Resident Evil 2 Remake

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Resident Evil 4 is possibly the greatest third person shooter of all time.

On a gameplay level Resident Evil 6 destroys it. The stamina system that ties into things like the updated melee system, counter moves, quick shots, and the slide kick is a welcome improvement over what was previously there. The addition of environmental context moves was also nice. The whole thing also controls a lot better too.

But Resident Evil 4 is a nicer package. It's not a better game on a gameplay level, but the level of violence in death animations (which was gone from 5 & 6, I think because of some stabbing that happened shortly after RE4 that changed what they could get away with in Japan without getting their version of an AO rating) makes for more visually interesting kills, the opening town section and the cabin (where you can block doors and windows) are the best areas a Resident Evil game has ever had and it's kind of shocking that in the 13 years since its release there haven't been whole games built around this concept, and it's got some of the best Mercenaries stages. Also had nice little presentation things like Leon getting better moves as the game goes on.

 

[Wunderbar]

On a gameplay level Resident Evil 6 destroys it.

RE6 is a jumbled mess of random ideas thrown together, and most of thoes ideas don't work properly. Sure, there are a lot more mechanics, combat moves and other stuff than in RE4, but in RE4 everything works and everything is satisfying. In RE6, guns feel horrid, level design is shit and does not allow you to perform all those slides and combat rolls without stumbling into walls and other enviromental clutter, enemies have random reaction to your attacks, and the camera's fov is too low for that kind of action. Sometimes "more" isn't an improvement.

 

[DeepOcean]

The good news is that they seem to be avoiding that shit of cinematic QTE cancer than RE 4 to 6 had, but really don't know, it will all come down to if the zombies are scary enough, don't care much about the perspective, but I'm worried the camera is a symptom of popamolification and the game game will be an Evil Within 2 type of popamole game where it is more of an action game than survival horror. If ammunition is plentiful and you can popamole your way through, it would be a pity, don't see the point of survival horror where you don't need to survive or are remotely horrified. I like RE games as survival horror not popamole action. There are more than enough popamole third person shooters out there.

 

[Wunderbar]

game will be an Evil Within 2 type of popamole game where it is more of an action game than survival horror. If ammunition is plentiful and you can popamole your way through, it would be a pity, don't see the point of survival horror where you don't need to survive or are remotely horrified.

tbh there were tons of ammo in original RE2.

 

[Multidirectional]

Seems like a pretty lame choice to me.

Every weapon gets a unique upgrade unlocked once all other upgrades are done. "Crappy" starting pistol gets a huge critical boost. I cannot decide whether I prefer starting shotgun or "best" one in the game Striker. TMP is one of early weapons and is one of its kind - there's never a reason not to keep it. Weapons are meant to be unique and add to replayability. Though obviously Red9 is objectively a better weapon than starting pistol with its dmg per ammo and stock.

 

[Momock]

tbh there were tons of ammo in original RE2.

I'm playing it tight now for the first time (just finished the LeonA/ClaireB route) and I can confirm. With Claire I had a machine gun and an electric-shock-thing that I never used, they just collected dust in the save rooms. And I still had a ton of ammo for my other weapons. To be fair I was tight on ammo at some point with Leon (0 pistol bullets, had to ruse rely on the shotgun only) but it lasted 15 minutes and I was more than full again pretty quick.

 

[Tacgnol]

tbh there were tons of ammo in original RE2.

I'm playing it tight now for the first time (just finished the LeonA/ClaireB route) and I can confirm. With Claire I had a machine gun and an electric-shock-thing that I never used, they just collected dust in the save rooms. And I still had a ton of ammo for my other weapons. To be fair I was tight on ammo at some point with Leon (0 pistol bullets, had to ruse rely on the shotgun only) but it lasted 15 minutes and I was more than full again pretty quick.

Yeah RE2 had a lot of ammo in Mid/Late game.

In a relatively conservative Leon playthrough you can end the game with 60+ rounds for the magnum and at least the same for the shotgun.

Claire isn't much different with grenade rounds.

