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Piracy Discussion - Discuss!

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,851
It probably is. That is because it is free information and information should always be free.
Why?

Also, "public interest" entertainment = everything is free = no incentive to produce entertainment products, no innovation in technology, economics, or anything else. People can't be expected to spend thousands upon thousands of working hours simply out of the goodness of their own hearts.
This is a giant load of crap. People spend thousands of working hours because they feel the need to create something great. And they can create better works when they have access to more information of all kinds.

The roman empire didn't create aqueducts so one guy could be fucking rich.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
You can't patent "Happy Birthday", neither can you copyright the formula of penicillin.

Can.. can't. What can and can't be done is not the discussion. If you noticed this is a philosoraptoric discussion about what's good and what's bad.
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
You can't patent "Happy Birthday", neither can you copyright the formula of penicillin.

Can.. can't. What can and can't be done is not the discussion. If you noticed this is a philosoraptoric discussion about what's good and what's bad.

Hey, I didn't bring up penicillin, I merely pointed out that this isn't a copyright case (where I btw. agree that the protection is being extended far too long).
Patents have their own problems of course (although mainly due to stupid anglo-american understanding of patent-legislation), but they have the clear intention and potential to provide social benefit in the long run (again excluding the recent abominations of the anglo-american system).
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Meh, it's not so easy.
You still have an industry providing jobs for a substantial amount of people.
If no one pays, they don't have their jobs anymore.
 

TripJack

Hedonist
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
5,154
since all games being made today are multiplatform shit, nothing of value would be lost in that scenario
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
This is a giant load of crap. People spend thousands of working hours because they feel the need to create something great. And they can create better works when they have access to more information of all kinds.

The roman empire didn't create aqueducts so one guy could be fucking rich.
I don't think the creation of entertainment is comparable to the creation of basic infrastructure.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,851
You're right. People are FAR MORE willing to create entertainment for free. There's more free entertainment on the internet than you could experience in a lifetime. Games, stories, artwork.
 

Cassidy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
7,922
Location
Vault City
Sometimes pigs fly and a despicable corporation that deserves to go down publishes a good game. Sometimes a good game is tainted by a shitty DRM. Sometimes someone is just broke in an age of information replication beyond equal and wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Sometimes someone is a radical socialist that despises the very idea behind copyright laws, indifferent to the total collapse of a sector at first should everyone pirate instead of Day One Purchasing shit like idiot consumerist cattle.

Those are some of the reasons that justify piracy.

For consumerist cattle dumbfucks brainwashed by the Man's canned values, of course, it is evil, on the other hand. Arguing with such brainwashed zombies is a waste of time.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
But fear not, I am sure we'll develop better, more intrusive DRM so that good games still have a future! :salute:

The funny thing is that I don't buy games with restrictive DRM, and in the few cases I do (mandatory Steam registration) I do it when the price is way down.
I also buy a boxed version if there is one as I like actually owning a DVD in a box with a manual rather than just paying for a download.
 

Alchemist

Arcane
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
1,439
I create content for a living, but surprisingly, I don't have a hardline stance against piracy. For a few reasons:
  • I've done plenty of pirating in my time (especially when younger) - taping stuff off the TV / radio, copying albums / games from friends, downloading music / abandonware / emulator ROMs.
  • Fighting piracy is futile, unrealistic and impractical. It's a battle that can never be won.
  • DRM sucks and it always has. It only serves to annoy paying customers.
  • Copyright laws are old, busted and way too restrictive.
  • Piracy can have positive effects in gaining exposure / fan loyalty (as that Neil Gaiman video illustrates)
  • If you create high quality work - people will pay for it. Those with the money to do so will tend to support the creators they enjoy.
The one thing I don't quite understand are the people who never throw a dime at any of the entertainment / art that they enjoy (assuming they could afford it). If you simply can't afford it, then I can understand that position - I've been there. But when I have the money available and I discover something I really like, I happily pay for it - because I want to see more of that thing made. If no one ever contributes financially to creators - how is that a sustainable system? The only way that would work is if arts and entertainment were subsidized by the government. And in that case you'd still pay indirectly through taxes. Or if we lived in some Utopia where people freely gave food and lodging to the artists that enrich society. Sadly that's not our reality and never will be.

Would you work a 60-hour a week job with no compensation, making art and entertainment for the good of society? Where would you live and what would you eat?
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,851
Well, I wouldn't. But there's a reason 'starving artist' is a well known phrase. Many creative people create things because they feel compelled to do so, regardless of compensation. I suppose if I were absolutely driven, I'd go as far living in prison to say, write a book, if I had no other choice. Though it never really comes down to that. If you enjoy writing or drawing or whatever, it's something you do as a hobby. There's plenty of people who work full time jobs to make a living, and then spend 20+ hours a week on top of that writing fanfic or drawing art or comics or making music or whatever the fuck.

An arts + entertainment subsidy would certainly make a lot of sense. There are already huge subsidies for sports.

Kickstarter is a prime example of how things should ideally work though. The majority of funding for most kickstarters doesn't come from basic purchase level donations, but from the big spenders who are donating a ton of money because they have the disposable income and want to give an artist who's work they appreciate the freedom to spend more time on what is essentially a hobby. Other stuff like webcomics or streamers on twitch.tv work the same way. I threw some money at webcomics I liked back when I had money to spare, and I'd certainly be willing to do it again once my situation improves.
 

Shadowfang

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
2,040
Location
Road to Arnika
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
If you pirate a game that you would never, ever, pay for you aren't really harming the developers/publishers.
There isn't a real loss because you were never a potential buyer in the first place.
Forgive me for stating the obvious, but people are more willing to try things for free.
You might willing to taste a sample of cheese at the supermarket, but that doesn't mean you are a potential consumer of that product.

