Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Runciter]

Get a load of all the whingeing and "wahh, pre-order canceled" nonsense in this thread. The problem here doesn't lie with Chris Roberts. Mainly, the problem lies with pledgers who will pay only the minimum amount necessary to secure a copy of the game—unless they're bribed with in-game incentives, physical tchotchkes, additional content updates, soundtracks, art books, and in-depth stretch goals.

I agree with you about pledgers and rewards. But the fallacy lies in saying that Roberts didn't have a choice. He could have easily chosen to give out only gameplay-neutral rewards like credits entries, T-shirts and other such things which have been offered by successful Kickstarter game projects. He could have decided against an in-game shop. He could have set a less LARPy and more informative tone for his website. I'm sure that even if he had done all those things differently, he may not have gotten such a high figure, but he still would have successfully funded the game; look at how well Elite 4 is doing so far without all that shit.

All I'm saying is he can't have that and my money at the same time. And really, now that I think of it, it's become clear to me that he has intended to appease the masses and go for the cash from the very start; the fault lies with people like me who thought Star Citizen was going to be like the other Kickstarter projects where the monocled pledger is the boss and the developer is his bitch.

 

[Blaine]

There's a big difference between Star Citizen and other recent Kickstarter notables such as Project Eternity, Wasteland 2, and Double Fine Adventure. Star Citizen will feature persistent online multiplayer (not fully concurrent, mind you, but persistent), there will be significant server costs to cover, and monthly or bi-monthly content updates are planned. That is in addition to a separate do-it-yourself, mod-able, comparatively basic multiplayer that will also be included. Elite: Dangerous will essentially have basic multiplayer only, of the same caliber you'd expect to find in a co-op game such as Borderlands 2. Chris hopes to allow 64 or more spacecraft/players to occupy the same concurrent part of a persistent universe with constant content updates. That's a far cry from non-persistent, four-player co-op.

He went with the choice that's most likely work for a game like Star Citizen (not quite an MMO, but much more than simple co-op) in 2012: The free-to-play model. None of the project updates have changed that in any substantial way.

Meanwhile, you all seem to be ignoring the pages upon pages of detailed information available in the Star Citizen Kickstarter update archive and on the RSI website. "Why is he LARPing," "There's only basic info on the front page intended for idiots," et cetera. Are you fucking blind? Every aspect of the game as it's currently planned is explained in excessive detail. There are a lot of "describe the star system/ship/pledge reward" posts, but there are equally as many featuring developer interviews, descriptions of each planned feature and how they all fit together, descriptions and demonstrations of how the ships will be controlled, numerous paragraphs explaining in detail which flight sim peripherals will be supported (basically anything you can imagine, from joysticks to head-tracking helmets to actual simulation seats), explanations of the graphics technology, AI and game engine, and so on. It's actually a pretty amazing bonus that there's so much "lore" material available, too. Not to mention, there are more and better tech demo videos than for any major Kickstarter project ever.

I still see nothing but nitpicking and whingeing going on in this thread. Everyone's working themselves into a tizzy over the F2P elements in this Kickstarter, but well, it's a F2P game. As much as I personally dislike the F2P model myself, I've seen it work well for other games I've enjoyed.

If Chris delivers on even 75% of the promised features (I personally expect about 90%), Star Citizen will quite literally be the first game of its kind. Freelancer, Jumpgate, Evochron, Vendetta Online, and other space sims with online elements won't even remotely compare. But by all means, cancel that $30 pledge because you're buttpained you won't receive a permanent RSI Constellation, or wish you didn't have to pay to get aesthetic ship decals. Chris is insulting your intelligence, treating you as a walking wallet, and essentially just pissing in your face, right? Never mind that he's the most bro-tier space sim developer of the 1990s, never mind that the Wing Commander series is legendary and deservedly so, let's Jew up and smash out that indignant "PRE-ORDER CANCELED" so we can let our fellow Codexians know how incensed we are.

 

[Morgoth]

Dude Blaine, don't be so angry.

I'm probaly gonna buy the game when it comes out anyway (yes, even full price if it's that good), but understandably, he starts from scratch with a completely new and unproven team, so people don't like the idea of throwing money at something that will come out in 2+ years and could possibly suck.

Project Eternity was different. We know who Obsidian is and what they stand for, so that was a no-brainer.

 

[Blaine]

Oh, I understand completely. I'm witnessing a classic case of the tightfisted old-school gamer. He's the guy who's pushing thirty years old (or forty), who registered on No Mutants Allowed in 1997 and on NeoGAF in 1999, who's spent thousands of hours of his life reading and posting on gaming forums, who constantly complains about brownbloom modern military shooters, consolitis, regenerating health and quest markers, and who sings the praises of all games hardcore and turn-based at every opportunity. Yet when the old-school finally comes knocking again, all the tightfisted old-school gamer does is bitch and complain, nitpick and criticize, and then cough up a handful of dollars—IF the developers promise to create an exact clone of the object of nostalgia, and IF the tightfisted old-school gamer agrees with each and every one of their decisions.

