Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Lemming42]

Sometimes I forget that TES' lore often has nothing to do with the damn games.

That's always been one of my biggest issues with TES games. Feels like a painful waste of excellent material when little/none of it shows up in any real form in the game.

Well, Boxcars in Nipton found the cure to being paralyzed from the waist down in the adrenaline when his life is in danger. I think it was fixed later tho.

Yeah, I think he has crippled legs which you can see if you target him in V.A.T.S. He still limps after you though.

 

[DalekFlay]

nephew: "So this Oblivion plane is basically hell, right?" *ruffles through a burnt corpse*

Me: "Yes, but there are some Oblivion planes that don't look like hell"

him: "A hell that doesn't look like hell?" *raises eyebrow*

me: "No, I mean, this plane looks like hell because the boss is a bad guy. Other planes look nicer, even though they are also called Oblivion planes"

him: "Nice. Can I enter these places?"

me: "...No. All the planes in the game look like hell."

him: "Oh." *laughs*


Sometimes I forget that TES' lore often has nothing to do with the damn games.

Funny shit.

Though now we've seen Sheogorath and Hermeus Mora's realms as well. And I guess Molag Bal's is in TESO.

 

[circ]

I guess you saw part of Nocturnal's in TESV too?

 

[Turjan]

Funny shit.

Though now we've seen Sheogorath and Hermeus Mora's realms as well. And I guess Molag Bal's is in TESO.

They also showed Boethiah's in some sidequest; which was also boring.

I hope they don't show us any Oblivion realms anymore, because everything sounds cool before it shows up in a game.

 

[Xbalanque]

Funny shit.

Though now we've seen Sheogorath and Hermeus Mora's realms as well. And I guess Molag Bal's is in TESO.

They also showed Boethiah's in some sidequest; which was also boring.

I hope they don't show us any Oblivion realms anymore, because everything sounds cool before it shows up in a game.

Maybe some day the'll improve (in other words start reading lore before actually designing an area, vide Imperial City). I was extremely disappointed with Sheogorath, I couldn't find a tiny bit of madness in it.

 

[Eyeball]

The inclusion of some of the Deadric quests was some of the better writing in Skyrim, IMO.

A drinking contest with a stranger with oddly red eyes. A quest to find a stray dog. An investigation into cannibalism in a local crypt. A mysterious abandoned house in the middle of a city. A town plagued by horrible nightmares of doom and death. Advancing through the ranks of the thieves guild. All fairly unrelated activities that nevertheless brought you into contact with the most powerful and evil beings in the TES universe and enabled you to gain their favour and powerful artifacts. This included the TES-staple Daedric quests into the Skyrim storyline in a far more fluent manner than earlier games and it was always a pleasant surprise to stumble upon one of them in my earlier playthoughs.

Compare this with Oblivion's "find hugeass statue of Daedric lord in the woods, talk to it" introduction of Daedric quests. Total fucking bullshit, man.

 

[Zewp]

That's always been one of my biggest issues with TES games. Feels like a painful waste of excellent material when little/none of it shows up in any real form in the game.

I want to agree with this, but then I also very strongly agree with this:

I hope they don't show us any Oblivion realms anymore, because everything sounds cool before it shows up in a game.

Bethesda just doesn't have it in them to do their own lore justice.

 

[Turjan]

I was just in Riften. Wasn't that the place where Barenziah had her memorable Khajiit encounter? Now it's Bravil #2. You speak with the Huskarl about the Thieves Guild, they know where they are and what to do. "If I only had 12 men, we could eleminate them". You don't get 12 men in this place. Pathetic.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Remember how things ended in Morrowind? The Blades pull out and return to the Imperial City. The Emperor's sons are being assassinated. The entire Empire is on the brink of collapse. The next game could have had a great story set amidst that turmoil.

Then we got Oblivion.

That is basically all you need to know about Bethesda's attitude to Elder Scrolls. They almost got back control with Skyrim, with the civil war and the Aldmeri Dominion, and things looked like they could get interesting - but nothing actually happened.

Got to give Bioware credit, at least they actually do the epic stuff in their games.

 

[DalekFlay]

They also showed Boethiah's in some sidequest; which was also boring.

I hope they don't show us any Oblivion realms anymore, because everything sounds cool before it shows up in a game.

I thought Hermeus Mora's realm was very well done. Shivering Isles was probably the highlight of Oblvion too, I thought they did it decently.

The ones they really fuck up are the little side quest ones they don't make a showpiece. I'm guessing the Boethia one you're talking about is the realm he sends you to for the contest in Oblivion, but that was obviously just Mehrunes Dagon's realm. They were careful with the wording if I recall correctly, "I will send you to A realm of Oblivion" rather than "MY realm of Oblivion." You briefly go to Sanguine's realm in Skyrim but it's all in shadow and very limited, and I think he's the one with multiple realms anyway.

