POLL: Is your general sentiment towards POE negative or positive?

[Athelas]

Of course I agree. But to be honest, I didn't even play the disappointing kickstarter areas (Od Nua, Stronghold, second city). I only made it as far as the dungeon where the madman is and then decided it was time to quit because up to that point, there really seemed to be nothing good about the game at all that made it worth playing. And the combat system - terrible system design and high level mechanics decisions, clusterfuck implementation, zero creativity or effort in encounter design, and absolutely no rewards at all - seriously, I can't think of any way that it could have actually been worse, and it made up 95% of the game. They essentially managed to create the worst possible combat a 2D RPG could have, which I suppose could be considered an achievement in itself.

The quests up to that point were essentially just fedex quests. The music was awful and the only good track was the battle music that ripped off BG2. The plot and setting were silly and boring (Jesus fucking Christ how many times can you keep hearing about SOUL SEOUL SOWL SAUL over and over again?). The first town had basically not a single NPC that wasn't there to push quests or the main plot, everyone was just a stationary quest dispenser. Compare this to games like PST where there were tons of characters there just to flesh out the world and setting. There was nothing to explore or discover, no special character or item in some hidden nook or cranny, most buildings couldn't even be entered. POE felt dead. Right after the starting dungeon, you witness some sort of ritual by a gigantic soul machine in which you are dumped with a lot of meaningless words. Afterwards? That massive machine just turns into background scenery. There's nothing for you to investigate, nothing for you to do, except just pick up a few things and move on to the next uninspired "area" which in this game means some nice background art superimposed with a random group of trash mobs at every corner.

You don't seem to have understood my post in the slightest, yet somehow you managed to demonstrate my point for me. Yes, having all those Kickstarter stretch goals to deal with obviously means the in-game content would suffer, leaving less room for experimenting with things like quest design and NPC's. If PoE had been an unpolished, out-of-scope failure, this wouldn't have boded well for the future of Kickstarter.

They essentially managed to create the worst possible combat a 2D RPG could have, which I suppose could be considered an achievement in itself.

There are 2d rpg's with worse combat (in fact, they make up a majority of the Codex top 10 RPG's of all time).

Incidentally, all of them come from the same people who brought us PoE.

 

[Volrath]

Poll results are pretty funny.

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[KK1001]

Negative. While this sentiment is not the Codex Plurality™ yet, I think it will be as the months go by. There just isn't much to really get out of the game. I found myself compelled to complete it, but the fact that it was something of a chore on my first playthrough is pretty telling.

People have written at length about the problems with the game, so I won't bore you with my take on the specifics.

The game basically breaks down into:

50% negative (encounter design, combat, itemization)

35% ambivalent (dungeon design, character customization, plot, the writing)

15% positive (art, quest design, reactivity)

I would say that PoE was a good start, but given the systems and the general lackadaisical attitude at Obsidian, I think it is all irreversibly fucked. I don't think they have the will to properly itemize or design interesting encounters, and Sawyer's system is baked in.

 

[Carrion]

Positive. I was expecting Obsidian to fall flat on their asses, either release a game of really limited scope (think of Shadowrun) or run out of time and money and put out another KotOR2 with tons of rushed or even unfinished content. Instead, the game is huge but still one of Obsidian's most consistent ones so far (in before "consistent because it's all shit lol"), and it manages to retain its quality until the end, actually even improving in the final third.

I never had high hopes for the mechanics in this game, and the character system, skills and talents are pretty much what I expected. Encounter design is even notably worse than I had hoped, and it is by far my biggest complaint about the game. It's pretty worrying if you can easily name every single one of the interesting encounters (Raedric, Adra Dragon, end boss) in a game that has you fighting hundres of times. Difficulty curve plays a part as well, because after Act I you can just mow through everything with minimal effort, only using spells, traps and special abilities because you feel like that's something you're supposed to do, even though it isn't really even required. The itemization doesn't help make things any more interesting as there are few interesting things to find.

