KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Alienman]

We got the tactics already made in Battle Brothers, now we just need a real campaign.

 

[Galdred]

Btw, i am a bit surprised that all those X-Com clones like Phoenix Point, Xenonauts, Shock tactics, etc. are all going SCI-FI and in result they look very similar to each other. I wish someone will make a fantasy Xcom.

I'm sure some have toyed with the idea at least. The problem with fantasy x-com is that it would play completely differently than shooty x-com since you'd have a mixture of melee, ranged and magic users with shields or no shields, in light or heavy armor. All unit types should be massively different from each other, but the player should still be incentivized or forced to field mixed squads. Could they make use of formations, and how would you prevent mages from being either overpowered or pin cushions? Shooty x-com doesn't have to deal with these questions because units are largely the same, the type of gun they wield being the biggest difference. Not saying it can't be done, but there are way more moving parts.

Indeed, that was more or less what I was going to write about this issue:
A fantasy XCOM would feel very different on the tactical level, because most of the tension of the original X-COM comes from the fact that something you cannot see can kill your soldier in one shot.

It wouldn't work too well in a fantasy setting, because a significant part of the units will be melee, which leads to a very different "feel".
But as Alienman pointed out, Battle Brothers manages to create a strong feeling of tension with very different mechanics (battles are more about attrition than sudden burst of casualties).

 

[Mazisky]

Btw, i am a bit surprised that all those X-Com clones like Phoenix Point, Xenonauts, Shock tactics, etc. are all going SCI-FI and in result they look very similar to each other. I wish someone will make a fantasy Xcom.

I'm sure some have toyed with the idea at least. The problem with fantasy x-com is that it would play completely differently than shooty x-com since you'd have a mixture of melee, ranged and magic users with shields or no shields, in light or heavy armor. All unit types should be massively different from each other, but the player should still be incentivized or forced to field mixed squads. Could they make use of formations, and how would you prevent mages from being either overpowered or pin cushions? Shooty x-com doesn't have to deal with these questions because units are largely the same, the type of gun they wield being the biggest difference. Not saying it can't be done, but there are way more moving parts.

Indeed, that was more or less what I was going to write about this issue:
A fantasy XCOM would feel very different on the tactical level, because most of the tension of the original X-COM comes from the fact that something you cannot see can kill your soldier in one shot.

It wouldn't work too well in a fantasy setting, because a significant part of the units will be melee, which leads to a very different "feel".
But as Alienman pointed out, Battle Brothers manages to create a strong feeling of tension with very different mechanics (battles are more about attrition than sudden burst of casualties).

I am 100% sure that many of you (me included) would really like a X-com clone in a high fantasy setting. It would be really well received, since it's pointless to make an Xcom game that look like a Xcom 2 clone. Gollop missed the chance imho, too similar, he should've gone totally different, maybe not fantasy but at least full horror or something.

 

[Edija]

40k Xcom/Jagged Alliance when? Really deep tactical combat starting out as CSM vs SM with a good melee element would probably sell pretty well. I wonder why no one had the idea since Chaos Gate. A well made Warhammer game can be milked for a long time as Total War demonstrates.

 

[Galdred]

I am 100% sure that many of you (me included) would really like a X-com clone in a high fantasy setting. It would be really well received, since it's pointless to make an Xcom game that look like a Xcom 2 clone. Gollop missed the chance imho, too similar, he should've gone totally different, maybe not fantasy but at least full horror or something.

I agree that Gollop missed a good chance to "merge" Chaos and X-COM here.
Massive Chalice did try, but that didn't end well (but they tried to also add Crusader Kings 2 to the mix and didn't work on their title long enough to refine it).
There are several being made (Fort Triumph, which is in Alpha. My own one which should have a tactical demo "soon", Alder's Blood, which is rather early modern era horror, and some others I probably did miss), and some others had "light" base building elements and/or some kind of geoscape (Forged of Blood, Stormguard: the Darkness is coming).

 

[Endemic]

40k Xcom/Jagged Alliance when? Really deep tactical combat starting out as CSM vs SM with a good melee element would probably sell pretty well. I wonder why no one had the idea since Chaos Gate. A well made Warhammer game can be milked for a long time as Total War demonstrates.

There's already a 40k mod for Openxcom. https://openxcom.mod.io/40k

 

[Edija]

40k Xcom/Jagged Alliance when? Really deep tactical combat starting out as CSM vs SM with a good melee element would probably sell pretty well. I wonder why no one had the idea since Chaos Gate. A well made Warhammer game can be milked for a long time as Total War demonstrates.

There's already a 40k mod for Openxcom. https://openxcom.mod.io/40k

Mods are cool, but we need at least an AA game for this to really work out.

On topic: I watched the tutorial they posted on the Phoenix Point channel. The game looks mostly okay but the UI design is atrocious and looks really amateurish. Oversized, bulky, sharp in a really bad way. I don't know, pirate it is.

 

[Shog-goth]

Mods are cool, but we need at least an AA game for this to really work out.

If I remember correctly, a couple of years ago there was an interesting attempt by an industry veteran (I think it was Gollop). Unfortunately it didn't work out.

 

[Mazisky]

40k Xcom/Jagged Alliance when? Really deep tactical combat starting out as CSM vs SM with a good melee element would probably sell pretty well. I wonder why no one had the idea since Chaos Gate. A well made Warhammer game can be milked for a long time as Total War demonstrates.

