So, anyone playing League of Legends?

[Hobo Elf]

In LoL you "deny" enemies by out harassing them and forcing them to flee out of the XP range so they don't get XP or gold. That puts more focus on the enemy player than the NPC's.
There are many team fights in LoL that don't end up in deaths (in the comp scene). Many times you'll see that 1 person dies, or maybe no one. But who cares about the amount of kills of a game? Kills don't win games. Pushing towers does. Winning a team fight certainly makes it easier, but by no means is the only way to go.

 

[Occasionally Fatal]

Ha ha. Let me tell you what is slow paced and passive. Last hitting enemy creeps while denying your own creeps. It's also not fun.

Good post on this subject.

I once watched a game streamed by HotShotGG, who I understand is one of LoL’s top solo players. And while there are no denies in League of Legends, I saw that he played the game highly defensively, focusing on farming and avoiding auto-attacking, only pushing out the wave to return to base and buy items. His advice for viewers was to simply never push out the lane, play defensive and farm, and zone an opponent out when necessary. In other words, he was doing what any HoN player would do, except he lacked the ability to deny. The dilemma here is that the reality of the situation does not match the theoretical intent. Even in League of Legends, gold and items are extremely important; from what I understand, it’s even more important in League of Legends than HoN, but it is generally a more limited resource in HoN due to support classes ignoring farm and the propensity of the game to take out gold from the game via deaths and consumable items. So then we are presented with a dilemma. Does the lack of denies, for the intended reason of encouraging more offensive gameplay, actually do so? What I have yet to see any retail game in the genre do is properly tackle the problem of a stagnant game, and this includes HoN. Unfortunately for both LoL and HoN, both games at their core place a heavy emphasis on farming and gold, and both games are effectively beyond repair when it comes to this problem.

--

if your a HoN palyer then i have bad news for you.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showt ... p?t=285955
They had what they call a catastrophic failour when updating the server.
And from a quick look on the forum it seems like things are all kind of fucked up now.

While it sucks to lose stats and coins, none of this affects gameplay... I imagine this would suck more in LoL, where you would have lost progress to attaining various heroes.

 

[Padre]

In LoL you "deny" enemies by out harassing them and forcing them to flee out of the XP range so they don't get XP or gold. That puts more focus on the enemy player than the NPC's.

Watched some lol streams - it was kinda like Nome described. Since there aren't many cc spells in the game and everybody has flash it promotes a very very passive game. Where you can't really get an upper hand over your opponent by killing them.

There are many team fights in LoL that don't end up in deaths (in the comp scene). Many times you'll see that 1 person dies, or maybe no one. But who cares about the amount of kills of a game? Kills don't win games. Pushing towers does. Winning a team fight certainly makes it easier, but by no means is the only way to go.

In Hon, due to gold loss on death, hero kills are much more important. Take out the carry a few times and he will be a non factor for a good few minutes. Since towers in LoL are so much more powerful, it again promotes passive play because it will be very hard for your mid hero to gank and dive in sidelanes. Again, promotes passive play.

 

[Zed]

okay so I kind of returned to HoN.

played a few games.

the new interface for the shop still kind of sucks
new heroes seems pretty okayish except for the ridiculously overpowered Leoric with aoe damage.

still losing games because people die too much. people need to learn how to be selfish, passive, farming cunts.

 

[CrimsonAngel]

In LoL you "deny" enemies by out harassing them and forcing them to flee out of the XP range so they don't get XP or gold. That puts more focus on the enemy player than the NPC's.

Watched some lol streams - it was kinda like Nome described. Since there aren't many cc spells in the game and everybody has flash it promotes a very very passive game. Where you can't really get an upper hand over your opponent by killing them.

AH yes if you talk out your ass then that is better then fact.
First of all almost EVERY ONE of the LOL heroes have a CC of some kind it is very few that dose not have any.

 

[Markman]

Farming/early game is the lamest or most boring aspect of LoL but depending on the game doesnt mean its a grind fest till you get better items. More then few games have early showndowns, turrets destroyed before 6-7 minute mark and so on. Biggest issue here is guys that farm till they get that Infinity Edge or whatever instead of ganking and pushing. Early mid game is when you can get most progress and push the shit out of enemy team if you got 2-3 level advantage which happens if you start killing them early. Late game is just 5vs5 showdown.

