Wadjet Eye Primordia - A Point and Click Adventure - Now Available

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I have a story related question:

Spoiler

What actually killed all the humans in Metropol? Because the decoded chip made it look like Horus self destructed before completing its objective.

You must have missed something... It is explained directly in game (if you play right of course).

MRY, make sure to let us know about your next project, unless it's a shitty FPS of course

 

[evdk]

I have a story related question:

Spoiler

What actually killed all the humans in Metropol? Because the decoded chip made it look like Horus self destructed before completing its objective.

You must have missed something... It is explained directly in game (if you play right of course).

Couldn't you just tell me? I'm a big boy, I can take the spoilers.

 

[toro]

I have a story related question:

Spoiler

What actually killed all the humans in Metropol? Because the decoded chip made it look like Horus self destructed before completing its objective.

You must have missed something... It is explained directly in game (if you play right of course).

Couldn't you just tell me? I'm a big boy, I can take the spoilers.

Spoiler

Metromind

 

[evdk]

I have a story related question:

Spoiler

What actually killed all the humans in Metropol? Because the decoded chip made it look like Horus self destructed before completing its objective.

You must have missed something... It is explained directly in game (if you play right of course).

Couldn't you just tell me? I'm a big boy, I can take the spoilers.

Spoiler

Metromind

Guessed that myself, but I really do not remember seeing it anywhere in the game.

 

[toro]

I have a story related question:

Spoiler

What actually killed all the humans in Metropol? Because the decoded chip made it look like Horus self destructed before completing its objective.

You must have missed something... It is explained directly in game (if you play right of course).

Couldn't you just tell me? I'm a big boy, I can take the spoilers.

Spoiler

Metromind

Guessed that myself, but I really do not remember seeing it anywhere in the game.

Spoiler

When you are inside of Goliath:

• Disable up to three of the monitors with the PLASMA TORCH to try and trap Gamma in the last monitor. However, he keeps moving around so you could kill him if you accidentally destroy the monitor in which he is hiding. Thus, there are two ways in which this can play out:
• 1) If you destroy the three monitors that Gamma is not hiding in, you will trap him. You can then go and tell Alpha and Beta that Gamma is trapped. When you leave, Goliath will wake up and give you a DECRYPTION MODULE. You will also get the Defragmented achievement. To make sure this happens you can best come back later once you have the mobile sensor. (see below under “The Dome”). Use the energy sensor on the monitors to find one that says it’s not detecting any energy. Then quickly destroy that monitor, and so on until there is only one left.
• 2) If you accidentally destroy the monitor in which Gamma is hiding, you shut down the whole system and kill Goliath. You will get the Call Me David achievement, but you won’t get the decryption module. You will be able to complete the game without it, but you’ll only be able to play the “alternative” endings and miss out on information regarding Horatio’s past.
• In both scenarios you will find out that Horatio’s real name is Horus when you leave the scene, which is important for the next part of the game.

Basically the decryption module will allow you to "decrypt" your past towards the end of the game. And then you can ask some Metromind some question before the end.

 

[MRY]

Without getting the actual dialogue, there's not much to it. If you want to see how it plays out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CgBJnipajwo#t=1754s

 

[Blaine]

I found this puzzle a bit aggravating:

Spoiler

After beating Gamma's "game" multiple times (without the power sensor; I only figured that out later) and realizing it would never end, I figured I'd use the plasma torch to remove the monitor he was hiding in from the wall and trap him that way. Instead, you can only destroy it. Given the fuzzy adventure game logic surrounding the entire Goliath series of puzzles, there's no concrete way to know which method is the best until you actually try, nor can you be sure whether destroying Gamma was the "wrong" thing to do after the fact, since generally you can't "mess up" in old-school adventure games without getting a game over.

Not a big deal, though.

