Elder Scrolls The appeal of Skyrim

[DraQ]

I mostly agree with the video about exploration in that there are a lot of interesting places to explore and many of them tend spark my imagination (especially the ruins). The big issue when it comes to exploration is the compass at the top of the screen - not the compass itself (this is useful) but the icons that show nearby stuff. I think it robs me from the sense of discovery that the game tells me not only that there is something nearby but also what sort of "something" it is.

A good thing is that the compass is trivial to disable (I use a mod for that, but IIRC you can easily do that from ini).

As a related thought, lately i started to think that the introduction of a quest log in the Morrowind expansions wasn't such a great idea

Quest log is a handy thing but it has unfortunate implications for the structure of a game. For instance it implies clearly delineated quests, cleanly partitioned before factions and questgivers. That alone is detrimental to the game's structure.

In Morrowind it wasn't much of an issue as quest log was added on top of existing game, but designing quests in a game that already has a quest log is different and worse.

 

[DraQ]

This is a pretty good video that examines why people might have liked Skyrim. He's pretty correct, but his praise of the stealth system is a bit odd. It's neat that it tracks so many things for detection, but alert states need to be longer and enemies need to search more.

There two distinct kinds of gameplay systems and those aren't "broken" and "not broken".
They are those that are fundamentally soundly designed and those that are fundamentally broken/misdesigned.
The former can still be fixed easily if they are broken. The later can merely have their badness covered up and pretend they are good.

As it happened, most of the stuff in Skyrim, while broken, belongs in the first category, making Skyrim a solid foundation for modding that yields to having it's various shortcomings easily fixed by modding.

Stealth, for example is solid at core but broken (I'd guess purposefully, for the benefit of consoletard audiences) to make AI oblivious and demented. But since the core is actually good, just tweaking a few variables fixes that.
Skyrim in general seems to have a much more ambitious (unfinished) game inside wanting to get out, and, unlike Oblivion, the existence of this game can be actually seen in game data, rather than being purely based on devs' claims.
Tweak a few variables - bam, good stealth.
Tweak a few more - actually sensible AI.
Unearth some cut stuff - dynamic civil war campaign emerges.
Up the casting costs - the College of Winterhold actually expects you to be a capable caster and demonstrate it before letting you in.

And so on.

 

[Max Damage]

It's funny how you potentially need to cast a more complex spell to enter the college than flame and frost the questline near the end requires you to

 

[Brocken Jr.]

It's funny how you potentially need to cast a more complex spell to enter the college than flame and frost the questline near the end requires you to

In both cases there are scrolls nearby which can be used to complete the objective. You don't actually need to learn a single spell in order to complete Skyrim's mage guild questline.

 

[Cryomancer]

It's funny how you potentially need to cast a more complex spell to enter the college than flame and frost the questline near the end requires you to

In both cases there are scrolls nearby which can be used to complete the objective. You don't actually need to learn a single spell in order to complete Skyrim's mage guild questline.

And can become the masster of literally ALL guilds. Compare to MOrrowind where there are requirements to get ranks on guilds and you need to kill members of opposite factions, so is impossible to compelte fighters guild and thieves guild in the same run or even with gothic 2, where you need to commit with a guild and only become a fire magician near the end of the game...

 

[Bad Sector]

You don't actually need to learn a single spell in order to complete Skyrim's mage guild questline.

FWIW i played this recently-ish and i expected that they'd just hand you the title because you're so awesome but i think it made a bit more sense in how it actually happened:

Spoiler

there is no mage's guild in Skyrim so the academy is basically the last organized place for mages, meaning it has or can have some sort of political power. Both of its actual competent leads are killed during the quest and the remaining old guy doesn't seem interested in becoming the archmage (and i guess he'd already have the role considering his age if he wanted it). More importantly, the one who first says that you will be the new archmage (IIRC he doesn't even suggest it, he pretty much states it as a fact) is the agent -or whatever he was, i forget- from the Psyjic order who look like they have all the reasons to set up a puppet as the leader of the remaining mage organization in Skyrim, especially considering that it might become an independent nation. And really, considering what you do in the entire questline you essentially show you'd be a nice puppet for them.