Pushing is what wins games, not farming.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

It's pretty funny. Every time I see some "pro" HoN player bitching about LoL for no real reason (other than to prove his own "superiority" I guess) they pretty much always don't know what they are talking about. For instance:

Since there aren't many cc spells in the game and everybody has flash it promotes a very very passive game

What a load of bullcrap.

First of all almost EVERY ONE of the LOL heroes have a CC of some kind it is very few that dose not have any.

So that's one answered, I would only add that you can also buy some soft CC (slows) and also get it from jungle (lizard buff, also slow). As for flash, dunno about that. I'd rather say that it promotes aggressive play, not having get-out-of-gank-free card would make people hug towers afraid to take any risks, also its not like its on a pretty long cooldown and that you can't use it while you are silenced or stunned, right? People who can't gank someone with flash simply can't gank.

Where you can't really get an upper hand over your opponent by killing them.

Umm not sure if I understand. So you're saying that because of flash ganks are flat out impossible ( ) so you can't gain advantage over enemies by killing them because you can't? Maybe you mean that getting kills is not giving you advantage? Either way ....

In Hon, due to gold loss on death, hero kills are much more important. Take out the carry a few times and he will be a non factor for a good few minutes.

Yes that is pretty nifty mechanic, ability to shut down fed players hard. However it also promotes snowballing so dunno about it. I really don't miss it, good dose of CC is enough to shut down carry. In LoL "taking him out few times" also works, you put him out of game giving you time to catch up (why do I have to explain that???). Another thing, keep in mind that carries in LoL aren't as extreme, you can't 1 vs 5 period.

Since towers in LoL are so much more powerful, it again promotes passive play because it will be very hard for your mid hero to gank and dive in sidelanes. Again, promotes passive play.

No, it's not hard at all if you know what you are doing. I'd rather say that if towers were weaker ganking and well towerdiving (oh guess what, flash is best tool for towerdiving, passive play at its best, amirite?) would be too easy, one kill could snowball whole game into quick win because mid laner would just go where he pleases and kill everyone getting more and more fed in the process. Snowballing is bad mechanic because while it may promote aggressive play CoD crowd loves (ok ok, low shot) it doesn't make for interesting gameplay, only few first kills matter because after that stat wise you have so much advantage even monkey could win easily and that's why gold loss is in HoN and not in LoL, there simply is no need. Have you watched season 1 finals? There was a lot of close games going back and forth, only few games were one sided steamroll through map. It certainly is more interesting to watch and play than game where after early game one side is reduced to spectators. I'm not saying that HoN is like this, because I never played it and I won't be basing my opinions on hearsay, I'm just pointing out that you complain about mechanics without taking whole picture into consideration. Say what you want but dotalikes are decently complicated games and one change can break something else in the system easily, for instance if you removed gold loss from HoN carries would be stupidly op because of how well they scale into late game with no way to shut them down for good, see what I'm talking about? To sum it up, if towers were weaker it would be too easy to snowball, to prevent that Riot would have to put some mechanics in game to limit that (gold loss for instance though in a way it also promotes snowballing ...) so basically you are complaining that LoL isn't HoN ...

 

[Hobo Elf]

Farming/early game is the lamest or most boring aspect of LoL but depending on the game doesnt mean its a grind fest till you get better items. More then few games have early showndowns, turrets destroyed before 6-7 minute mark and so on. Biggest issue here is guys that farm till they get that Infinity Edge or whatever instead of ganking and pushing. Early mid game is when you can get most progress and push the shit out of enemy team if you got 2-3 level advantage which happens if you start killing them early. Late game is just 5vs5 showdown.

Pushing is what wins games, not farming.

Basically this. I can't even count the times I've lost games even though we own 3:1 in kills, or won games where we've gotten our shit slapped hard in team fights only because either we didn't push when we had the chance or the enemy didn't. Winning team fights and then instantly teleporting back to base to buy more loot with the new golds is what causes you to lose games. Seriously, don't do this.