 

[Cross]

Resident Evil 4 is possibly the greatest third person shooter of all time.

On a gameplay level Resident Evil 6 destroys it. The stamina system that ties into things like the updated melee system, counter moves, quick shots, and the slide kick is a welcome improvement over what was previously there.

Too bad that for all those intricate mechanics, it feels completely awful to actually play, due to the claustrophobic over the shoulder view where your character takes up half the screen, the constant perspective switches and the absurdly low FOV. Oh, and the quick time events.

There's a good reason why Capcom's other franchises (Dead Rising, Dragon's Dogma, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, Lost Planet) all use a zoomed out third person camera.

 

[Deflowerer]

Lel, what. RE6 gameplay is fantastic, although it's different enough from RE4 that I wouldn't really compare the two in that department directly. What it largely fails on is level design and encounter design (although the enemy variety is fantastic) to force you to take the maximum of those mechanics. I'd say it's definitely underrated though, and judging from Youtube videos of how retardedly I've seen other play it, I am not surprised. Unfortunately, an action horror shooter with those mechanics refined further, great pacing and solid level design could become GOAT. Alas, the lackluster performance of RE6 probably has sunk those hopes.

Also, FOV isn't really a problem post-launch iirc.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Guys, no. The only good thing about RE6 is Helena's booty.

 

[Okagron]

Too bad that for all those intricate mechanics, it feels completely awful to actually play, due to the claustrophobic over the shoulder view where your character takes up half the screen, the constant perspective switches and the absurdly low FOV. Oh, and the quick time events.

This is one of the main reasons why i stopped playing RE 6, the camera is way too close to the character. At times due to the frantic action i would start feel noxious and when i start to feel sick because of a game, i think it's high time to stop playing.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Resident Evil 4 is possibly the greatest third person shooter of all time.

On a gameplay level Resident Evil 6 destroys it. The stamina system that ties into things like the updated melee system, counter moves, quick shots, and the slide kick is a welcome improvement over what was previously there.

Too bad that for all those intricate mechanics, it feels completely awful to actually play, due to the claustrophobic over the shoulder view where your character takes up half the screen, the constant perspective switches and the absurdly low FOV. Oh, and the quick time events.

There's a good reason why Capcom's other franchises (Dead Rising, Dragon's Dogma, Monster Hunter, Devil May Cry, Lost Planet) all use a zoomed out third person camera.

You can turn off QTEs if you want, and you can adjust the camera where what you're talking about isn't a problem. The camera hasn't been a problem since like two months after it originally came out in 2012, and the PC version was released the next calendar year so I'm guessing camera issues were never a problem there.

 

[DalekFlay]

Every weapon gets a unique upgrade unlocked once all other upgrades are done. "Crappy" starting pistol gets a huge critical boost. I cannot decide whether I prefer starting shotgun or "best" one in the game Striker. TMP is one of early weapons and is one of its kind - there's never a reason not to keep it. Weapons are meant to be unique and add to replayability. Though obviously Red9 is objectively a better weapon than starting pistol with its dmg per ammo and stock.

Thanks to you and others for informative posts about the weapons. Like I said it was mainly the controls I hated, but this does take the edge off a possible replay someday (which I was already planning on). I actually own RE4-6 on Steam because I'm an asshat who throws money to the wolves, so it'll happen at some point. Whether that's tomorrow or on my deathbed, who knows.

 

[Alienman]

Been replaying RE 2 (on the ps2) and I really hope they keep the great level design in the remake. It actually reminds me about Dark Souls, how everything is interlinked with shortcuts and what not, and if you have to do some backtracking the game often surprises you with new monsters and other stuff. Really impressive, much cooler than I remembered how it was and the story is enjoyable.

 

[Invictus]

Been replaying RE 2 (on the ps2) and I really hope they keep the great level design in the remake. It actually reminds me about Dark Souls, how everything is interlinked with shortcuts and what not, and if you have to do some backtracking the game often surprises you with new monsters and other stuff. Really impressive, much cooler than I remembered how it was and the story is enjoyable.