The last great mission-based dogfighting space sim was Freespace 2, released in 1999. In the thirteen years since, nothing else has approached it in quality, including Freelancer. For most of the 21st century, the only space trading and combat sims of any real note have been Freelancer, the X series, and Evochron. All of these games are enjoyable in their way, but they all have some rather significant flaws and are few and far between. Escape Velocity: Nova gets an honorable mention and is quite excellent, but it's a top-down 2D shoot-em-up adventure game with a static economy and so isn't a direct comparison.

This is it for space sim fans. This is the year of the Kickstarter boom, there will never be another year quite like it, and these projects are our Holy Grail. In my opinion, space sim fans should be willing to pony up and accept the fact that the games might turn out to be shit. You may "lose" the money, but it was well spent on a worthy attempt at bringing back the glory days. Being overly cautious and unwilling to take any risks is despicable. When the Kickstarter for Elite: Dangerous appeared, Codexians were commenting that there weren't any movies or pictures. I instead immediately bet a $100 donation to the Codex that Braben would meet or exceed his funding goal.

I too am unsure of the strange new directions these back-from-the-dead developers might decide to take, and I don't agree with all of their decisions, either. But this is the year to shut up with the fucking complaining for once and dig out some cash, then hope for the best. EA named its sack of shit digital distribution service after Origin, soiling its once-great name for all time. Wing Commander was whored out into an arcadey shmup ripoff on Xbox Live four or five years ago. Now, here's Chris Roberts himself bringing back Wing Commander and Privateer, and you're cancelling. your. fucking. preorder.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Oh, I understand completely. I'm witnessing a classic case of the tightfisted old-school gamer. He's the guy who's pushing thirty years old (or forty), who registered on No Mutants Allowed in 1997 and on NeoGAF in 1999, who's spent thousands of hours of his life reading and posting on gaming forums, who constantly complains about brownbloom modern military shooters, consolitis, regenerating health and quest markers, and who sings the praises of all games hardcore and turn-based at every opportunity. Yet when the old-school finally comes knocking again, all the tightfisted old-school gamer does is bitch and complain, nitpick and criticize, and then cough up a handful of dollars—IF the developers promise to create an exact clone of the object of nostalgia, and IF the tightfisted old-school gamer agrees with each and every one of their decisions.

The last great mission-based dogfighting space sim was Freespace 2, released in 1999. In the thirteen years since, nothing else has approached it in quality, including Freelancer. For most of the 21st century, the only space trading and combat sims of any real note have been Freelancer, the X series, and Evochron. All of these games are enjoyable in their way, but they all have some rather significant flaws and are few and far between. Escape Velocity: Nova gets an honorable mention and is quite excellent, but it's a top-down 2D shoot-em-up adventure game with a static economy and so isn't a direct comparison.

This is it for space sim fans. This is the year of the Kickstarter boom, there will never be another year quite like it, and these projects are our Holy Grail. In my opinion, space sim fans should be willing to pony up and accept the fact that the games might turn out to be shit. You may "lose" the money, but it was well spent on a worthy attempt at bringing back the glory days. Being overly cautious and unwilling to take any risks is despicable. When the Kickstarter for Elite: Dangerous appeared, Codexians were commenting that there weren't any movies or pictures. I instead immediately bet a $100 donation to the Codex that Braben would meet or exceed his funding goal.

I too am unsure of the strange new directions these back-from-the-dead developers might decide to take, and I don't agree with all of their decisions, either. But this is the year to shut up with the fucking complaining for once and dig out some cash, then hope for the best. EA named its sack of shit digital distribution service after Origin, soiling its once-great name for all time. Wing Commander was whored out into an arcadey shmup ripoff on Xbox Live four or five years ago. Now, here's Chris Roberts himself bringing back Wing Commander and Privateer, and you're cancelling. your. fucking. preorder.

Completely agree on the Origin thing as well, they're pissing all over the name.

/hides avatar

 

[Commissar Draco]

Add Mouse support and you will sold this to me, Should be 10 times better than Freelancer with Discovery Mod.

 

[Trash]

Pledged. Origin was awesome and Roberts was known as a visionary whose insane ideas meant you had to get yourself a new pc every time he made them realities. Plus I'm really missing that whole genre. The first Wing Commander I played when I got it in a bundled edition together with Elite and Megatraveller. Me remembering that shows the awesome gaming value and nostalgia that I'm more than happy to shell out some cash for to give Roberts another chance to do his thing.


And with Nexus 2 and Ars Magica failing I got some expendable cash to burn. Sad as it is.