 

[Padre]

So that's one answered, I would only add that you can also buy some soft CC (slows) and also get it from jungle (lizard buff, also slow). As for flash, dunno about that. I'd rather say that it promotes aggressive play, not having get-out-of-gank-free card would make people hug towers afraid to take any risks, also its not like its on a pretty long cooldown and that you can't use it while you are silenced or stunned, right? People who can't gank someone with flash simply can't gank.

Should have been more clear. I was talking about hard cc. Stuns, hexes, mini. Slows and silences are not hard cc.

Also I think you are wrong about the assumption that flash promotes aggressive play. A lone ganker in lol can't really kill a sidelaner in a matter of 2-3 secs so he will need a buddy for this. But if the person who is to get ganked has flash, he will get away easily. Ganker and his buddy also have flash but it would require to use 2 flashes against 1 to get a kill and afaik it has a pretty long cooldown. Also hard cc in lol doesn't last that long as in HoN so it's much easier to use that flash to get away.

It's pretty funny. Every time I see some "pro" HoN player bitching about LoL for no real reason (other than to prove his own "superiority" I guess) they pretty much always don't know what they are talking about. For instance:

Never stated I was a pro, I'm merely 1750 mmr so that's a little above average. Unlike you though, I played both of them. Prefer HoN, that's kinda obvious, was just trying to tell you why. Don't know why you take it so personally.

Yes that is pretty nifty mechanic, ability to shut down fed players hard. However it also promotes snowballing so dunno about it. I really don't miss it, good dose of CC is enough to shut down carry. In LoL "taking him out few times" also works, you put him out of game giving you time to catch up (why do I have to explain that???). Another thing, keep in mind that carries in LoL aren't as extreme, you can't 1 vs 5 period.

Well you can't 1vs5 in HoN either, it's just a rumor I see Lolers spreading around. But let's say it would be true, would it be such a bad thing ? That one guy was playing so damn well and outplayed your whole team? Don't really have an answer to that but I think S2 doesn't like the hard carry route and wants a more gank oriented game (which I like, never liked playing a SP game ricing for 30 minutes)

About snowballing (funny how you mention CoD because in our games if you kill the guy who is on a streak you get much more gold for him and he doesn't really get a benefit from this streak so I would say it's the total opposite of CoD) I think it's a good mechanic. Since the removal of 0:00 rune, I think I never saw a one kill-change all situation. Again, since you haven't played the game, you wouldn't know. And some mechanics cannot be explained or checked until you see them in practice. Lack of flash in HoN or weaker towers didn't cause the players to hug towers and play passively. On the contrary.

Another thing you are wrong about - no gold loss on death in HoN exists. It's called casual mode. The xp and gold gains for hero kills is also increased. What this promotes? Carry oriented meta? No. A very heavy ganking game where heroes with a lot of burst are preferred. Team who has a carry who will be useful in 30 minutes of creep killing is basically doing a 4vs5 and getting raped while the other team gets so much gold and items they will crush the carry. Since I tried this mode with my friends I was baffled how funny this was to actually see a roaming Andro with Magmus in 1500 casual game just because even they know that it's the kills that count in this mode.

Once again, don't take this as a personal attack on your beloved game, just pointing out the differences that I think make lol a duller experience overall. Just my opinion.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Should have been more clear. I was talking about hard cc. Stuns, hexes, mini. Slows and silences are not hard cc.

Well yes silence is not hard CC but it does stop people from flashing away which was the point I guess? Anyway it's not like stuns are such rarity, it all depends on your team composition, if you chose champions with soft to no cc, well your own fault really.

Also I think you are wrong about the assumption that flash promotes aggressive play. A lone ganker in lol can't really kill a sidelaner in a matter of 2-3 secs so he will need a buddy for this. But if the person who is to get ganked has flash, he will get away easily. Ganker and his buddy also have flash but it would require to use 2 flashes against 1 to get a kill and afaik it has a pretty long cooldown. Also hard cc in lol doesn't last that long as in HoN so it's much easier to use that flash to get away.