 

[ironyuri]

I found this puzzle a bit aggravating:

Spoiler

After beating Gamma's "game" multiple times (without the power sensor; I only figured that out later) and realizing it would never end, I figured I'd use the plasma torch to remove the monitor he was hiding in from the wall and trap him that way. Instead, you can only destroy it. Given the fuzzy adventure game logic surrounding the entire Goliath series of puzzles, there's no concrete way to know which method is the best until you actually try, nor can you be sure whether destroying Gamma was the "wrong" thing to do after the fact, since generally you can't "mess up" in old-school adventure games without getting a game over.

Not a big deal, though.

Spoiler

You can destroy the monitors he's NOT hiding in and trap him in one alone.

 

[Blaine]

Yeah, I figured that part out, in case I wasn't clear. To elaborate:

Spoiler

It's that fuzzy adventure game logic I'm referring to. There's no way to make an informed decision without knowing beforehand exactly what will happen when you use the torch on one of the screens. I assumed I'd be able to use the torch to cut the monitor containing Gamma out of the wall intact, and then perhaps use the monitor to transfer him into the little robot, or deliver the monitor to Alpha and Beta. Instead, you can only destroy the monitors with the torch. Once you know that, it makes perfect sense, but there's no way to know without taking the plunge.

 

[1451]

In my opinion some of the puzzles are illogical. For example, while being in desert

Spoiler

and trying to seal goliath's nostrils, why not cut a second thumb instead of using the rug? Or when trying to destroy the door, why should we make a sticky bomb instead of leaving it near the door and passing through a lower hole?
Or why would the explosion prefix should be 6? The small bomb you find has no connection to goliath, yet one of his robots knew the correct number to make the bomb explode?

I could mention even more cases of "strange" puzzles, but I don't think it would be necessary.

 

[Blaine]

1451:

Spoiler

I agree that the Goliath entry puzzle is slightly illogical, although the overall idea (plug the nostrils to open the mouth) is fairly obvious. There are a couple of potential explanations, though. Horatio doesn't want to damage the robot more than absolutely necessary, and was actually checking for a power cable, not an item with which to plug a nostril. So that single fingertip is an incidental "bonus" within the context of the story. It's also a subtle nose-picking joke, which is why the tip fit into the nose so perfectly. That leads me to the second potential explanation: Perhaps the other fingertips would be too small to stay in place.

I completely agree on the sticky bomb thing. Blowing a hole lower in the door should have worked, and even very sticky grease shouldn't be nearly strong enough to hold a heavy little bomblet in place on a vertical surface, presuming the gravity is as strong as Earth's. Super glue might not even be enough to affix corroded metal to curved metal. Still, at least you get a special hint that indicates you're close to the solution if you try to do it without the grease ("it would just roll off"). The grease was unnecessary.

As for the bomblet, it was probably Goliath's weapon to begin with, which perfectly explains why they had the detonation prefix.

 

[MaskedMan]

Well a lot of adventure games work like this, it's not so much about finding the best solution to puzzles as finding the solution the devs want. At least in this game you have Crispin to point you in the right direction if you can't figure it out/don't have enough info, and some alternate solutions to puzzles if you fuck up.

Spoiler

The bomb came from Goliath, he fired the cluster rocket at the Horus craft but Horus managed to evade it or some shit so it missed.

 

[1451]

Thanks Blaine , your explanation for the nose is quite reasonable. As for the bomb, it didn't cross my mind that it could actually belong to the robot.

Leaving the puzzle solving aside for a moment, I'd like to comment on the world and story for a bit.

Spoiler

When I arrived at Metropol, I could not ignore the whole anti evolution, pro creationism arguments(the evil female computer spreading lies about the creation of robots).
So according to the game, we should abolish evolution(progress in game) and accept creationism? As if controlling a religious robot was not enough, I also had to gobble zealots propaganda.

 

[MRY]

Re: the finger:

Spoiler

Horatio specifically says that fingertip has a corroded band around it. He's unable to cut anything else on Goliath because the metal is too armored or whatever.