Basically it doesn't matter that you're incompetent as a spellcaster because you became the archmage to be taken advantage of (something you already demonstrated to be willing to do), not cast spells.

Or at least that was my interpretation of the events during the questline anyway. Skyrim - and TES in general - isn't exactly a game where things are always clear and spelled out to you (see e.g. the example in the linked video).

 

[TemplarGR]

Being an Archmage does not mean being the best mage. Being an Arch General doesn't mean being the best soldier. Being a Prime Minister doesn't mean being the best citizen. Being a hospital director doesn't mean being the best surgeon. And so on and so forth. An Archmage is a managerial position to lead the College of Winterhold, and by completing the quests you definitely prove that you are capable of that.

As for those clowns who demand steeper entrance requirements of entry, what for? I mean, why put arbitrary gameplay restrictions in a single player game? What would that accomplice? "Oh muh immersssoooooon"! Fucking autists. Whenever i play a mage focused character in Skyrim i always learn spells anyway. I am not required to do that, but since i am LARPing a mage, i may play the part. I don't need Todd Howard to restrict me and FORCE ME to beat arbitrary restrictions because some fucking SPERGS on the RPGCodex want to nitpick about irrelevant shit.

The test by Faralda is not an ability test anyway. The College of Winterhold is a school, you are entering it to LEARN MAGIC, not to prove you already know magic. All she needs you to showcase is your affinity to cast any spell at all. Entering the college only means you are a novice entry at the college, and you go on to attend a magic 101 class.

Grow up and stop nitpicking on the best CRPG of all times.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yep. Nothing wrong with your char being the leader of every faction in the game. IRL we have people who are the general at the army, the prime minister, the king of one country and president of another, CEO of the most valued company and great leader of North Korea at the same time /sarcasm

 

[TemplarGR]

Yep. Nothing wrong with your char being the leader of every faction in the game. IRL we have people who are the general at the army, the prime minister, the king of one country and president of another, CEO of the most valued company and great leader of North Korea at the same time /sarcasm

There is literally nothing wrong with that. The ability to do that was placed there for the convenience of the players who want to see everything in the game with the same character if they so choose and to not need to start a new game. Skyrim is THEIR CRPG, they play it as they see fit. No one is dictating to them how they are gonna play it.

I never became a head of every faction in the game at once, because i prefer to make multiple characters in the game. Sometimes i can be in more than one faction for example if i make a mage/thief hybrid i am getting both Winterhold and Thief's guild. But everything is MY choice, i do what the fuck i want in MY CRPG, it is MY experience. Not Todd's. MINE!

If it breaks your immersion to be a leader of every faction at once, then fine, don't be. Just because you can, doesn't mean you have to. You can put a huge cucumber inside your anus, trust me, you can, just go into your fridge, grab one, and shove it in there. You have the capability to do that, it is not impossible or restricted. Will you? Why not? Well, because just because you can do something, doesn't mean you want to. Same principle in Skyrim, do what the fuck you want, no one is restricting you. There is no right or wrong way to play Skyrim. And you can mod it too.

PS: People in real life can lead different factions too. For example a general, university or hospital manager, may become prime minister. See? Like real life, faggot.

 

[TemplarGR]

No matter how many times you rate my posts "retadred", you fucking spergs, you can't change the truth. You are not some super-intelligent species who discovered that Skyrim is "badly designed" against the world population who adores it.

You are just a niche cult of butthurt spergs who attack anything good just to feel better about your pathetic selves. I am not angry at you for being what you are (=pathetic), i am just here to laugh at your pathetic attempts to pretend to dislike a masterpiece for codex brownie points.

Vote retadred away, i don't care, that is your only consolation, 35+ million of people, not including pirates, say otherwise.

 

[Caim]

It's funny how you potentially need to cast a more complex spell to enter the college than flame and frost the questline near the end requires you to

In both cases there are scrolls nearby which can be used to complete the objective. You don't actually need to learn a single spell in order to complete Skyrim's mage guild questline.