Before i pirate a game i ask myself this question, Would i pay for this game if it wasn't available through piracy? If the answer is yes, then i pay for it.
I would never pay for Fallout 3 if i just wanted to find out how bad it was, unless i ended up liking it... ahaha as if...

When i was younger i played many pirated games that i got through friends. I could only get so many games a year from my parents, so most
of my beloved classics were pirated. And now i cant look at today's industry without feeling a little guilty. How many studios, how many developer
teams could still be among us if people that enjoyed their games, instead of pirating, had bought them.

Now, what i cant stand is people that pirate games either way. Even if it is their favorite game, and then defend some kind of stance against copyright to justify
the person they are.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,749
Location
Moo?
This whole forum is an example of people generating information entertainment for free.


:troll:


If you were a developer, would you not wish to be paid for your craft?


OpNPlVp.jpg


"But the Parasite says NO!"



Anyway, I'm hardly going to be a hypocrite and come down on those who pirate when I did it for years. And I'm definitely going to keep my collection of cracking group banners and logos and boasting .exes. You would not believe some of the work and care that went into these things.


...let's pirate them.
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
Patron
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
10,100
Location
Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I have spent countless hours working on my first novel. My opinion is definitely subjective, but while I would not call it the greatest thing since Harry Potter, it is definitely not as bad as some of the things that are out there (reading Fifty Shades has convinced me of that.) It is sold on Amazon for less than three dollars. I have sold three books. Because the only way for me to advertise it was to spam forums and the threads promptly got deleted and I got banned. I seriously cannot blame the moderators and I think I deserve that, but how the hell wam I supposed to go out there and advertise it ? Hint : I can't, in fact, without spending a shitload of money or being an annoying bastard.

Point is : believe me, I would LOVE to be pirated. I would LOVE to see my book being shared on the likes of Piratebay and rapidshare websites (except when I tried to put it on some websites overthere, my post got also deleted because they could "not verify the link", what the hell). This would give me the visibility I wish I had. I do not hope nor intend to make a load of cash and quit my day job. Nah, I just want to get some feedback and see how much it can make. Some people think this is greedy though. Yes. I'm three dollars greedy, apparently. Pirate the fuck out of me, for god's sake. It's the best thing that could ever happen to me.

This being said, I also do pirate, and I certainly do not see how this is avoidable if you do want a complete video game culture. First, there is the case for abandonware. Try to find "The Pawn" or some other magnetic scrolls games on eBay ; they are absolutely unaffordable on eBay and I have found some that ranked on the thousands of $. So, to be clear, to stay on the legal side, I pretty much need to sell my car to play a game.

What the fuck is wrong with that.

The things on GOG can sometimes be even more shabby. I have no care for the rightholders. Aren't we supposed to buy games and artistic media to help the artists that create them ? After all, this is what all the MPAA communication and other stuff is about , right ? Except if you buy a game on GoG or on the Wii Virtual Console, most often, the people who worked on the games will never see the money. Instead this will end in the account on some publisher that will use it to shit a new Mario or even a new Call of Duty. Seriously, buy System Shock 2 on GoG? What the hell for?

Then there is the case for AAA. And for this while it is illegal and some might argue immoral to pirate, it's hard to feel the pain. I am not sad of having torrented Bioshock Infinite, because this game was an enormous lie. There is also the fact that these games make a ton of money with or without piracy, so why should I care ? In fact, some make so much money it's actually better than people pirate them and belittle as much as possible their success ; just imagine if everyone bought legally Call of Duty? You'd get even more Call of Duty. Pirating it removes the guilt of funding crap.

This being said, I do buy games once in a while. I jump on the steam sales, the humble bundles and things like that. And bloody hell, there are too many of these. And there, the nasty thought gets in my head.

"If I am not playing these games I buy, I waste money I could save for my kids going to college, or, in fact, money I could give to charity. Fuck that shit."

So I even download that shit once in a while ; but the good thing, is that I'm not proud.
 
Last edited:

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,621
Location
Russia
I seriously cannot blame the moderators and I think I deserve that, but how the hell wam I supposed to go out there and advertise it ? Hint : I can't, in fact, without spending a shitload of money or being an annoying bastard.
You advertise your writing with your (other) writing. Get used to write and publish for free, until (if) you get a wide enough fan base.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
5,698
Well, I wouldn't. But there's a reason 'starving artist' is a well known phrase. Many creative people create things because they feel compelled to do so, regardless of compensation. I suppose if I were absolutely driven, I'd go as far living in prison to say, write a book, if I had no other choice. Though it never really comes down to that. If you enjoy writing or drawing or whatever, it's something you do as a hobby. There's plenty of people who work full time jobs to make a living, and then spend 20+ hours a week on top of that writing fanfic or drawing art or comics or making music or whatever the fuck.

An arts + entertainment subsidy would certainly make a lot of sense. There are already huge subsidies for sports.

Kickstarter is a prime example of how things should ideally work though. The majority of funding for most kickstarters doesn't come from basic purchase level donations, but from the big spenders who are donating a ton of money because they have the disposable income and want to give an artist who's work they appreciate the freedom to spend more time on what is essentially a hobby. Other stuff like webcomics or streamers on twitch.tv work the same way. I threw some money at webcomics I liked back when I had money to spare, and I'd certainly be willing to do it again once my situation improves.
You can't compare the works of a single artist done for personal compulsion, to the massive 200+ team projects that videogames frequently are, or to the $200 million film blockbuster, or any other entertainment that requires many artisans to work together over a large period of time. There are exceptions, but they are very rare, and you wouldn't see any entertainment products on the scale, frequency or budget that you do now. Whether you personally care about those is not really relevant, the fact is that the people as a whole like those sorts of things and the current model is needed to support it, without some sort of complete restructuring of society and economy.
 

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