Funny how some games you might remember them beign awesome and replaying them when you are older feels so underwhelming, yet the truly great games surprise us not only how well they hold up but how simply awesome they truly are

 

[Wunderbar]

Guys, no. The only good thing about RE6 is Ada's booty.

ftfy

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Totally dude... I'm cruising on a high arcing nostalgia wave right now. The directing of those still shots was like a maestro guiding an orchestra, able to make pace changes at will.

Make it feel confined and cramped, so as a player I could really feel the room closing in on me, with all danger implied.

But most of all, it's the attention to detail, presented in such a way to make each shot real, lived in. And it's right there, like a painting, meticulously presented so I can take time to absorb every detail and let the brain chemistry generate the feels.

With action oriented, over the shoulder gameplay like RE5, everything but the player and enemies becomes a blur. Depth of field at a really close range. And there's no fear, just spray and pray with an occasional successful jump scare.

What I liked about old RE's is that you had to crack yourself and decide you want to fight, or brave an area where there could be a fight, once the actual fight starts, it can go either way and running is very much under the "fuck that!" option. Unless it's a surprise. It's implied from every angle.

Resident Evil 4 was probably the only time I felt any tension in a Resident Evil game, and that's over the shoulder. All the other games you could safely retreat to the inventory screen to do thing like heal and reload your weapon, which removed a lot of the danger of enemies, which removes the danger of lost progress...which is really about the only "fear" a game can capture. Resident Evil 4 didn't allow you to do that, you had to watch your ammo and reload in realtime, and fucking up and created a situation where enemies are bearing down on you while reloaded created a tension the series had never had before.

Before that Resident Evil (and this is true of most other horror games too) operated on the level of a virtual funhouse, which doesn't quite work as well as a actual funhouse given its virtual, but maybe might startle you once.

 

[Momock]

Meh, reloading isn't the biggest thing that makes combat tense. Repositioning your tank character is, and the classic REs made this too. The main source of tension in general was the resource/inventory management anyway, and RE4 throw it almost integrally out the window, so...

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Meh, reloading isn't the biggest thing that makes combat tense. Repositioning your tank character is, and the classic REs made this too. The main source of tension in general was the resource/inventory management anyway, and RE4 throw it almost integrally out the window, so...

Resource and inventory management in Resident Evil games before RE4, for me anyways, was a thing in a grand total of one game; and that was Resident Evil on the Sega Saturn. Outside of that one, and that one version of the first Resident Evil, I've never had ammo problems of any kind in another RE game until funnily enough I played Chris's campaign in RE6. And that can mostly be chalked up to buying Resident Evil on release without knowing anything about it, and not knowing shooting things wasn't always the best option; because running out of ammo ceased to be a problem fairly quickly. (Again, funnily enough in RE6 me running out of ammo and running low on ammo with Chris also happened because I wasn't really playing the game right and hadn't fully learned shooting things wasn't always the best option) By RE2 they're throwing tons of ammo at you and the fucking thing has become an action game. I'd also say that resource and inventory management are far more interesting aspects of the game in RE4 than any other Resident Evil game. Beyond the first Resident Evil needing to really think about inventory management isn't much of a thing either, as later games have areas that are far more linear than the mansion.

It'd probably be better to say that combat in general in RE4 is the source of tension, which is a combination of things like repositioning your character, not being able to move while you're aiming, and having to reload weapons in realtime. It's all stuff that works to allow enemies to advance on you while you're still, while making you think where to move to next. Although I think having to reload in realtime would be the biggest source of creating that tension, as it was never something I felt in previous RE games where I had the safety of the inventory screen to reloaded instantly. Removing the ability for the player to shoot a enemy, reloaded in a paused state, and come out of that state and shoot the enemy more goes a long way to making enemy encounters more tense. I never had problems with the tank controls beyond the first time I originally played Resident Evil. Outside of the first few moments I first played the first game running around zombies and other stuff wasn't something I'd really call tense or difficult.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Resource management ≠ scarceness of ammo and health items.

