Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[DragoFireheart]

Got to give Bioware credit, at least they actually do the epic stuff in their games.

 

[DalekFlay]

Actually in this case, bigger == worse, since it's just more of the same. Morrowind had a lot of small dungeons with interesting design plus (quite) a few large dungeons that rewarded full exploration. Morrowind also had a bit more static loot, so there was actually some reason to explore those out of the way dungeons, as opposed to the boring repetitive levelled loot that Oblivion provides (not that MW didn't also have levelled loot).

Yeah, not to open the whole debate again but I don't get why people are saying all of Morrowind's dungeons were small. A ton of them are fucking HUGE. I did a Sixth House base the other day that was literally like 5 different sections, each one long and twisty, and you come out an entirely different part of the island than where you went in. It's insane.

Yes there were four room tombs. There were also massive dungeons. The game had both, which was a good thing.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I miss Morrowind's hand-placed loot.

 

[Lemming42]

Todd's shellshocked wife being stolen by Patrick Stewart as Todd grins through the pain.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Which brings me back to an older question: What the fuck happened with Bethesda between Morrowind and Oblivion? Did a devastating and yet strangely specific plague wipe out all the imaginative and competent writers they had on staff or was Oblivion, FO3 and Skyrim written by focus group consensus?

http://www.nma-fallout.com/showthread.php?175874-Don-t-Buy-the-Hype

In a nutshell

I just read this.

How depressing.

Todd's shellshocked wife being stolen by Patrick Stewart as Todd grins through the pain.

Todd looks like a fucking man-child compared to Patrick. Sure explains a lot of things.

 

[Lemming42]

About 5 mins in. Todd giving motivational speech to his team about his meeting with Patrick Stewart.

 

[Wlerin]

Actually in this case, bigger == worse, since it's just more of the same. Morrowind had a lot of small dungeons with interesting design plus (quite) a few large dungeons that rewarded full exploration. Morrowind also had a bit more static loot, so there was actually some reason to explore those out of the way dungeons, as opposed to the boring repetitive levelled loot that Oblivion provides (not that MW didn't also have levelled loot).

Yeah, not to open the whole debate again but I don't get why people are saying all of Morrowind's dungeons were small. A ton of them are fucking HUGE. I did a Sixth House base the other day that was literally like 5 different sections, each one long and twisty, and you come out an entirely different part of the island than where you went in. It's insane.

Yes there were four room tombs. There were also massive dungeons. The game had both, which was a good thing.

I believe the argument was, on average, Morrowind had smaller dungeons (because averages are always an important and relevant statistic). I'm not 100% sure on that, since neither of the links he provided as evidence are actually about dungeons, and the Oblivion one is broken to the point of being unreadable. In fact his links, on the surface, would seem to suggest that Oblivion had four dungeon types... while Morrowind had uh, let's see...

Ancestral Tombs
Caves
Daedric Shrines
Dunmer Strongholds
Dwemer Ruins
Grottos
Mines
Ships
Velothi Towers

9. Also the different architectures (Imperial, Telvanni, Redoran, Hlaalu, Ashlander) for more civilized "dungeons".

I'll just assume the lack in Oblivion is due to the page being broken and not that Oblivion only had Ayleid Ruins, Caves, Forts, and Mines. (P. sure I recall others but it's been a long while.)

 

[Delterius]

He just called me. He's spent an entire in-game day at the bottom of the well during the Cheydinhal recommendation, where you have to grab the "Ring of Waterbreathing" (actually a Ring of Burden) off a dead student's body and show it to the guildmaster so you can prove the teacher handling the recommendations is a sicko. But since he is playing as an argonian, he didn't need to get out of the water to breathe so he didn't get the quest update and thought he was supposed to stay there until something happened.

C&C.

Got to give Bioware credit, at least they actually do the epic stuff in their games.

:D

...either SI was non-canon (and Sheo is just rambling for fanservice) or Oblivion's PC eventually convinced himself he was Sheogorath all along.

Would you be surprised if becoming the daedric prince of madness turned you mad?

 

[Carrion]

Yes there were four room tombs. There were also massive dungeons. The game had both, which was a good thing.