Ding, ding, we have a winner, LoL is a team game (not that HoN or any dotalikes aren't for that matter), CC doesn't last very long so you have to chain it, to gank effectively you need teamwork, just strolling into lane and hoping to get double kill will get you no where, that's why I said you need to know what you are doing. Oh and there are champions who can gank by themselves quite well. It all also depends on how fed you are.

Never stated I was a pro, I'm merely 1750 mmr so that's a little above average. Unlike you though, I played both of them. Prefer HoN, that's kinda obvious, was just trying to tell you why. Don't know why you take it so personally.

I never said that too. I was just poking fun at your usual "elite" HoN gamer that just knows his game is better and by extension it makes him win at life or some other nonsense. As for taking it personally ... . It's rpgcodex isn't it?

Well you can't 1vs5 in HoN either, it's just a rumor I see Lolers spreading around. But let's say it would be true, would it be such a bad thing ? That one guy was playing so damn well and outplayed your whole team? Don't really have an answer to that but I think S2 doesn't like the hard carry route and wants a more gank oriented game (which I like, never liked playing a SP game ricing for 30 minutes)

Hmm well I believe you, as I said I never played HoN and I don't treat youtube videos as solid proof of anything, it could have been set up for all I know. Come to think of it if you played against total retards that just sit around and do nothing it would be possible in LoL too.

About snowballing (funny how you mention CoD because in our games if you kill the guy who is on a streak you get much more gold for him and he doesn't really get a benefit from this streak so I would say it's the total opposite of CoD) I think it's a good mechanic. Since the removal of 0:00 rune, I think I never saw a one kill-change all situation. Again, since you haven't played the game, you wouldn't know. And some mechanics cannot be explained or checked until you see them in practice. Lack of flash in HoN or weaker towers didn't cause the players to hug towers and play passively. On the contrary.

Yeah its funny that I mention Cod because it was nothing more than a bad joke, I never played it (not counting earlier games in sp) so I wouldn't know about it's mechanics. As for one kill change, I meant that it all starts with single kill and at this point you already have advantage which get's easier and easier to widen. What I'm saying is that in situation where one of mid laners is winning hard, farming a lot of kills (which already is very bad) making ganks easy as pie would simply mean game is already over at this point and next 15 minutes are just waste of your time because he can move onto sidelanes and kill everyone just like that snowballing even more. Why do other players have to be punished so hard for someone else's mistakes? Oh and were getting to important point. I'm not discussing HoN here (wtf is 0:00 rune?), because yeah I don't know anything about it and its LoL thread. I'm just saying that these amazing HoN mechanics simply wouldn't fit too well into LoL. That's why I said that you are complaining that LoL isn't HoN.

Another thing you are wrong about - no gold loss on death in HoN exists. It's called casual mode. The xp and gold gains for hero kills is also increased. What this promotes? Carry oriented meta? No. A very heavy ganking game where heroes with a lot of burst are preferred. Team who has a carry who will be useful in 30 minutes of creep killing is basically doing a 4vs5 and getting raped while the other team gets so much gold and items they will crush the carry. Since I tried this mode with my friends I was baffled how funny this was to actually see a roaming Andro with Magmus in 1500 casual game just because even they know that it's the kills that count in this mode.

Ok it does but then I stated that I don't know much about HoN so I don't understand why are you thinking that I'm discussing HoN mechanics here, well I guess it's my fault that I didn't say generic dotalike with carries scaling amazingly well into late game. That was just your average straight-outta-my-ass example.

Once again, don't take this as a personal attack on your beloved game, just pointing out the differences that I think make lol a duller experience overall. Just my opinion.

My what? So anyone arguing with you is rabid lol fanboy now? Honestly, its fun game to play for an hour or 2 but otherwise it's just a time killer.

 

[DakaSha]

started playing this and i think i actually like it for some weird reason. i suck major ass though

 

[Ulminati]

Everyone does at first.

