Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Delterius]

As far as I know everyone gets the Downtown haven?

 

[Grunker]

bitch have u played alpha protocol, it's worse than even bloodlines in terms of combat which is quite the feat

I actually disagree (it does have worse stealth though), but Alpha Protocol was made by a different, far more inept Obsidian that no longer exists. New Vegas, Dungeon Siege III, and South Park don't have anything close to the best combat ever by any means, but they're still better-executed than both AP and Bloodlines (I feel the same may be true for Pillars, of course I haven't played it yet).

New Vegas certainly, but it wasn't theirs. DS maybe. SP? LOL.

My point you can't make a claim like that. It's going to depend who works on it and how well-directed the project's going to be.

And I maintain that AP has the worst shooting in any high-profile, "non-joke" game I've played.

 

[Multidirectional]

Combat-wise, Malk is similar to Toreador so far: Dementation is mostly same as Domination, Auspex is shared, only real difference is Obfuscation instead of Thaumaturgy.

Dementation is similar to Domination indeed, except a lot funnier. I suggest you max it for max hilarity in combat and dialogues. Obfuscate is OP too and eliminates any need to raise Sneak. Even at 3 it's already really powerful. I only raise Auspex up to 2, barely use it in combat with Malk but sometimes use it as a Hacking buff.

 

[Roguey]

As far as I know everyone gets the Downtown haven?

Nope, ya gotta be nice and agree to do everything the Prince says like he says it unless you're a tremere (you a place in Strauss's place) or a nosferatu (a place in the caves). Certainly doesn't seem counter intuitive to me.

New Vegas certainly, but it wasn't theirs.

All the changes made to the system were Josh's.

SP? LOL.

97% of Steam owners and a 48% completion rate agree: South Park's combat doesn't annoy most people who play it.

My point you can't make a claim like that. It's going to depend who works on it and how well-directed the project's going to be.

Obsidian doesn't botch projects with inept management anymore and they now have the Design Director to steer everyone on the right path.

 

[Delterius]

Nope, ya gotta be nice and agree to do everything the Prince says like he says it unless you're a tremere (you a place in Strauss's place) or a nosferatu (a place in the caves). Certainly doesn't seem counter intuitive to me.

I mean to say there's no specific Toreador haven.

 

[Prime Junta]

97% of Steam owners and a 48% completion rate agree: South Park's combat doesn't annoy most people who play it.

I'll say this much, compared to VtM:B combat SP combat is heavan

(Seriously though, I thought it was very well suited for the game.)

 

[Grunker]

doesn't annoy most people

high bar

 

[Multidirectional]

97% of Steam owners and a 48% completion rate agree: South Park's combat doesn't annoy most people who play it.

South Park combat is enjoyable in its goofy way but I don't understand how is this game relevant at all in a topic about a real time combat game.

 

[laclongquan]

but both Malkavian and Nosferatu are clans best reserved for a second playthrough.

No way, Malk should be 1st.

There are two kinds of Bloodline players: one who lose virginity with Malkavian, and one who doesnt.

If you choose to bow to social pressure and leave Malk to second run, you lose~

 

[ZagorTeNej]

New Vegas combat gameplay is beyond awful, even compared to Bloodlines and Alpha Protocol. I have yet to play any sort of game with action elements that matched Gamebryo's clunkiness. Don't give the slightest fuck about number of copies sold or steam completion rate, masses love McDonalds too, doesn't mean it isn't shit.

And you can easily raise your Hacking skill up to 7 or so which I don't think I ever found I needed more.

Very few instances where you need more, last Mitnick's hacking quest and the computer in Fu Syndicate that holds information about Mandarin's employer (it's behind a 10 lockpick door as well).

And yeah it's true that armed with metagame knowledge about research books (and using the resell exploit), training from NPCs and optimal quest solutions you can easily make a char that is great at both diplomacy and combat.

Dementation is similar to Domination indeed, except a lot funnier. I suggest you max it for max hilarity in combat and dialogues.

Indeed, Dementation dialogue options trump Dominate ones big time. It's one of the best parts of playing as a Malk, I always raise it to 3 ASAP.

I only raise Auspex up to 2, barely use it in combat with Malk but sometimes use it as a Hacking buff.

People underrate Auspex, it increases ranged damage, both defense and hacking (which means you can reach 10 hacking with zero invest in computer) and gives you a wallhack on top of it. If I'm playing a gunslinger I keep it on pretty much all the time in combat zones.

 

[ghostdog]

but both Malkavian and Nosferatu are clans best reserved for a second playthrough.

No way, Malk should be 1st.

There are two kinds of Bloodline players: one who lose virginity with Malkavian, and one who doesnt.

If you choose to bow to social pressure and leave Malk to second run, you lose~

I suggest malk for a second playthrough only because it makes the game feel completely fresh again.

 

[baturinsky]

I have just noticed that Malk is only(?) clan whose powers never break the Masquerade.