So I really think we've only seen the three. Four now, if you count TESO.

 

[Turjan]

I was extremely disappointed with Sheogorath, I couldn't find a tiny bit of madness in it.

Yeah. I'm pretty much torn on this. On one hand, it was one of the better parts of Oblivion. On the other hand, they basically threw one of the coolest Daedric Lords out of the window for stroking the player ego (you're a god now!). And as nice as it was for Oblivion, it was banal shit boring for a Daedric realm. From the realm of madness it went to the realm of mildly eccentric inhabitants.

 

[Lemming42]

On the subject of Oblivion planes, how many were in Battlespire? I never finished Battlespire and didn't get very far with it, but from what I can tell you get to visit at least Dagon's realm.

 

[Sceptic]

On the subject of Oblivion planes, how many were in Battlespire? I never finished Battlespire and didn't get very far with it, but from what I can tell you get to visit at least Dagon's realm.

Off the top of my head, you get to see parts of Nocturnal, Hircine, and Dagon's. Key word being "part", especially Nocturnal's makes it pretty clear that you're in only one tiny section of the realm and the others don't have to look the same. Neither Nocturnal's or Hircine's looked anything like Dagon's (or like each other). Dagon's did have the whole fiery lava thing to it, but that's kinda the point of Dagon.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yeah. I'm pretty much torn on this. On one hand, it was one of the better parts of Oblivion. On the other hand, they basically threw one of the coolest Daedric Lords out of the window for stroking the player ego (you're a god now.

Well, about that...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sheogorath

In his conversation with Pelagius, Sheogorath recounts some of the events in Oblivion, rattling off a list of seemingly unrelated objects: butterflies, blood, a Fox, a severed head, and cheese. These likely reference the beginning of Shivering Isles, the Blood of the Daedra/Divines main quest, the Gray Fox of the Cyrodiil Thieves Guild and the severed head of Mathieu Bellamont's mother. The cheese may be in reference to Sheogorath's Daedric Shrine quest in Border Watch. While nothing can be stated with certainty, these comments, coupled with his remark that the Mad God is a title that is "passed down from me to myself every few thousand years", suggests that he is in fact the Champion of Cyrodiil who replaced the previous Madgod.

...either SI was non-canon (and Sheo is just rambling for fanservice) or Oblivion's PC eventually convinced himself he was Sheogorath all along.

 

[Todd_the_Liar]

The best way to look at this is to look at ESO. ESO was squarely aimed at the newfags and dumbcunts who jizz over Skyrim and say dumb shit like BEST GAME EVAAAA!!! They hang around in gay ass forums not talking about how upfront + subscription + microtransactions is a ripoff but brag about how many and what color horses they bought. Yes the abomination called ESO is purely a momentum money grab aimed at dumbcunts who think Skyrim is the shit... because if handholding dumbed down condescending 'you're the chosen one' banal crap worked in Skyrim it's gotta work with ESO right?

 

[Turjan]

Todd_the_Liar


So... was this a lie now?

 

[Turjan]

...either SI was non-canon (and Sheo is just rambling for fanservice) or Oblivion's PC eventually convinced himself he was Sheogorath all along.

I cannot help and think you give them too much credit. On the other hand, Jyggalag is out, I guess...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The dialogue heavily implies that this is what happened (leaving some leeway as typical of TES, as he could be the original Sheogorath making shit up for lulz)

Besides, Oblivion's PC absorbing Sheo's personality traits until s/he becomes him for all intents and purposes would actually be the simplest way to solve the problem with Sheo appearing on future TES games. Pretending SI didn't happen would require an explanation, having NewSheo just happening to act like OldSheo is easier.

 

[Carrion]

The inclusion of some of the Deadric quests was some of the better writing in Skyrim, IMO.

A drinking contest with a stranger with oddly red eyes. A quest to find a stray dog. An investigation into cannibalism in a local crypt. A mysterious abandoned house in the middle of a city. A town plagued by horrible nightmares of doom and death. Advancing through the ranks of the thieves guild. All fairly unrelated activities that nevertheless brought you into contact with the most powerful and evil beings in the TES universe and enabled you to gain their favour and powerful artifacts. This included the TES-staple Daedric quests into the Skyrim storyline in a far more fluent manner than earlier games and it was always a pleasant surprise to stumble upon one of them in my earlier playthoughs.

Compare this with Oblivion's "find hugeass statue of Daedric lord in the woods, talk to it" introduction of Daedric quests. Total fucking bullshit, man.