Yeah. Many of the caves and tombs weren't even dungeons per se. A Dwemer ruin might be just a forge or a workshop not unlike those that you find in cities, except that the inhabitants are nowhere to be found. A cave might be just the refuge of a sorcerer who just wants to be left alone, or the hideout of a bunch of bandits. Inside the caves, forts and ruins you'll find bedrooms, storage areas, alchemy labs, the personal libraries of mages, and so on. The "dungeons" are often just parts of the game world that happen to be underground, nothing more than that. On the other hand Oblivion bandits apparently want to spend their time sitting in large, wet, pitch-black cave complexes that seem unfit for anyone more civilized than a sewer rat.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Why are we debating Morrowind and Oblivion?

It's simple: Morrowind is a great classic and Oblivion is for retards and young children.

 

[Turjan]

Well, about that...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sheogorath

While nothing can be stated with certainty, these comments, coupled with his remark that the Mad God is a title that is "passed down from me to myself every few thousand years", suggests that he is in fact the Champion of Cyrodiil who replaced the previous Madgod.

...either SI was non-canon (and Sheo is just rambling for fanservice) or Oblivion's PC eventually convinced himself he was Sheogorath all along.

Actually, my remark was not regarding the point that the CoC became Sheogorath (which seems pretty obvious, as derp as it was), but the point that Sheogorath gets replaced by himself, to phrase this slightly differently. Which gives a slightly different spin on the whole thing. The player as schizophrenic Sheo all along. I assumed you referred to that.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Oh.

Yeah, Sheo creating a second facet of himself to defeat him and free himself from the curse (because everyone else is either uninterested in defeating Jyggalag or too weak to do so) would be cool...cool enough that it would also probably be giving them too much credit.

Would you be surprised if becoming the daedric prince of madness turned you mad?

You'd probably have to be mad to begin with...for once, the PC's murderhobo behavior would be justified.

-

Nephew is playing FO3 as well. He loves Skyrim and New Vegas so he wanted to play the "prequels".

"I blew up that first town and got the house in the tower. Where do I go now?"

"Your only clue was in that town, so you'll have to find clues somewhere else"

"So I just walk until I find another town?"

"Well, yeah"

Let's see if he accidentally tumbles on Galaxy News Radio or Rivet City.

 

[AW8]

A lot of them were not obviously Daedric quests from the start though, which I liked. Some dude asks you for help with zombies in his tomb and then suddenly everything spins off into a weird cannibalism story with a Daedric lord involved. That happened numerous times for me.

You agree to help some dude investigate something, and then you check your journal and see the

in the quest banner. Hmm, I wonder, could I be moments away from speaking to a Prince of Oblivion?

No but seriously, definitely better integrated than in Oblivion (what isn't?). Many seem completely innocent at first, and before long you are dealing with cultists. And having shrines spread evenly across the lands like Pokemon Gyms was just silly. Better to only have some shrines, all hidden in the mountains.

 

[kenup]

Speaking of dungeons, does anyone think they kind of screwed the atmosphere of the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim? In Morrowind they were like abandoned ruins, few enemies, dusty and all around old and mysterious. In Skyrim they are full of enemies, a ton of active defences that one should only probably see in sci-fi military bases( where the fuck are the cities? those dungeons are full of floor traps) and while there is the occasional rubble or broken pipe, they are too damn clean. You'd think the Falmer just bought them from the Dwemer and are renovating them.

Let's see if he accidentally tumbles on Galaxy News Radio or Rivet City.

Hopefully he'll accidentally kill Three Dog as well.

 

[DalekFlay]

Speaking of dungeons, does anyone think they kind of screwed the atmosphere of the Dwemer ruins in Skyrim? In Morrowind they were like abandoned ruins, few enemies, dusty and all around old and mysterious. In Skyrim they are full of enemies, a ton of active defences that one should only probably see in sci-fi military bases( where the fuck are the cities? those dungeons are full of floor traps) and while there is the occasional rubble or broken pipe, they are too damn clean. You'd think the Falmer just bought them from the Dwemer and are renovating them.

