Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Semper]

It may be disappointing compared to Bohemia, but it's par for the course for most Kickstarter/Early Access devs.

while i can follow this argument because of early access it still makes no sense for a closed beta. they compile new builds to test them internally ignoring the mass of free qa testers, thus wasting precious time to get feedback.

 

[Haba]

It may be disappointing compared to Bohemia, but it's par for the course for most Kickstarter/Early Access devs.

while i can follow this argument because of early access it still makes no sense for a closed beta. they compile new builds to test them internally ignoring the mass of free qa testers, thus wasting precious time to get feedback.

Not to mention that Steam allows for opt-in daily builds using experimental branches...

 

[Sensuki]

Changed my mind on my spiel about flat damage bonuses actually, percentile is actually fine - it's just the weapon balance is fucked.

Did some DPS calculations and it's scaling properly across the lower tier weapons, but 1H Fast weapons have worse flat DPS than 1H normals atm (by my calculations anyway, 1h fast = 12-20 damage @ .6 attacks per second and 1h normal = 16-26 at .5 attacks per second).

 

[Rake]

Not an organic part of a holistic ruleset.

Honestly? This Sawyer's stuborness for a one shoe fits all system is what creates half the problems. Like Sensuki's example earlier where the easiest (and propably more effective) solution would be to tweak might damage bonuses in a per case way, but Sawyer won't do edge case solutions.
Also while his starting goals may seem reasonable and ambicious, but in practise the excecution leaves much to be desired. He fell into the trap of making uniformity within a spesific class th norm, something he had previously stated he wanted to avoid.

 

[tuluse]

Changed my mind on my spiel about flat damage bonuses actually, percentile is actually fine - it's just the weapon balance is fucked.

Did some DPS calculations and it's scaling properly across the lower tier weapons, but 1H Fast weapons have worse flat DPS than 1H normals atm (by my calculations anyway, 1h fast = 12-20 damage @ .6 attacks per second and 1h normal = 16-26 at .5 attacks per second).

Does this take DT into account?

 

[Sensuki]

Yes, and Might bonuses.

What it does not take into account is weapon special properties.

Don't use a 1H Fast weapon, they are fucking terrible.

I don't exactly know what two 1H Fast weapons does though, not 100% sure how TWF works yet.

On second thoughts:

The hatchet deflection bonus might be valuable, although I am not aware of the value.

The flail shield thing might be okay too, although it *may* be better off to just have +accuracy? Kinda seems inferior actually

Stilettos are bad in every way unless the target is weak vs piercing

Daggers and other 1H Fast weapons with accuracy bonus could be ok if their accuracy bonus is larger than the accuracy bonus that you get for using a spear.

 

[LarsWestergren]

Cool, I just got another beta key for backing Torment.

 

[Osvir]

Cipher is a fun class imo.

Yeah, Cipher and Chanter are the most interesting classes at the moment IMO.

I wish the Chanters summoning abilities were more "Animate Dead" than "Summon Dead". I can see a Chanter singing and the slain dead rise up to fight for a duration of time. Not "out of thin air". It'd balance Chanters a bit more too.

I've got to try a Summoning Chanter, Ranger combo (or 6 Chanters+6x3 xD). Chanter is quite overpowered at the moment, summoning 3 skeletons. It's really fun to run around with a large crowd in Pillars of Eternity. It's partially my Strategy RTS-gene talking. Pacing, feeling, combat, I can see it in a patient PvP environment. Stronghold versus Stronghold on a large campaign map, continent, geographical region. Control a large army from the character perspective of Infinity or Eternity, and be able to control many different attacks at the same time (navigating the map). So much potential!

Victory Conditions could be to kill the "King" (Nexus or Ancient equivalent Player created hero).

Pillars of Eternity: Total War-ish ftw. Short version: Running around with more than 6 characters in Formation is fun too.