 

[Sizzle]

but both Malkavian and Nosferatu are clans best reserved for a second playthrough.

No way, Malk should be 1st.

There are two kinds of Bloodline players: one who lose virginity with Malkavian, and one who doesnt.

If you choose to bow to social pressure and leave Malk to second run, you lose~

I suggest malk for a second playthrough only because it makes the game feel completely fresh again.

I agree. A lot of the things the Malk says (and hears) really only make sense if you've played through the game at least once.

 

[Prime Junta]

I'll say this much, compared to VtM:B combat SP combat is heavan

Come the fuck on...

I don't know why people exaggerate the flaws in VtmB combat so much.

I know, this place is usually so measured and reasonable.

(SP combat was still competently-executed cartoon JRPG turn-based combat. VtM:B has incompetently executed first/third-person combat. Fuck that's a boring topic though, the game has so many more interesting features to discuss.)

 

[Multidirectional]

And yeah it's true that armed with metagame knowledge about research books (and using the resell exploit), training from NPCs and optimal quest solutions you can easily make a char that is great at both diplomacy and combat.

What is resell exploit?

 

[Prime Junta]

And yeah it's true that armed with metagame knowledge about research books (and using the resell exploit), training from NPCs and optimal quest solutions you can easily make a char that is great at both diplomacy and combat.

What is resell exploit?

Find training book. Sell it to vendor. Buy it back. It remains in his inventory, so you can buy it back again. You'll be able to squeeze two pips out of some training books this way. Usually not more because all the books have a min and max stat limit.

 

[Tacgnol]

And yeah it's true that armed with metagame knowledge about research books (and using the resell exploit), training from NPCs and optimal quest solutions you can easily make a char that is great at both diplomacy and combat.

What is resell exploit?

Find training book. Sell it to vendor. Buy it back. It remains in his inventory, so you can buy it back again. You'll be able to squeeze two pips out of some training books this way. Usually not more because all the books have a min and max stat limit.

Has Wesp not fixed that?

 

[Multidirectional]

Find training book. Sell it to vendor. Buy it back. It remains in his inventory, so you can buy it back again. You'll be able to squeeze two pips out of some training books this way. Usually not more because all the books have a min and max stat limit.

Oh I had no idea you could do that.

 

[baturinsky]

And yeah it's true that armed with metagame knowledge about research books (and using the resell exploit), training from NPCs and optimal quest solutions you can easily make a char that is great at both diplomacy and combat.

What is resell exploit?

Find training book. Sell it to vendor. Buy it back. It remains in his inventory, so you can buy it back again. You'll be able to squeeze two pips out of some training books this way. Usually not more because all the books have a min and max stat limit.

Has Wesp not fixed that?

He did, but not everyone is playing Plus.

 

[Tacgnol]

And yeah it's true that armed with metagame knowledge about research books (and using the resell exploit), training from NPCs and optimal quest solutions you can easily make a char that is great at both diplomacy and combat.

What is resell exploit?

Find training book. Sell it to vendor. Buy it back. It remains in his inventory, so you can buy it back again. You'll be able to squeeze two pips out of some training books this way. Usually not more because all the books have a min and max stat limit.

Has Wesp not fixed that?

He did, but not everyone is playing Plus.

Surprised that's not a basic fix tbh.

 

[Multidirectional]

Aren't all basic fixes supposed to be in Plus version anyway?

 

[Tacgnol]

Aren't all basic fixes supposed to be in Plus version anyway?

They are as far as I'm aware, but it seems like the exploit is only fixed in the plus version for some reason. I usually play plus, so never noticed.

 

[Prime Junta]

Poking around the CC again. Found a fairly hilarious bug. If you go back to Sheet and change your background, your available pips gets reset, but the pips you've distributed are still there. You can max out everything by going back and forth enough.

Even better, when I got to the tutorial, Jack chewed me out on my incredible stats. :D

 

[baturinsky]

Poking around the CC again. Found a fairly hilarious bug. If you go back to Sheet and change your background, your available pips gets reset, but the pips you've distributed are still there. You can max out everything by going back and forth enough.

Even better, when I got to the tutorial, Jack chewed me out on my incredible stats. :D

This explains why I could start with 3 in Obfuscate and what Jack was talking about.

 

[laclongquan]

but both Malkavian and Nosferatu are clans best reserved for a second playthrough.

No way, Malk should be 1st.

There are two kinds of Bloodline players: one who lose virginity with Malkavian, and one who doesnt.

If you choose to bow to social pressure and leave Malk to second run, you lose~

I suggest malk for a second playthrough only because it makes the game feel completely fresh again.

I agree. A lot of the things the Malk says (and hears) really only make sense if you've played through the game at least once.

And therefore feed the illusion that what you do is your own achievement.

Meanwhile a Malk virgin run make you feel like a dunce wandering from one achievement to another, no idea why you can do what you did, no idea what you just get told. It is the real Bloodlines experience.

Incredibly hard on gamer's ego, of course, which is why most player recommend Malk for second.