Re: the bomb

Spoiler

Apparently unbeknownst to me, the publisher cut the following line of dialogue. That played during the diagnostic sequence. Sigh.
WEAPONS SYSTEM: Four of five cluster bombs remaining; launch tubes obstructed; energy weapons obstructed; spin-blades jammed; weapons system deemed inoperative.

Re: evolution

Spoiler

The game speaks for itself, so it's a little awkward to defend it, but I'm not sure where you got the idea that the game was endorsing a religion that is manifestly inaccurate. Anyway, I posted a response along these lines on the GOG forum, for what it's worth.

 

[1451]

Regarding the evolution argument, I read the response you wrote on GOG. It seems I misinterpreted this whole issue. Thank you for answering.

 

[MRY]

I think your interpretation is pretty legitimate within the "text" of the game. I just didn't want to be turning people off for the wrong reasons!

 

[ironyuri]

I think your interpretation is pretty legitimate within the "text" of the game. I just didn't want to be turning people off for the wrong reasons!

Finished the game 2 days ago, enjoyed it immensely. Considered reviewing it but I have far too much work on my hands right now, and a pre-Christmas trip coming up.

I have to say, the story was very well down, reminded me of a number of things. I liked it from a narrative stand point in that it basically mirrored the Fallout: New Vegas narrative: you begin with the death of the PC, who loses something to his killer. You have to track the killer down to the big city only to find yourself engaged in something much larger then the personal journey. You did it very well.

The character had a lot of pathos, and the setting was excellent. I actually wish someone would make an RPG in the setting, because just imagine the possibilities of a robot protagonist. Code and programming changes, or body modification offer a PC limitless possibilities of development and character progress. But regardless, the setting was magnificent. I liked the world without humans, yet the very human characteristics of the bots.

There was a bit of Nausicaa (the Miyazaki film) in there, the giant warriors scorching the earth, the onset of social breakdown and apocalypse. Very well adapted post-apoc tropes.

Without hyperbole, I can say it's objectively the best game I've played in 2012. I enjoyed Sleeping Dogs immensely as a fun open world arcadey game, but as far as story, characters, setting etc go, Primordia is the best of the year for me. It was a release which basically saved the year, as far as I'm concerned.

I also liked the puzzles, all very logical with some divergent paths, ie: Gamma, allowing for interesting endings. Most all of them were solved without the usual inane adventure game logic that brought us the cat hair moustache, and were straightforward in a cryptic way. Crispin being around to help was good too, though. I did fall back on him a few times for hints.

 

[1451]

Another interesting observation I made were the forms of the robots. Some robots were humanoid(especially the ones crucial to the main story), while others looked more like typical machines. Was there a reason behind that?

 

[evdk]

Re: the bomb

Spoiler

Apparently unbeknownst to me, the publisher cut the following line of dialogue. That played during the diagnostic sequence. Sigh.
WEAPONS SYSTEM: Four of five cluster bombs remaining; launch tubes obstructed; energy weapons obstructed; spin-blades jammed; weapons system deemed inoperative.

Spoiler

The part about an incoming cluster bomb is left intact in the decoded Horus flight record though.

 

[ironyuri]

Another interesting observation I made were the forms of the robots. Some robots were humanoid(especially the ones crucial to the main story), while others looked more like typical machines. Was there a reason behind that?

Spoiler

Clarity/Charity were, Horatio is, Leo Steeplebuilt sort of is.

S.C.R.A.P.E.R., MetroMind, Arbiter, Primer, Factor, Alpha/Beta/Gamma, Ever-Faithful, 187, Memento Moribuilt/Memorius are not strictly "humanoid." Apart from his personality, Crispin isn't particularly humanoid either.

The protagonist is probably humanoid because I doubt players would identify with a protag rattling off his dialogue in binary.

Also, if you consider the narrative of the game, man is made in the image of god, machine is made in the image of man, and given the designation of his creator Manbuilt, Nullbuilt, Arbiterbuilt. So of course, for Horatio who believes himself to be an apostle of "Man," it may be that he chose the form of "Man."