For me the good outweighs the bad, though. The setting won me over during the course of the game, even though I was incredibly uninterested in it based on their Kickstarter updates and even the first couple of hours of the game. It is fairly generic and bland for my tastes, not exactly the type of fantasy I like, but the setting is actually well-crafted and manages to avoid most of the pitfalls and clichés of generic fantasy settings and actually comes off as fairly original in some parts. The writing varies from pretty bad to MCA goodness, and even though it's by no means the best Obsidian have done, it does manage to keep you invested, and especially the companions are good. Each area is gorgeous and obviously crafted with care, which makes you want to see what lies ahead. The quests are lots of fun, with one or two truly excellent ones in the mix. There are a couple of stinkers as well, but the vast majority of quests offer multiple outcomes, lots of roleplaying options and the occasional alternative way of finishing them, even though most of them are linear in structure and you only get to make a choice at the end. It's a shame that there aren't more in-game consequences to these choices, but if you use Baldur's Gate as a reference point, PoE blows it out of the water.

Overall it's a solid game, which (like all Obsidian games) has terrible combat but redeems itself in other areas. Unlike Obsidian's best efforts it does lack that one thing that would truly stand out (like the quest design of New Vegas or the writing of MotB), which probably makes it harder to look past some of its shortcomings.

 

[Sòren]

it was okay....at least better than DA: Inquisition

The final versions that are in the game are the province of other narrative designers, and I would be uncomfortable taking credit for the final implementation of the two characters. "

yeah...i can see why he would be uncomfortable with that







grieving Mother was still the best NPC tho

 

[Surf Solar]

I got an assload full of work lately, only post on the dex inbetween rides with train etc. and only have time for 20-30 minutes of PoE each day. And yet I await eagerly the time each day I have to play the game, despite Sawyer and despite its flaws.

So I guess that makes it positive?

 

[Scruffy]

In a couple of weeks.

Can i ask you - without trying to be an edgy douche, I promise - if maybe your "newfound" knowledge of the process of making games made you "softer", and makes you see things from the perspective of those making the game, therefore having you cut them more slack than maybe a simple gamer would?

 

[Vault Dweller]

No. It's not like I'm some youtube celebrity whose opinion can make or break games. My opinion changes nothing so the very idea of me cutting Fargo or Obsidian some slack is kinda silly. What about 600 or 800 people who gave WL2 4/5 or 5/5 on the Codex? They too wanted to cut Fargo some slack?

Both WL2 and PoE are very flawed games but flawed doesn't mean bad. At the same time, the flaws rub different people different ways. I couldn't get past the flaws in D;OS, but I managed to do that just fine in MMX and WL2. I struggle with Pillars. It's not the kind of game you can't stop playing, but at the same time there are aspects that do make me want to keep playing, so that's something.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Positive with some reservations. Many complaints I completely don't get. For example "Too much exposition","bad/too verbose writing", "boring classes", "static combat due to engagement system", "life less city populated only by backer NPCs" and so on. Some of that stuff sounded convicing in theory but after playing for about 40 hours I have to say that my experience is completely different and it feels like many of those issues have been completely blown out of proportion.

A lot of complaints I do get. For me the biggest issues is encounter design and low difficulty. I'm some hours into Act II and the last time I had a challenging encounter was against Redrick (playing on hard). After that the difficulty curve takes a complete nosedive. I'm limiting the amount of sidequests in Defiance Bay now to avoid being overleveled. I wish there was a mod to half the amount of experience point you get.

 

[Shevek]

I think difficulty curve complaints are fair. I plan on using the 50% xp mod in my next PotD run to see if these issues arise more from excessive xp/player power rather than encounter design.

 

[Irenaeus]

Guess.

 

[Rostere]

Yeah, I have the exact same thoughts. My first fixes for correcting combat difficulty (systematic changes, so apart from obvious cheese like Paralyze scrolls) would be writing better AI and limiting XP gained by quests, possibly overhauling the XP system completely. The game has an odd difficulty curve. It's super easy in the beginning. Then in Act 1 you can really get in a mess if you try to take on overleveled content. Then in Act 2 you will basically hit max level if you do all the stuff.