On the other hand it kind of sucks that you don't have to explore to find those quests. You can't even enter a city without getting Daedric quests thrown at your face, even if you're some low-level nobody. It really eats away a sense of mystery about the game world when the content tries to find you rather than the other way around. In Morrowind it's possible to spend a few dozen hours on the game or even finish it without realizing that Daedric quests exist, and that makes it all the more exciting when you finally discover a shrine on the farthest corner of the map or at the bottom of the sea.

(Then again, Daedric quests are kind of a given at this point, so I guess it'd take some tremendous effort to make them seem mysterious again.)

 

[DalekFlay]

The dialogue heavily implies that this is what happened (leaving some leeway as typical of TES, as he could be the original Sheogorath making shit up for lulz)

Besides, Oblivion's PC absorbing Sheo's personality traits until s/he becomes him for all intents and purposes would actually be the simplest way to solve the problem with Sheo appearing on future TES games. Pretending SI didn't happen would require an explanation, having NewSheo just happening to act like OldSheo is easier.

I definitely took it as the Oblivion PC becoming the new Sheogorath. In fact I thought they said that straight-up in Shivering Isles, without any real mystery, to the point going to the Sheogorath shrine after finishing Shivering Isles had the butler dude show up and mock you for talking to yourself. The Skyrim dialog just reaffirms the whole thing.

Also: Did we see Hircine's realm in Bloodmoon, or did Hircine just come to Tamriel? I forget.

 

[DalekFlay]

On the other hand it kind of sucks that you don't have to explore to find those quests. You can't even enter a city without getting Daedric quests thrown at your face, even if you're some low-level nobody. It really eats away a sense of mystery about the game world when the content tries to find you rather than the other way around. In Morrowind it's possible to spend a few dozen hours on the game or even finish it without realizing that Daedric quests exist, and that makes it all the more exciting when you finally discover a shrine on the farthest corner of the map or at the bottom of the sea.

(Then again, Daedric quests are kind of a given at this point, so I guess it'd take some tremendous effort to make them seem mysterious again.)

A lot of them were not obviously Daedric quests from the start though, which I liked. Some dude asks you for help with zombies in his tomb and then suddenly everything spins off into a weird cannibalism story with a Daedric lord involved. That happened numerous times for me.

 

[Zewp]

The best way to look at this is to look at ESO. ESO was squarely aimed at the newfags and dumbcunts who jizz over Skyrim and say dumb shit like BEST GAME EVAAAA!!! They hang around in gay ass forums not talking about how upfront + subscription + microtransactions is a ripoff but brag about how many and what color horses they bought. Yes the abomination called ESO is purely a momentum money grab aimed at dumbcunts who think Skyrim is the shit... because if handholding dumbed down condescending 'you're the chosen one' banal crap worked in Skyrim it's gotta work with ESO right?

This is actually not true. ESO actually doesn't cater to Bethtards. It caters to MMO gamers.

 

[Spectacle]

Yeah. I'm pretty much torn on this. On one hand, it was one of the better parts of Oblivion. On the other hand, they basically threw one of the coolest Daedric Lords out of the window for stroking the player ego (you're a god now!). And as nice as it was for Oblivion, it was banal shit boring for a Daedric realm. From the realm of madness it went to the realm of mildly eccentric inhabitants.

Bethesda should hire Prosper to design Sheogoraths realm in TES6.


Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Nah, Prosper should design Vaermina's realm.

Quagmire is a realm of Oblivion, created and ruled over by the Daedric Prince of Nightmare, Vaermina. It is a realm of horrors, where reality shifts upon itself in seemingly impossible ways. Every few minutes, lightning flashes and the realm morphs into a terrifying scene, each one more frightening than the last.

It is the realm most often visited by mortals. From her citadel in the center of the realm, Vaermina reaches out into Mundus and collects the memories of sleeping mortals, leaving nothing but visions of horror and despair. These experiences, known as nightmares, involve the mind of a mortal traveling to Quagmire. Through magical teleportation, it is possible for a mortal to enter Quagmire while awake, as was done by the mage Morian Zenas.

 

[Wlerin]

To me, the problem with Oblivion isn't the size of the dungeons, as I admit I enjoyed the very first one I explored. The problem is that the architecture never changes, and so every dungeon feels quite similar to the last.

So, just like in Morrowind, huh? Dwemer ruin - after a cultist fortress - after a cave - after another dwemer ruin. Except that Oblivion's dungeons are more complex and bigger, and in this particular case bigger == better.

Actually in this case, bigger == worse, since it's just more of the same. Morrowind had a lot of small dungeons with interesting design plus (quite) a few large dungeons that rewarded full exploration. Morrowind also had a bit more static loot, so there was actually some reason to explore those out of the way dungeons, as opposed to the boring repetitive levelled loot that Oblivion provides (not that MW didn't also have levelled loot).