In classic Resident evil games, along with other series like Silent hill or even Project zero, you tend to have enough resource items to complete the game comfortably if you know what you're doing, even in the hardest modes. Thing is, they're games where you can literally fuck up your playtrhough if you waste those items, like it happened to me in RE3 where I couldn't kill Nemesis in the clock tower fight. Because they require you to use your resources ideally and to explore every single corner of each area to find ammo or health. Because resources are not scarce but limited. Games like RE3 included systems like the ammo crafting and stuff (Which will be in RE2 remake), adding depth to the thing (You must bet what kind of ammo suits best depeding the situation. Maybe expending A gunpowder for pistol ammo, maybe B for shotgun, maybe saving A and B for making C and then magnum ammo, or maybe going for grenades cartridges for the grenade launcher). RE4 is a game where you kill an enemy and then he drops you shotgun cartridges (I think the enemy ammo drops in that game are determined by the weapons you're using most or something like that but whatever), is a game where you can buy two aid medic sprays for the seller every time you visit him. Tension in that game can come for every way but not from resource management. Because the game wil always adapt the enemy drops and even the number of enemies of the scenario and what type they're.

 

[Adon]

Resource and inventory management in Resident Evil games before RE4, for me anyways, was a thing in a grand total of one game; and that was Resident Evil on the Sega Saturn. Outside of that one, and that one version of the first Resident Evil, I've never had ammo problems of any kind in another RE game until funnily enough I played Chris's campaign in RE6.

Like TheHeroOfTime mentioned, if you know what you're doing, you're always going to have enough; and if you're good at it, you're going to end up with an overabundance of ammo. In general, the games aren't hard once you know what you're doing. Much like how the Souls game get easier if you learn the systems properly -- i.e. one of your greatest weapons is patience.

By RE2 they're throwing tons of ammo at you and the fucking thing has become an action game. I'd also say that resource and inventory management are far more interesting aspects of the game in RE4 than any other Resident Evil game. Beyond the first Resident Evil needing to really think about inventory management isn't much of a thing either, as later games have areas that are far more linear than the mansion.

Really? Even more so than 0? I disagree. A game that forces you to drop any items that you can't carry with you because there is no inventory box, and that you have to think ahead of time of the best places to drop them (and that's really after you realize you might have to go back for certain items you've dropped) is less interesting than the tetris mini-game inventory management from RE4? The same game where if you know what you're doing you can immediately sell the pistol to get the TMP because it's a better weapon if you're melee-ing enemies, and suplexing them? And this is not me even taking into account that one difficulty in REmake where items aren't shared between inventory boxes. TheHeroOfTime already covered RE3.

RE4 throws you a ton of ammo so you never really have to think about ammunition. I mean sure, you decide which weapons you want to use and upgrade, but they're all just as viable one way or another. I've gotten close to running out of ammo on RE4 on Professional like once throughout a playthrough, and even then I never worried about it because sure enough they'll throw more at me.

You're right about the later games being more linear than RE1 so maximizing your pathing isn't as pertinent in the sequels, but it's still there regardless. You still think about which areas you revisit the most and kill the enemies in those areas. If you only visit a room once and there's a few/single enemy in there, you don't waste your ammo; just get your shit and get out.

RE3 is particularly weak about this, but makes up for it in different ways with Nemesis, and the gun powder. Are classic RE games particularly hard about this? No, but it's another layer of resource management that's completely absent from RE4.

RE4 is a damn good action game, but that's the only thing it's better at than classic RE games.

It'd probably be better to say that combat in general in RE4 is the source of tension, which is a combination of things like repositioning your character, not being able to move while you're aiming, and having to reload weapons in realtime. It's all stuff that works to allow enemies to advance on you while you're still, while making you think where to move to next. Although I think having to reload in realtime would be the biggest source of creating that tension, as it was never something I felt in previous RE games where I had the safety of the inventory screen to reloaded instantly. Removing the ability for the player to shoot a enemy, reloaded in a paused state, and come out of that state and shoot the enemy more goes a long way to making enemy encounters more tense. I never had problems with the tank controls beyond the first time I originally played Resident Evil. Outside of the first few moments I first played the first game running around zombies and other stuff wasn't something I'd really call tense or difficult.