My speculation was that Horatio would have been an AI controlling the Horus airship, who after it was destroyed, constructed a small mobile robot into which it could upload its personality to repair and maintain the ship, that Horatio would have been the body piloting the ship. I'd have to read through the data file again.

Anyway, it makes sense from both a narrative perspective and a gameplay perspective for them to be humanoid. You also see the android/dead human outside the bunker in the space-suit type thing when you get the radio transmitter. Horatio comments that it looks like a primitive robot/android. So humans probably constructed their earliest robots in their own image to begin with.

 

[evdk]

You also see the android/dead human outside the bunker in the space-suit type thing when you get the radio transmitter. Horatio comments that it looks like a primitive robot/android. So humans probably constructed their earliest robots in their own image to begin with.

I took that to mean that for all his devotion Horatio does not actually know what a human looks like, so he has written off an obviously human corpse as a primitive robot.

 

[MRY]

@ ironyuri -- Any chance I can persuade you to put that text behind a spoiler tag?

@ evdk -- There's an internal (i.e., game-universe logic) and an external (i.e., my preferences, my goals) explanation for why they look human. The internal explanation is that the humans in Primordia built robots to look like them when it was emotionally appropriate for them to do so: so robots meant to act in human-like functions often had human-like appearances. (We do the same thing in our world.) Likewise, robots built robots in order to appropriate human symbolism. Clarity is built as a woman because she's supposed to conjure the image of Justice, something that mattered to Arbiter no less than it does to us.

From my standpoint, I wanted to differentiate classes of robots. The more humanoid a robot looks, the more humanlike it tends to be. The more alien it looks, the more alien it acts. The huge robots are meant to be almost like Greek Gods: Factor being the Mulciber (or Hephaestus) depicted by Milton in Paradise Lost. Crispin doesn't quite fit this mold, but he's an exception to the rule: he's the floating companion archetype (Morte, Cupid, Orko, Huginn and Munnin, Zyzzyx from Sacrifice, Cedric, Crow from TLJ, Iago from Aladdin, etc.). He's still human enough -- almost a floating head -- but his physical shortcomings dramatize his role as a someone who cannot really directly act to change the course of events. He observes, comments, snarks, etc. Having Horatio humanoid was important from a player-identification standpoint; same with Clarity. The shells had to be humanoid to evoke zombies and to drive home the "this could be Horatio or Clarity" aspect that zombies entail. At the same time, having Scraper appear mechanical was meant to emphasize his subhuman (or abhuman?) aspect.

There are certain exceptions to the rule (like the gray robot at the bar) that are explicable just as Vic's artistic preferences. Factotum's extremely unusual appearance is just a matter of repurposing a sprite near the end of development.

Re: the skeleton: evdk's explanation is the one I intended, but either one is a fair reading.

 

[ironyuri]

Spoiler'd sorry, I forgot about that.

Ps. Authorial intent, how does that work?

MRY don't you know Derrida killed the author. You're supposed to be dead bro, ffs. FFS. r00fles.

 

[MRY]

Ironyuri -- That's why I always say that players' interpretations are valid and the game speaks for itself. Still, I figure some people are still interested from an anthropological standpoint with what I was thinking!

 

[made]

Just finished it. Adventure GOTY 2012 for sure. And I'm not saying this just because it's the only adventure I actually finished this year. :D

Excellent audiovisuals. Unique setting. Good writing, never boring. I was quite impressed that Ever Faithful didn't slip up once in all of his dialogue. Crispin's bickering was too much, though, and rarely funny, but I guess you could mark that as a success. Some very touching moments (518, 518...) Multiple, satisfying endings. Didn't like that MM spelled out H's original purpose in the end; would have preferred it to be left for the player to piece together by himself (or not). Perhaps a bit short and on the easy side, but not a complete walk in the park either, and judging by the achievements I missed quite a bit of the optional/hidden stuff.

Very impressive effort for a 10 dollar game in 2012. Had this come out 20 years ago it would be considered one of the classics today.