IMO there should really be level scaling for main path. Not the tasteless type with simple scaling of stats and gear, but with realistic additions of enemies if you neglect to take care of Thaos and prefer waltzing around the countryside. I know some people don't like timers and such, but I think it would be a really nice addition to correct the difficulty.

 

[Infinitron]

IMO there should really be level scaling for main path.

This was actually planned at one point. Some backers bitched about it then, though I'm not sure that was the reason they ended up not implementing it.

 

[Rostere]

Yeah, I remember that. I typically hate level scaling myself. But that is just for reasons of realism and consistency. It doesn't make sense that if you wait for a while and/or gain some levels and come back to the same troll, you find he has way better stats. Or mithril chainmail and a +5 sword of obstructing visual effects.

Now what I would prefer would be a timer, which offers harder challenges when this can be justified by forces gathering during the time the PC could have dealt with them (and maybe even in-game cues to hint at this). Apparently there are a lot of people who become very butthurt in the face of timers, as MotB did show. I don't really think this can be expected from a patch or an expansion to fix, but maybe a mod or an EE 10 years in the future. XP levels could definitely be tweaked though.

 

[Irenaeus]

Now what I would prefer would be a timer

I like timers. If someone could implement a good timer, it would be awesome.

 

[Rostere]

Now what I would prefer would be a timer

I like timers. If someone could implement a good timer, it would be awesome.

Hell, it's about time.

 

[Immortal]

No. It's not like I'm some youtube celebrity whose opinion can make or break games. My opinion changes nothing so the very idea of me cutting Fargo or Obsidian some slack is kinda silly. What about 600 or 800 people who gave WL2 4/5 or 5/5 on the Codex? They too wanted to cut Fargo some slack?

Both WL2 and PoE are very flawed games but flawed doesn't mean bad. At the same time, the flaws rub different people different ways. I couldn't get past the flaws in D;OS, but I managed to do that just fine in MMX and WL2. I struggle with Pillars. It's not the kind of game you can't stop playing, but at the same time there are aspects that do make me want to keep playing, so that's something.

This tone is completely different from your shill job 3 weeks ago.. Did you change your mind or just actually play the game past the prologue finally?

Of course I agree. But to be honest, I didn't even play the disappointing kickstarter areas (Od Nua, Stronghold, second city). I only made it as far as the dungeon where the madman is and then decided it was time to quit because up to that point, there really seemed to be nothing good about the game at all that made it worth playing.

Gonna be honest.. Up to the fight with that guy, The game was pretty enjoyable for me.. It's actually all down hill from there..

 

[Lhynn]

Fuck level scaling.

 

[Shevek]

I wouldnt level scale. I would reduce non crit path quest/bounty xp to like 25% of what it is now (maybe even less) and leave the xp from crit path stuff alone (I would also remove trap/lock xp). That would make the power level difference from completionist playthroughs and rush play throughs not too different.

I would also tune up the encounters in the mid game a bit.

This is minor stuff though. I select-all attacked my way through BG1 with far greater ease than PoE. In BG1 all you needed to kill everything was longbows. Compared to that, PoE is basically Jagged Alliance 2.

 

[Lhynn]

I would make the character system not complete shit.

 

[Shevek]

Lol, the character system in PoE is way better than IE, man. Its not even close.

 

[Immortal]

Lol, the character system in PoE is way better than IE, man. Its not even close.

Why?

 

[Irenaeus]

Because.

 

[Shevek]

Lol, the character system in PoE is way better than IE, man. Its not even close.

Why?

Theres lots of reasons. In part, because you can make characters of the same class with different stat arrays (rather than just mashing reroll till you get 18s in everything) and have them contribute to the party legitimately differently. You can also choose from a fair amount of talents and class abilities (I do wish there were more) to craft characters that are different from eachother. I like the skills being available to all classes. I like how all classes contribute rather than having martial characters being little more than spectators to the magical fireworks show that other classes put on.

Theres more but whats the point? Folks that are dead set against hating the game will hate it. I think the character system is brilliant and I can't wait to see what they add to it in the xpac and PoE2.