I think their pathfinding at large is amazingly well done (clean a map from hostility, walk across the entire map, watch map), almost always flawlessly. Close at hand it can be wonky, characters bump each other and get stuck doing nasty things by corners, freeze, bug out. It'll be polished, the base is really well done.

 

[Bubbles]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years:

Priest casting Consecreted Ground:

With 3 Int

With 18 Int

 

[Ravel myluv]

Haven't played the game, but all this focus on balance fascinates me (in a bad way).

I think having a perfectly balanced game is important only in very high difficulties or iron man mode (which 1% of the players will go through).
What does one remember about a RPG? I will say writting and a story I can get involved in to the point it becomes personal. Some will say fun combat. Others will say graphics.
I can't think of anyone who would consider balance as the first quality in his favorite RPG. If the game isn't brutally hard, nor completely broken mechanic wise, who gives a flying fuck if a build is 5% less effective than another?

So, from what I've heard on this topic, what Sawyer did for his sacred balance is have very little difference between classes, give little bonuses for each object like +1,5% damage etc... He went the Age of Empires root, which is to say very little bonuses for all units, because when you have 100+ unit types in a game, you can't have big bonuses, exponential progression etc. PoE is also a complex game with a lot of classes, enemy types etc, therefore if it wants to be balanced it needed to be very soft-handed with progression, perks, bonuses...

Well, at the risk of praising an unbalanced game, I'd much rather a system a la Fallout where you can chose perks which give very positive (and negative) effects, where you can lose a lot of power from drug addiction, where you're always at risk of recieving a crit that will tear you into shreds in one shot... Now that's a game that makes me feel involved in my choices of perks and abilities, as unbalanced as they are.
I like games that will let you play anyway you want. But I don't like when a game takes my hand and makes sure there will be no bad consequences no matter what stupid choices I make. Let me be stupid if I want to, Sawyer!

And there I finish my rant, not having played the game. I just really, really hope that PoE won't be this mild experience that I fear it could be because of this obsession over balane.

 

[imweasel]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years

So, increasing your intelligence by 500% increases the AOE of consecrated ground by about 100%.

 

[Cazzeris]

So..., is this game any good?

 

[Volourn]

"It will be hard because of Sawyer's fucking huge ego, but not impossible."

He won't listen and he won't change. The onyl thing that can be expected to be fixed are bugs and maybe tweaking stuff like those two stats he himself has noticed aren't 'balanced'. The guy is a subpar designer who has baisclaly told his boss to fuck off. It's Sawyer's way or the noway. Even when he is 100% wrong which he often is.


"Now THIS is complete bullshit. IWD2 had a feat every 3 levels and bonus feats depending on class choices. But what's more important is that you could also mix and match classes in any combination, such as Paladin(2)/Sorc(10)/Fighter(4)."

It also had skill points every level. So, let's see, it give skill points every level, feats every 3rd level (except fighters who got more feats every 2nd level and mages who got 1 every 5 levels), it had an attribute point every 4 levels, and classes got different abilities on top of that too. FFS In essence, the toolbag doesn't know what he's talkin' about.


". The man is an obsessive sperg who does nothing but talk and work and write about systems."

Yet, he is supar when designing them and just doesn't understand what makes certain systems good or popular.


"Why the hate on autopause? It was really useful in BGII (as an example) for preventing your dumbass dude from walking over a spotted trap."

Don't hate it but it's unneeded. Never used it in the IE games.


"Sure, but what does Intelligence give to a Fighter in D&D ?"

Skills, access to certain feats, ability to dialogue properly.


"I'm sure there more dignifying jobs for him than dragging a bunch of fans of a real-time-with-elves Bioware game kicking and screaming into the 21st century."

But, his favorite game is Darklands which is not 21st century. Grognard much? LMFAO


"You know those aren't excludent, right? BG2 mages and clerics cannot use swords, but you have tons of customization options, thanks to tons of spells, game changing items and to multi-classing."

Except mages could use swords before the 2st century. Are you on FUKKIN' CRACK!?!