And can become the masster of literally ALL guilds. Compare to MOrrowind where there are requirements to get ranks on guilds and you need to kill members of opposite factions, so is impossible to compelte fighters guild and thieves guild in the same run or even with gothic 2, where you need to commit with a guild and only become a fire magician near the end of the game...

If you do the quests of the Imperial Cult and attain the highest rank, Primate, they make it a point that you've not become the head of the Imperial Cult because becoming a true member at all you need years upon years of training and prayer to become even a low rank priest. Instead you become a high ranking lay member and instead of becoming a pontiff you return to monke.

 

[Butter]

If you do the quests of the Imperial Cult and attain the highest rank, Primate, they make it a point that you've not become the head of the Imperial Cult because becoming a true member at all you need years upon years of training and prayer to become even a low rank priest. Instead you become a high ranking lay member and instead of becoming a pontiff you return to monke.

The people who made Morrowind wasted a lot of time thinking about things like how to create a cohesive and believable setting. They didn't realize that the secret to a great, nay the greatest CRPG of all time is to provide a junk food power fantasy for larpers.

 

[Cryomancer]

No matter how many times you rate my posts "retadred", you fucking spergs, you can't change the truth. You are not some super-intelligent species who discovered that Skyrim is "badly designed" against the world population who adores it.

The same population which considers Justin Bieber the best musician...

Vote retadred away, i don't care, that is your only consolation, 35+ million of people, not including pirates, say otherwise.

Yep. Everyone who bought skyrim loves it with passion. Nobody purchased and later learned that is a shallow game.

Skyrim as a action game is decent, as a RPG, is awful.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

The people who made Morrowind wasted a lot of time thinking about things like how to create a cohesive and believable setting. They didn't realize that the secret to a great, nay the greatest CRPG of all time is to provide a junk food power fantasy for larpers.

You praise Morrowind just because it's your first elder scrolls game. But I can say that Morrowind is exactly the definition of junk food of early 2000s.
Let's resume Morrowind:
-Open-World
-Real-Time
-First/Third person
-Boring NPCs
-Linear main quest
Aren't all those points the caracteristics of decline for this forum?

The people who made Morrowind wasted a lot of time thinking about things like how to create a cohesive and believable setting.

Just No.
It's weird, incoherent, and un-believable that's the main point people claim why morrowind is good.

 

[Butter]

The people who made Morrowind wasted a lot of time thinking about things like how to create a cohesive and believable setting. They didn't realize that the secret to a great, nay the greatest CRPG of all time is to provide a junk food power fantasy for larpers.

You praise Morrowind just because it's your first elder scrolls game. But I can say that Morrowind is exactly the definition of junk food of early 2000s.

The people who made Morrowind wasted a lot of time thinking about things like how to create a cohesive and believable setting.

Just No.
It's weird, incoherent, and un-believable that's the main point people claim why morrowind is good.

My first Elder Scrolls game was Oblivion. I praise Morrowind because it's a good game.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Codex: Whines about
-First person games
- Boring linear main quest
-Black and white choices
-Static World
-Real-time
-Boring NPCs
-FedEx quests
Also Codex praises: Morrowind which includes all the points above.

 

[Butter]

Codex: Whines about
-First person games
- Boring linear main quest
-Black and white choices
-Static World
-Real-time
-Boring NPCs
-FedEx quests
Also Codex praises: Morrowind which is exactly that.

Yeah note that I didn't praise it for any of those things. People like Morrowind for its atmosphere, exploration, worldbuilding/lore, magic system, itemization, sense of progression from peasant to demigod, and the overall freedom.

 

[Caim]

Codex: Whines about
-First person games
- Boring linear main quest
-Black and white choices
-Static World
-Real-time
-Boring NPCs
-FedEx quests
Also Codex praises: Morrowind which includes all the points above.

FTFY

 

[TemplarGR]

The same population which considers Justin Bieber the best musician...

No one ever said Bieber is the best musician. Not even his most dedicated fangirls ever said it. This is a strawman argument. Most people have said Skyrim is the best RPG though. both users AND professional critics. Even with all the bugs and problems at release Skyrim still got a great metascore.

Yep. Everyone who bought skyrim loves it with passion. Nobody purchased and later learned that is a shallow game.

