Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[Ulrox]

i5-4590 3.3GHz

That is the cpu I figured you'd be using. I'm on an AMD FX 8370 Eight-Core. Should've bought an intel and I'd have been much happier. Only flaw in my configuration though.

 

[Zed]

Wasn't he blue?

whitewashed nameless one.

 

[Reject_666_6]

I thought it was about time that a game incorporated past lives into its storyline.

 

[Lady_Error]

eh? what soul mechanic?

Souls and past lives in the storyline, the animancers and whether to trust them, etc.

that's not a mechanic, that's a narrative device

The soul mechanic is incorporated into the storyline - if you want to be pedantic about it. The animancers study and use the soul mechanics, for example.

I thought it was about time that a game incorporated past lives into its storyline.

Yeah, nice picture of Guido Henkel. Though seriously, it's not even actual past lives in PST since he stays in the same body all the time.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

As far as i'm concerned, Obsidian gets a freebie with PoE. It was fine for a playthrough and looked awesome. With some good will i consider it a start of possible IE incline.

But if they continue with the same content in expansions and PoE 2, it's another story...

Spoiler

Of course, hardly can wait for VD's "it was better than BG2, awesome role-playing, 9.9/10 with some minor flaws" review.

 

[Average Manatee]

I've ignored pre-release hype and all of bullshit drama in the lead up as much as possible. Played for a few hours, came to most of the same conclusions of Darth Roxor (or at least came to expect them) with regard to the mechanics. This game is no PS:T or MotB that can stand on its own purely based on story and characterization, with poor mechanics and all of this combat its doomed for mediocrity.

My assumption (based on no info at all) is that the source of the issues can be traced back to Obsidian marketing their kickstarter and hyped based on "it's like an IE game but new and original". This is great for the purpose of marketing, but in execution it is inherently flawed. Obsidian laid the framework for an IE game, then spent all of their time trying to make it "original" rather than trying to make it good. This is doubly problematic, because when trying to be "original" Obsidian set out actively avoiding things that made IE games good. Itemization, class balance, encounter design all feel like some "original do not steal" amateur work ripping off MMOs and poor RPGs by someone too afraid to copy IE because they want to be considered some font of creativity.

Aside from the mechanics I didn't play far enough to really get a feel, but what I did feel echoed the same sentiment.

Maybe Obsidian was planning to be more original but got cold feet with all the expectations and freedom they had, or maybe they were planning to copy IE more faithfully but the internet over-hyped the originality of PoE and they were afraid of releasing a copy cat. Either way, meh.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

the only innovative game mechanic in your list is the health/endurance split

I hear this game has muscular wizards too.

 

[Zeriel]

eh? what soul mechanic?

That soul power ("Might") affects both spell and physical damage.

Wow, it's like the same gamist mechanic as every other watered down "RPG" after the year 2010!

If that's an innovation, then Diablo 3 is the most Sawyerist game yet.

As far as i'm concerned, Obsidian gets a freebie with PoE. It was fine for a playthrough and looked awesome. With some good will i consider it a start of possible IE incline.

But if they continue with the same content in expansions and PoE 2, it's another story...

Spoiler

Of course, hardly can wait for VD's "it was better than BG2, awesome role-playing, 9.9/10 with some minor flaws" review.

As I recall VD wasn't the biggest fan of BG2, so that might actually be honest of him to say "way better than BG2!"

 

[Athelas]

eh? what soul mechanic?

That soul power ("Might") affects both spell and physical damage.

Wow, it's like the same gamist mechanic as every other watered down "RPG" after the year 2010!

If that's an innovation, then Diablo 3 is the most Sawyerist game yet.

Diablo 3 has separate stats for physical and magical damage.

 

[Zeriel]

eh? what soul mechanic?

That soul power ("Might") affects both spell and physical damage.

Wow, it's like the same gamist mechanic as every other watered down "RPG" after the year 2010!

If that's an innovation, then Diablo 3 is the most Sawyerist game yet.

Diablo 3 has separate stats for physical and magical damage.

Weapon damage my nigga.