"Jesus the dude is distancing himself from this being judged as a Josh Sawyer joint"

He's a coward who wants it both ways. The good stuff? It's ALL Sawyer. The bad stuff? Blame the IE 'grognards'. FUCK OFF.



Too bad too as there's a lot of good stuff in this system but it's gonna be worse than it should be because of bullshitz fucknutz. I like the fighter has more stuff to do than a BG1 fighter but other stuff is just plain dumb. FFS FFS FFS

Thank god the game has dwarves. Dwarves make almost anything playable.

 

[Ravel myluv]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years

So, increasing your intelligence by 500% increases the AOE of consecrated ground by about 100%.

Yeah.... Exactly the low progression I was fearing... One big part of the fun in RPGs is empowerement. At the end of POE I guess my character will be ony twice as powerful as in the beginning... Great...

 

[Rake]

So..., is this game any good?

Yes.

 

[Duraframe300]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years

So, increasing your intelligence by 500% increases the AOE of consecrated ground by about 100%.

Thats....

a bit more than 100% unless something decieves me.

Edit: Yeah, thats definitly more than double the ground.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Well, I didn't say they were jobs he would ever actually get to do.

Although after Obsidian has gained its financial independence, who knows?

My point is, don't act like he didn't get a great opportunity to showcase his talents as a game designer here.

 

[Ravel myluv]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years

So, increasing your intelligence by 500% increases the AOE of consecrated ground by about 100%.

Thats....

a bit more than 100% unless something decieves me.

Edit: Yeah, thats definitly more than double the ground.

Doesn't really matter unless ennemies really pile up in an area. What really matters is the radius, so that an effect can touch faraway ennemies or allies. The radius has barely increased here.

 

[bonescraper]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years:

Priest casting Consecreted Ground:

With 3 Int

In D&D 1-2 Intelligence score is reserved for animals. So, for someone who's not much smarter than a squirrel, it looks pretty impressive.

 

[imweasel]

Celebratory quote from SA because they finally bothered to unban me after two years

So, increasing your intelligence by 500% increases the AOE of consecrated ground by about 100%.

Thats....

a bit more than 100% unless something decieves me.

Edit: Yeah, thats definitly more than double the ground.

The AOE is about 100% larger, so double in size.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The AoE with 3 int seems plenty large as it is to me.

 

[Duraframe300]

The AoE with 3 int seems plenty large as it is to me.

Agreed. Should be smaller.

 

[imweasel]

"It will be hard because of Sawyer's fucking huge ego, but not impossible."

He won't listen and he won't change. The onyl thing that can be expected to be fixed are bugs and maybe tweaking stuff like those two stats he himself has noticed aren't 'balanced'. The guy is a subpar designer who has baisclaly told his boss to fuck off. It's Sawyer's way or the noway. Even when he is 100% wrong which he often is.

There is nothing we can do if he doesn't want to change what is controversial and Feargus just lets Sawyer do what he wants.

If you think it sucks, bitch about it. If they don't change it, then tough shit I guess. Give the game a negative rating on metacritic and then torrent PoE 2 to make yourself feel better. :D

I personally don't really give a shit anymore. I have written about and brofisted posts with descriptions of what I don't like. Obsidian can use that as constructive criticism to improve the game or just ignore it.

 

[Volourn]

"Give the game a negative rating on metacritic and then torrent PoE 2 to make yourself feel better."

L0L It won't. Because I want the game to be the best it can be. Fuck metacritic.

 

[Arkeus]

Yeah.... Exactly the low progression I was fearing... One big part of the fun in RPGs is empowerement. At the end of POE I guess my character will be ony twice as powerful as in the beginning... Great...

You are aware you do not put attributes in the IE games once you begin right? I mean, past special weapons or unique books.

This is a enormous difference on whether you dump Intelligence or not for a wizard. Though i'd actually prefer if any points below 10 gave a negative modifier and anything above a positive one (so the 3 int thing is what you would expect of a int 11 Wizard), this is already a big ass 'choice' in how you flavor your character.