For a new player, the most important lessons you can lean are these:

1: Don't die. If you die often, your enemies will get stronger and you will lose
2: Understand tower aggro. Towers will attack your minions first if they're in range but switch target to you if you damage an enemy champion.
3: Get the last hit in on the enemy minions for gold. Don't just autoattack them - wait until they're 1 hit away from death, then kill them. This way, the minions won't get pushed away from your turret, and you won't have to run as far to get to safety.
4: The game is not won by kills. The game is won by destroying towers and blowing up the enemy nexus. Always be on th elookout for a chance to take out an enemy tower. (Such as 2-3 of them being dead and you having minions near it)
5: Wards are your friends. Here's a nice map of where to consider placing them from my Morgana guide.

6: Save your IP! As a new player, stick to the 10 free champions on rotation and figure out which ones you like before buying. Once you hit level 21 (and not before!) you're going to want as much IP as you can scrape together to start buying tier 3 runes.
7: Learn from others. http://leaguecraft.com has a ton on guide on how to play various champions well. http://solomid.net has a list of livestreams of good players playing the game.

 

[DakaSha]

yeah i get the basics. Im just bad at twitchy shit because i tend to play TBS. im getting better though.. slowly
Ive found my love in Katrina for the moment

 

[DakaSha]

btw i have the same nick as here. anybody that wants me to call them a fag not only here but also in game can add me (just tell me wtf u are)

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Demigod was more fun.

 

[Markman]

Whats with the fucking login queues?
This is bullshit. Played 2 games yesterday after 1 month vacation and it took me 15 minutes to get in at 23.30 and when the game loaded we were on a US server. Are you kidding me?!
Just wanted to check some runes in the shop now and was greeted with 12 minute queue time.

And how about that Yorick? Dont really know what to think about him. Confusing champ

 

[Mystary!]

Yeah it's ridicilous, every other hour the server status goes "busy" too.

Seen Yorick in about 20 matches sofar, he's been on the losing side every time. Could be people don't know how to build him yet but compared to other new heroes I've seen (Vayne & Rumble) people have been able to dominate right from the get go so... Maybe he's just difficult to master.

I'm playing atleast a match a day now after some downtime. Current favourite champs are Jarvan, Kennen, Renekton and Lux. In that order.

 

[Markman]

13 min queue now, gonna try my Galio mega-tank build.
Start heavy and build on magpen and cdr. Q-bombing everywhere.

Got 5 RP left, aint thinking of filling up till they fix the fucking servers. This queue bulshit is stupid.

 

[Phage]

Bros which of you are on the US server?

Also, Corki is awesome.

 

[Mystary!]

Ive got a low level us account I play when eu servers are down, same name as here.

 

[kingcomrade]

The reason I just can't play Dota or Hon any more is because of how frustrating it is when you lose. Most of the time it is due to one or two total dipshits on your team who have no idea what they're doing.

I play play Quake or Starcraft or whatever and lose and still have fun, but not Dota or Hon. If you are on the losing team there's normally a zero chance of a comeback and you can't leave. We are going to farm you for stats and fountain camp, don't leave or you're banned forever.

And typically in HoN if you call forfeit it's the worst player on your team who wants to stay. It's just so rarely any fun.

edit- you also can't pick heroes you like. if you are playing in a public game, you have to pick a semicarry like mirana or slardar or whatever. you can't play shadow priest, even if that is your favorite hero. you can't play sand king if you aren't sure of how competent your team is, even if you absolutely love him.

 

[Phage]

I feel your pain, Manstructiclops. That's why I've been gathering a lot of fellow players from real life and on the internet so I'll have less randoms in games.

 

[kingcomrade]

I'm downloading League of Legends to try it out. Do they have a replay system? I know Dota heroes and builds like the back of my hand but know nothing about Lol.

 

[Phage]

LoL only has a third party system for replays... kind of shitty I know. Riot claims they are working on that and spectator support. Frankly they need to get this shit out before the DotA2 hype train arrives.

http://www.mobafire.com/ is pretty much the central place for guides for new players. Obviously someone playing ranked games can make their own judgment calls on builds.

I'd be up for playing some games with you if you're on the US server, and if more people post in my LoL database thread, maybe we could get a Team Codex going on.

 

[kingcomrade]

Jeez, 20 bucks is only enough for buy about 6 heroes? Out of like 50?

Anyways yeah I'm kingcomrade on US