*swings flaming claymore at demons*

I AM STUDYING ESOTERIA IN THE COLLEGE OF WIZARDS.

 

[Lady_Error]

right but I thought we were talking about actual game mechanics, not the internal, ah, 'logic' of the setting

the only innovative game mechanic in your list is the health/endurance split

Nobody said that innovations must be limited to mechanics.

 

[ricolikesrice]

eh, i thought SOZ was obsidian s worst ( a game roxor liked if i remember right ) but otherwise i agree with most of what he wrote. mind you i only played ~25 hours of PoE until i just couldnt take it any more - my main beef being the awful combat & character development.

Its still a better game than that awful piece of shit wasteland 2 however.

Otherwise carry on, not out for KKK ( i m currently loving the fuck out of Age of Wonders 3: Eternal Lords, which dethroned MoM for me but most of you faggots dislike that game for completely retarded reasons so fuck the codex ).

 

[agris]

Btw, people complaining about load times must be stuck in 386. Transitions take 5 seconds to load on Act 3 to me.

What CPU are you using...? An Intel Xeon E5-2699 v3?

I'm on a ~5 year old computer and my load times are ~10s on a mechanical HD. I think saving over existing files adds to the load time. I'm using rolling static saves, and periodically delete my quicksave/autosave so they start fresh. Maybe this is the gaming equivalent of wearing lucky socks, but its working for me.

 

[Bubbles]

eh, i thought SOZ was obsidian s worst

SoZ was very good, soz. Finally some degree of actual world exploration.

I'm on a ~5 year old computer and my load times are ~10s on a mechanical HD. I think saving over existing files adds to the load time. I'm using rolling static saves, and periodically delete my quicksave/autosave so they start fresh. Maybe this is the gaming equivalent of wearing lucky socks, but its working for me.

The game still has some save game bloat bugs. Used to be that every trap ever placed got permanently saved 6 times (once for every party member), but they fixed that - now there's some other sort of bug.

 

[Irenaeus]

hardly can wait for VD's "it was better than BG2, awesome role-playing, 9.9/10 with some minor flaws" review.

Me too, so we can have a correct review instead of this retarded one.

 

[Bubbles]

If you want that kind of review, I suggest submitting one yourself.

 

[Alex]

Darth Roxor's favorite Obsidian game = KOTOR2.

REVIEW INVALIDATED.

I think it's actually Alpha Potatocol.

You are looking at this the wrong way. People will think "Roxor likes AP, so he dislikes good games like PoE". But what we have here is "PoE is so bad, even people who liked AP won't like it".

 

[Irenaeus]

If you want that kind of review, I suggest submitting one yourself.

Here's my review: masterpiece 10/10

 

[Ulrox]

If you want that kind of review, I suggest submitting one yourself.

Here's my review: masterpiece 10/10

GOOD REVIEW, CODEX, PLZ PUT THIS ON THE FRONT PAGE.

 

[SerratedBiz]

eh? what soul mechanic?

That soul power ("Might") affects both spell and physical damage.

Wow, it's like the same gamist mechanic as every other watered down "RPG" after the year 2010!

If that's an innovation, then Diablo 3 is the most Sawyerist game yet.

Diablo 3 has separate stats for physical and magical damage.

It doesn't. There's only the primary stat for your class that increases your damage, regardless of whether you're doing physical or magical damage.

 

[MRY]

Let me begin by saying that, to me, this is what is best about the Codex: after pouring its treasure, time, and hopes into a game, it promptly dissects the newborn offspring to explain exactly why the thing is unfit to live. Elsewhere, one might respond to lavish fanboyism with, "Put your money where your mouth is!" But here, the Codex puts in its money, and then proceeds to use its mouth like Saturn.