Slightly change your first sentence you're basically describing the old RE games; you have to reposition your characters if you're shooting multiple enemies (in smaller areas than RE4), can't move while aiming/shooting, and you're limited on resources. Not to mention that boss fights are far more tense than RE4.

I never felt any tension in having to reload a weapon in RE4. The game has so many different ways to kill enemies, and the knife is really strong, that simply shooting most of them dead -- especially in the beginning -- is something I rarely do. Only exceptions are certain enemies like the chainsaw guys.

 

[Master]

Its somewhat hard if you never use the knife.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Resource management ≠ scarceness of ammo and health items.

In classic Resident evil games, along with other series like Silent hill or even Project zero, you tend to have enough resource items to complete the game comfortably if you know what you're doing, even in the hardest modes. Thing is, they're games where you can literally fuck up your playtrhough if you waste those items, like it happened to me in RE3 where I couldn't kill Nemesis in the clock tower fight. Because they require you to use your resources ideally and to explore every single corner of each area to find ammo or health. Because resources are not scarce but limited. Games like RE3 included systems like the ammo crafting and stuff (Which will be in RE2 remake), adding depth to the thing (You must bet what kind of ammo suits best depeding the situation. Maybe expending A gunpowder for pistol ammo, maybe B for shotgun, maybe saving A and B for making C and then magnum ammo, or maybe going for grenades cartridges for the grenade launcher). RE4 is a game where you kill an enemy and then he drops you shotgun cartridges (I think the enemy ammo drops in that game are determined by the weapons you're using most or something like that but whatever), is a game where you can buy two aid medic sprays for the seller every time you visit him. Tension in that game can come for every way but not from resource management. Because the game wil always adapt the enemy drops and even the number of enemies of the scenario and what type they're.

I didn't say they were the same. I said ammo management was only a thing in Resident Evil, and specifically one version of it. I also said that resource management wasn't a thing outside of the first game as well. The mansion isn't linear like later game areas, so thinking about what you're actually carrying around is something you've got to do their (especially if you're playing Chris) but it's not really a thing in later games outside of Code Veronica from what I remember. And it's not even bad in Code Veronica.

I didn't say RE4 derives tension from ammo management or resource management, so I've no idea why you're going on about that. I did say RE4 has more interesting resource management, as that game actually has an inventory that soon becomes something you have to think about while playing. I also said I never found the things Momock brought up to be sources of tension at all, IE, I don't think there's tension in resource management...not even in the one game I thought that was a thing that actually had to be thought about. Lost progress isn't really a thing that matters in those old RE games, you could spend hours figuring shit out, die, and get back to where you died in minutes. That first game only takes an hour to beat once you know what you're doing. Was playing Code Veronica on Dreamcast before I got a VMU, which meant I had to start over if I died, which didn't happen much, and that game takes an hour to get to the end too.

 

[Volrath]

RE4 was a shit game. Nothing more has to be said about it.

 

[Ash]

Wrong. Play it again and actually play it for more than 20 mins, and drop expectations set by the older RE games or other shooters.

What makes it gud: Satisfying weapons. Diverse, fun to interact with AI. Good level design. Fun secrets. Mercenaries. Good weapon upgrade system. DX/SS2-tier inventory. fun scripted events. Awesome boss fights. Every room they throw something different at you, no one challenge is the same. Even has some horror moments despite claims to the contrary (regenerators!). Is it a good Resident Evil game? Probably not. Is it a good game? Absolutely.

Yeah it's an action shooter where you can't crouch or jump, or even move while aiming, which may seem preposterous, but it really makes up for that in other ways. I highly doubt this remake will be even half the game it is, despite taking obvious inspiration from it. But I doubt it will be half the game RE2 is either.