence of the Commonwealth? Let it not be said that the followers of Santi Maria are merciless.

AB