The depth and wit of Darth Roxor's review is, I think, above criticism (though, this being the Codex, naturally his review must be criticized). At the same time, it seems to me to miss a fairly essential point. Imagine that Dr. Frankenstein carries out his experiments, but rather than stitching together a beautiful, brilliant, well-made man, he creates something less appealing: its limbs a bit misproportioned, its body somewhat unfit, its mind perhaps not as discerning as one might hope. A comrade looks upon the doctor and says, "All that hype, and you merely made a mediocrity?" This scornful comrade may help drive the good doctor to even higher heights, but it seems to me that he is looking at things all wrong: whether or not you would invite Frankenstein's mediocrity over for supper, the doctor has made a whole living man out of the parts of corpses! That is a brilliant achievement, no matter whether the end result is perfect or flawed.

It is true that PoE does not have turn-based combat; otherwise, it has included all the parts one could want: a rich, non-licensed setting; a complex character system with races, classes, skills, stats, talents, feats, etc; dialogue trees with skill-checks and other checks; tactical party-based combat with a large party; an "isometric" camera angle; painted environments; liberal use of text and text adventures; and at least some degree of exploration. Now, each of these parts may be withered or malformed in some way -- I haven't played the game for more than a tiny bit, so I can't say -- but the parts are there.

Pulling those parts together is hard work. No matter how derivative the setting seems, it's still serious work to build it. Creating the engine is an immense undertaking. Developing your own ruleset is no mean feat. And so on. Making the parts cohere and live is even harder. Obsidian may not have gotten everything right, but they didn't have the pre-existing edifices to work off of that other games like BG2, PS:T, MOTB, KOTOR 2, SOZ, etc. had.

For my money, even on this review, POE seems better than BG: prettier, less goofy, free from a licensed setting, etc. The question is whether its fruits will be a PS:T (after all, TTON is employing at least some of the POE engine and know-how), a BG2, an IWD, etc. Or whether it will instead yield a Dragon Age 2. Either way, I do think the better framework for judging the moral worth of POE is as an imperfect resurrection, not as a misspent inheritance.

That said, criticism never hurt anything, and I imagine the POE team will read this and get some useful insights.

 

[Athelas]

eh? what soul mechanic?

That soul power ("Might") affects both spell and physical damage.

Wow, it's like the same gamist mechanic as every other watered down "RPG" after the year 2010!

If that's an innovation, then Diablo 3 is the most Sawyerist game yet.

Diablo 3 has separate stats for physical and magical damage.

It doesn't. There's only the primary stat for your class that increases your damage, regardless of whether you're doing physical or magical damage.

That's still more discrete than having one stat that governs any and all kinds of damage.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Lady Error
When you are talking about mechanics in context of a video game everyone will assume that you are talking about game mechanics. Still, I don't get what's so innovative about souls in the game, for most parts they function just like they do in Mortal Kobat. The only really interesting aspects are discriminating people based on their past lives and awakening. The game hoever does nothing interesting about them despite the fact that MC himself had very shameful past life and is awoken.
I mean look, in the setting there is a way to gain a lifetime of experience by going to some locations and talking to some folks and nobody does anything with that except for the Crucible Knighs and they are using it in the most boring way imaginable. If I discovered that I was a great gee past life I'd do anything to get years of my combat experience right. Ok, you might say that Taos is doing exactly that by cheating the system, but in practice it's just the same as him being immortal, which is nothing new in fantasy. If you were able to observe and perhaps influence his awakening of his next incarnation that would be something impressive.

As for other innovations:
-Animal companion is nothing new, many classes in DnD had them since the third edition.
-Chanter is valid, it's one of the most original takes on the bard yet and I like it very much
-Endurance/health split is totally useless in the game because of how it's designed. It's your usual regenerating health system you know from games like Dragon Age, but with forced rest here and there. It could be something new, but because of how the game is constructed it's really not.
-You just need to go through one level of the dungeon to gain control. This is not different to the Planar Sphere from BG2
-WOW had guns over 10 years ago.

 

[SerratedBiz]

That's still more discrete than having one stat that governs any and all kinds of damage.

Is it? How? It's the same thing.

 

[Athelas]

That's still more discrete than having one stat that governs any and all kinds of damage.

Is it? How? It's the same thing.

Clearly it isn't, otherwise the Might stat in PoE wouldn't have received literally hundreds of pages of discussion.