Yes, there is a reason 9 years later Skyrim is still among the most played single player games.

 

[TemplarGR]

Yeah note that I didn't praise it for any of those things. People like Morrowind for its atmosphere, exploration, worldbuilding/lore, magic system, itemization, sense of progression from peasant to demigod, and the overall freedom.

Oh, for fuck sake, enough with the stupidity... "Atmosphere", what "atmosphere"? Just because you saw a few giant mushrooms, some nice 3d structures and some water shaders? Morrowind's "atmosphere" was mostly about the graphics being great for early-3D times and a nice soundtrack, both of which are far superior in multiple games, including Oblivion and Skyrim, by now.

There is nothing good in Morrowind today. Take away its graphical edge and its music, and it crumbles. Its gameplay is SHIT, it is GARBAGE, no one likes it. Its dialogue system is wikipedia-cringe. Itemization? Please.....

morrowind is overrated by faggots who think "liking old stuff=being smart".

 

[MWaser]

Being an Archmage does not mean being the best mage. Being an Arch General doesn't mean being the best soldier. Being a Prime Minister doesn't mean being the best citizen. Being a hospital director doesn't mean being the best surgeon. And so on and so forth. An Archmage is a managerial position to lead the College of Winterhold, and by completing the quests you definitely prove that you are capable of that.

As for those clowns who demand steeper entrance requirements of entry, what for? I mean, why put arbitrary gameplay restrictions in a single player game? What would that accomplice? "Oh muh immersssoooooon"! Fucking autists. Whenever i play a mage focused character in Skyrim i always learn spells anyway. I am not required to do that, but since i am LARPing a mage, i may play the part. I don't need Todd Howard to restrict me and FORCE ME to beat arbitrary restrictions because some fucking SPERGS on the RPGCodex want to nitpick about irrelevant shit.

The test by Faralda is not an ability test anyway. The College of Winterhold is a school, you are entering it to LEARN MAGIC, not to prove you already know magic. All she needs you to showcase is your affinity to cast any spell at all. Entering the college only means you are a novice entry at the college, and you go on to attend a magic 101 class.

Grow up and stop nitpicking on the best CRPG of all times.

Ignoring the last line, this is amongst the truer things you chose to say here, although I won't bother in detail analysing truth/falsity of every part of this statement.
Just wanted to say it's weird to see you say something that doesn't seem like complete delusional bait.

 

[Caim]

Yes, there is a reason 9 years later Skyrim is still among the most played single player games.

Looking at the statistics, yes it is!

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Now, I don't know if all of these games are mostly played for their multiplayer aspects, but if you look at the ones that are... it might very well be in the top 10. It's certainly one of the oldest, with only Gmod and TF2 being older. Maybe Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition depending on how you count it.

 

[MWaser]

It's funny how you potentially need to cast a more complex spell to enter the college than flame and frost the questline near the end requires you to

In both cases there are scrolls nearby which can be used to complete the objective. You don't actually need to learn a single spell in order to complete Skyrim's mage guild questline.

And can become the masster of literally ALL guilds. Compare to MOrrowind where there are requirements to get ranks on guilds and you need to kill members of opposite factions, so is impossible to compelte fighters guild and thieves guild in the same run or even with gothic 2, where you need to commit with a guild and only become a fire magician near the end of the game...

Incidentally, your example here is not fully correct, even though the general statement is (for not being able to become the master of all guilds) - if you discuss the "morally ambiguous" quests with Percius Mercius in Ald'ruhn's fighter's guild, he will actually give you tips of how to finish quests without alienating the Thieves' Guild, and in fact even tell you to just outright kill the other Fighters Guild leaders because they are just puppets of the local criminal organization Cammona Tong trying to weed out its competition ie. the imperial Thieves' Guild. But there is just extra detail to it.

 

[Cryomancer]

Most people have said Skyrim is the best RPG though. both users AND professional critics.

Most people who only played skyrim???

Yes, there is a reason 9 years later Skyrim is still among the most played single player games.

Actually, Terraria which is far lower budget has far more users.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

TemplarGR you are trying too hard , just wait 20 years just like for Morrowind and Skyrim will be considered among the best here.