EDIT: Freespace 2 was in 1999? Just upped my pledge. This genre that brought us awesome such as privateer and tie fighter needs a boost

 

[GreatPretender]

Morgoth Chris is a game developer himself and not some PR dude, movie director, Wing comannder 1 and 2 was pretty much coded and made by himself. Chris got the skills.

 

[Morgoth]

Morgoth Chris is a game developer himself and not some PR dude, movie director, Wing comannder 1 and 2 was pretty much coded and made by himself. Chris got the skills.

WC1/2 were a lot simpler games.

He can't make Star Citizen completely on his own. The rest of the team are unproven, that's why I won't pledge.

 

[GreatPretender]

 

[GreatPretender]

3.5 million. Seems like it might beat PE and be the biggest crowdfunded game.

 

[Blaine]

I've been monitoring Star Citizen's funding progress for the past few days, making intermittent notes of the running total along with a timestamp for each notation. It's gaining a very reliable $5,000 per hour.

If that trend continues, the final total on Monday afternoon will be $4,156,113. The last-minute rush will almost certainly bolster this figure, and might pass $4.25m.

That's well beyond Project Eternity, although it's worth noting that Star Citizen's crowdfunding has been live for an additional 37 days via the RSI website.

 

[GreatPretender]

Yea but it was with the site crash etc so its ok that they upped the time.

 

[Blaine]

Boarding Information

As promised, we'd like to share the internal concept for ship-to-ship docking and boarding concept. Please note that this is the very early pitch--some details may change as we balance the game and build out/expand the mechanic!

Boarding Mechanics

The goal is to develop a system where player-to-player boarding is an occasional reward rather than something that becomes the focus of the game; we’re not building Grand Theft Starship. As such, we need a high cost of entry: players must dedicate both significant resources and skill to be able to put themselves in a position to board in the first place.

There are two major limitations on docking: 1) the target ship must be COMPLETELY disabled before it can be boarder and 2) docking requires the attacking player to dedicate credits and slots to several gate technologies, including a docking collar and a tractor beam.

Disabling a target ship is a much more difficult task than it was in Wing Commander, where leech weapons would simply wear down the target. In Star Citizen, the player needs to knock down the enemy ships’ shields and then (without causing a hull breach) pick off the individual thrusters. This is the skill barrier: if you can’t shoot well enough to take apart a ship piece by piece then you can’t board an enemy ship.

Tractor Beams are a dangerous technology. They take up a standard gun slot and are designed for collecting material significantly less massive than their host ship (escaped pilots, cargo pallets, bobbleheads, etc.) As such, there’s a constant danger of overloading when using them to dock, especially with cheaper models. Additionally, they require that the target ship be ABSOLUTELY DISABLED – firing a tractor beam at a ship that still has functional thrusters will overload it and severely damage the attacker.

A docking collar is needed to attach ships together. As with tractor beams, different levels are available which will allow connections to different sizes of ships; boarding something large like a carrier is much easier than something your own size, like a Constellation (disabling another Constellation's thrusters will require a crack shot, to say the least, and a much more accurate collar.) If the game hits the $4 million mark, collarless external ship combat will be added with pilots in pressure suits wearing EMUs able to battle it out in space; explosive charges would be used to open the targeted ship's airlock.

The standard VDU will not identify whether or not a ship is completely disabled; it will have a gut feel/skill element to it. Higher software upgrades will provide more in-depth scans of a target that will give you a better assurance that no maneuvering remains in place… for a price.

Also note that docking mechanics do NOT apply to ships with a single crewman or certain smaller bombers; the general rule is that if there’s not room to walk around then only the salvage mechanic can apply to it. You need a crewed ship to board in the first place and you can only board crewed ships which are larger than your own (in crew size.)

Combat

Once a ship has successfully tractored in a target vessel, it will dock at a pre-determined location on the hull (ie, you will always dock at one of the same doors on the Constellation.) There will be a 30-second period where the attacking player cuts open the target’s door. The defender can use that time to set up to fire back. Think an interactive recreation of the opening scene of Star Wars, with the Rebels nervously waiting to defend the corvette from Stormtroopers.

Players will have access to a variety of upgrades to help/hinder boarding operations. Armored space suits, hand scanners, explosives, more powerful (or functionally different) weapons and so on will be available to players on both sides of the equations.

Defending players will have upgrade options that can help put the battle in their favor: a self destruct process, a dead man’s switch, automated miniguns they can position in the cockpit and so on. It’s going to be a challenge to get onboard a targeted ship successfully, one that you’ll need to work with your friends to accomplish.

Finally, the cost to recover a boarded ship will ultimately be high. Since you’ve disabled and otherwise crippled it in battle (and cut into the hull to board) you must conduct repairs in deep space if you wish to keep the hull rather than simply looting it… during which the ship is in danger of being boarded by a third party. Boarding parties should plan to carry an advance repair bot with them or to suffer the difficulty of flying in a depressurized cockpit (limited life support time, less responsive controls.) Finally, only one ship can be flown at once: you will need to work with a partner if you wish to keep a boarded ship and your own craft.