Yeah, I remember thinking they were too clean. I guess you could lore that up and say the Dwemer were such geniuses they had auto-cleaners.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Apart from dust (which you can't see in the game) they probably wouldn't get too dirty, everything is made of metal. Dwemer metal probably doesn't get rusty, either. The problem is that they're too well-illuminated. You'd think the falmer would try to block the lights and make them pitch-black since they are blind already.

A more important question is why the people don't move into those ruins if they are scared of an incoming dragon invasion. Markath's jarl is all "eh, I don't care about dragons, my city is made of stoen, they can't burn it down".

 

[Commissar Draco]

Because of Dwarven Automata, Spiders and Falmers besides? They do rape low lewel characters in Requiem which reflects real Tamariel difficulty well. But yes some of their ''ruins'' would make far more better cities/forts/Refugia from Dragons and war than open wooden villages Nords live.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Apart from the gigantic dwarven centurions and the more elite falmer ninjas, the guards could probably take care of the stuff inside if they were desperate enough to go in (running away from dragons is an example of a desperate situation). There's an ingame book that mentions how an expedition group defeated one of the huge robots once they realized its weak point was shock spells, even.

 

[Spectacle]

If the dragon situation were to get worse I'm sure the people of Skyrim would consider hiding in dungeons, dwemer and otherwise, but in the game it seems the city guards can handle the occasion dragon raid without too much trouble.

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

 

[Eyeball]

So you're saying that the people of Skyrim, in the event of a cataclysmic war destroying their land, might take to hiding in fortified underground VAULTS for generations until it's deemed safe to come out?

My god....it's all so clear now. Bethesda's master plan...those bastards!

Stay tuned for Skyrim: New Whiterun, coming 2017!

 

[AW8]

and while there is the occasional rubble or broken pipe, they are too damn clean. You'd think the Falmer just bought them from the Dwemer and are renovating them.

Remember that Falmer are never(?) found in the actual ruins, but in the caves below or around them. They live in dirty caves. The Dwemer ruins however, are filled with still-functional animunculi that keep the place tidy. You can see Dwarven Spiders working on rocks and rubble in several areas. Think of them as advanced robotic vacuum cleaners, still working the floors 3750 years after their creators' demise.

 

[Eyeball]

You can find falmer in the actual dwemer ruins on several occasions, but they're openly fighting against the automatons. The most obvious example of this is during the last Thieves Guild quest, where you can awaken a giant centurion which will make short work of the roomful of falmer it's standing in.

 

[Cadmus]

About 5 mins in. Todd giving motivational speech to his team about his meeting with Patrick Stewart.

Shit, this was painful to watch. I've never seen Todd Howard in a video, only those photos of him where he looks like a complete man-child idiot and the video confirms it. The atmosphere was also unsettling, it reminded me of the behind the scenes footage from RLM's SW review.

"OH GOD WE WROTE SUCH CORNY LINES BUT HE MAKES THEM SOUND NOT SO RETARDED, HII HIII"
why don't they fucking rewrite them then?

 

[DalekFlay]

'Cause writing wasn't their priority at the time.

 

[kenup]

Remember that Falmer are never(?) found in the actual ruins, but in the caves below or around them. They live in dirty caves. The Dwemer ruins however, are filled with still-functional animunculi that keep the place tidy. You can see Dwarven Spiders working on rocks and rubble in several areas. Think of them as advanced robotic vacuum cleaners, still working the floors 3750 years after their creators' demise.

Yet the place is falling apart but it's almost perfectly clean("Ajax! Every working Spider's need, but don't dare fix those pipes"). My point isn't on whether the Dwarven Spiders can clean the ruins, it's just that in Morrowind Dwarven ruins looked like abandoned ruins. And remember that I also said that they are way too crowded with defences, automatons etc( again compared to Morrowind). It's more a point of inconsistency and ruining of atmosphere( IMO) compared to Morrowind, rather than whether there can be a logical explanation. This is more of a personal nit pick of mine though. It's not like I would care about it, if I wasn't royally bored while traversing the ruins and annoyed that the game offers little else than combat.