 

[J_C]

I've been monitoring Star Citizen's funding progress for the past few days, making intermittent notes of the running total along with a timestamp for each notation. It's gaining a very reliable $5,000 per hour.

If that trend continues, the final total on Monday afternoon will be $4,156,113. The last-minute rush will almost certainly bolster this figure, and might pass $4.25m.

That's well beyond Project Eternity, although it's worth noting that Star Citizen's crowdfunding has been live for an additional 37 days via the RSI website.

Project Eternity would have gained 5 million if it had been up for +37 days.

 

[Blaine]

Project Eternity would have gained 5 million if it had been up for +37 days.

It may yet reach or surpass $5m. Most of the major projects and likely many of the minor ones continue accepting pledges on their own websites after Kickstarter has wrapped up.

 

[J_C]

Project Eternity would have gained 5 million if it had been up for +37 days.

It may yet reach or surpass $5m. Most of the major projects and likely many of the minor ones continue accepting pledges on their own websites after Kickstarter has wrapped up.

The devs should put a counter on their site, to show us how many extra donations have they received. I think many would be interested in it.

 

[Blaine]

I felt there was a need for a terse, yet comprehensive list of the game's features. Here's what I came up with; note that I assume the crowdfunding will reach or surpass $4m. Feel free to point out any glaring omissions:

• base cost at launch presumed to be $30, no subscription required, F2P elements
• F2P elements will not be pay-to-win or draconian; monthly limit on credit purchases
• offline, 45-mission single-player (Squadron 42); optional online element (drop-in/drop-out co-op)
• mod-able, user-hosted multiplayer
• mod tools will be provided to players free of charge
• persistent multiplayer universe (Star Citizen) hosted by RSI
• additional single-player campaigns planned for Squadron 42
• weekly or bi-weekly "micro-updates" planned to expand Star Citizen's content
• 50 star systems planned at launch
• 12 ships planned at launch, from light fighters to multi-crew corvettes
• players' actions will shape the persistent universe
• user-generated content (such as new ship designs) will be allowed
• conscientious fostering of social divisions and factions (e.g. pirates and lawmen)
• fully dynamic, detailed and competitive economy
• during dynamic multiplayer combat, slots are reserved to call friends to assist you
• multi-crewed ships with multiple stations, turrets and/or launch-able fighter(s)
• ships can be disabled and boarded, and will also feature crew-vs-crew combat
• there will be first-person shooter elements, with melee and ranged weapons, customizable suit HUDs, magnetic boots, etc.
• Newtonian flight physics with optional fly-by-wire features
• cockpits will be part and parcel of the ship and feature readouts, HUDs, and interactive elements
• ships will be intricately built from hundreds of components, many of which will actually move, articulate and can be damaged
• each component affects ship performance dynamically and organically (e.g. damage-able directional thrusters, dump cargo for better maneuverability)
• ship cockpits and interiors will be customizable, as will ship exteriors
• visual fidelity and scale of the game planned to push modern PCs to their limits
• scaling will be seamless with no loading screens or loss of visual fidelity
• advanced integrated peripheral support (Oculus Rift, TrackIR, joysticks, throttles, flight yokes, mouse, keyboard, etc.)

 

[Blaine]

RSI Constellation reveal:

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/introducing-the-rsi-constellation-mk3/ (article; full gallery at bottom of page)

 

[Overboard]

base cost at launch presumed to be $30

Nope, says there on their kickstarter page that it will be $60 at launch. You get the basic game if you pledge at the $30 tier and above now.

 

[Blaine]

Nope, says there on their kickstarter page that it will be $60 at launch. You get the basic game if you pledge at the $30 tier and above now.

Quite right. I also added a note that crowdfunders pay a base cost of $35, added in the fact that players can discover and name star systems, and noted that user-made content submissions and named systems are subject to quality control. Also turned it into an image file for sharing convenience:

 

[GreatPretender]

3,8 million and 3 days to go..... 4 million seems to be sure now.

 

[Blaine]

3,8 million and 3 days to go..... 4 million seems to be sure now.

It's sure. The crowdfunding's still increasing at a rate of about $5,000 per hour as I calculated earlier (a bit faster now, I think), and with the inevitable last-minute pledge rush, $4.25m+ is quite likely.

 

[Metro]

At this point, he has the money he needs so I'm just going to take a wait and see approach. If, in roughly two years time, he delivers then I'll gladly hand over $60 for it.

 

[Morgoth]

At this point, he has the money he needs so I'm just going to take a wait and see approach. If, in roughly two years time, he delivers then I'll gladly hand over $60 for it.

That is actually my plan too (aka Day 1 purchase).