There's already a 40k mod for Openxcom. https://openxcom.mod.io/40k

Mods are cool, but we need at least an AA game for this to really work out.

On topic: I watched the tutorial they posted on the Phoenix Point channel. The game looks mostly okay but the UI design is atrocious and looks really amateurish. Oversized, bulky, sharp in a really bad way. I don't know, pirate it is.

To me the UI doesn't look too amaeurish, it looks cheap. Like they had low budget or it's a mobile game.

 

[Mazisky]

I don't know guys, for some things it looks a total xcom2 ripoff.

-Same missions, such as defend havens or loot crates.
-Same aircraft cinematic on mission launch
-3 factions
-Same action points ui with blue and yellow squares
-Some classes look identical to xcom2 ones (ex. reapers)
-Hitech cities that look exactly like Xcom 2 ones, even the same color pattern and very similar assets

Gollop is copying Firaxis more than himself lol

 

[udm]

Gee it was that obvious huh

 

[PhantasmaNL]

And the first thing you manufacture is a medkit.

Its one thing to emulate a concept or overall vision, carbon copying every detail is another.

I suppose this will flop big time.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

And the first thing you manufacture is a medkit.

Its one thing to emulate a concept or overall vision, carbon copying every detail is another.

I suppose this will flop big time.

no it wont

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Excuse me Mr Unstable Voltage, there is a bug with your game. Despite getting a full refund you sent me over a key for the game anyway. I'll take the key seeing as the game is free and even though you're a belligerent, ignorant arsehole who pissed all over our concerns to chase Chink money I will be doing my best to enjoy my free game. But so far if the very fact that I didn't want the game in the first place is being ignored, and due to this being a very common occurrence amongst your employer I hold no hopes for the quality of the end product.

 

[PanteraNera]

Looks like even more got cut than we hoped or feared.
His conclusion is: play now with a lot of features and content missing or later (hopefully) with all the content.

 

[thesheeep]

How absurdly underestimated was their original campaign goal if even all the Epic money is still not enough?

 

[Raghar]

How absurdly underestimated was their original campaign goal if even all the Epic money is still not enough?

What was theirs original campaign goal? I might be able to calculate real money.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

How absurdly underestimated was their original campaign goal if even all the Epic money is still not enough?

What was theirs original campaign goal? I might be able to calculate real money.

A game they could complete in time, like as not.

 

[ArchAngel]

How absurdly underestimated was their original campaign goal if even all the Epic money is still not enough?

Maybe Gollop over time found out that Bulgarian devs are as good as they are cheap

He should have moved to Russia, Owlcat took less time to make and patch Kingmaker and they also made a bigger and more complex game.

 

[Raghar]

How absurdly underestimated was their original campaign goal if even all the Epic money is still not enough?

Maybe Gollop over time found out that Bulgarian devs are as good as they are cheap

He should have moved to Russia, Owlcat took less time to make and patch Kingmaker and they also made a bigger and more complex game.

From what I seen from various bugs when I played Kingmaker, they are quite incompetent. (One small example: only idiot would use GUID for stuff they did. GUID is based on probability, and using it in so many instances as they did only increases chance for collision. If they needed in game unique identifier, x64 register is enough.)

Game developers should have passion and work on theirs own in house projects. Hiring external teams for art typically ends badly.

 

[thesheeep]

Hiring external teams for art typically ends badly.

I'd say that is actually the only part of game development that can very well be made by external hires. That and music.
A game can be "finished" (or say, beta stage) before a single final piece of art is in as long as you know what you are doing.

Now, does everyone who hires external people for art & music know what they are doing? Hell, no.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

why do people think "tracing a bullet" is somehow more "realistic" than rolling a dice? This would be like me designing a basketball game where I just designed the the shooter to "just" trace the basketball to go directly into the hoop every time so long as someones hand was not in the way or something, I mean why not!? You shoot the ball, it goes to the basket, right? Only reason it would not is if someone blocked it!

Why is the assumption the shooter is going to make a straight shot every time? This reminds me of idiots who can't understand how someone can miss someone with a sword or a gun at close range because they have never actually been in a fight. The whole issue annoys me. The truth is, dice can simulate reality in a more realistic way than a human can program a simulated reality. Anyway, whatever.


edit:

durrr because if you just aim du gun dats where it goes!

 

[Cnaiur]

Ok lads, stop sperging and bring out your CC. Time to pay up.

 

[Togukawa]

why do people think "tracing a bullet" is somehow more "realistic" than rolling a dice? This would be like me designing a basketball game where I just designed the the shooter to "just" trace the basketball to go directly into the hoop every time so long as someones hand was not in the way or something, I mean why not!? You shoot the ball, it goes to the basket, right? Only reason it would not is if someone blocked it!

Why is the assumption the shooter is going to make a straight shot every time? This reminds me of idiots who can't understand how someone can miss someone with a sword or a gun at close range because they have never actually been in a fight. The whole issue annoys me. The truth is, dice can simulate reality in a more realistic way than a human can program a simulated reality. Anyway, whatever.

You don't make a straight shot every time, the actual direction your gun is pointing when the bullet leaves the barrel is also determined by "dice roll". The main differences are that:
- terrain collision is exact. No shooting through walls or obstacles, nor wrong hit calculations giving low chance to hit for unobstructed line of sight.
- better model for burst firing. Shooting a large burst or a shotgun at long range target should have a big chance of scoring at least some damage, but low chance of doing high damage. With standard dice rolling, it's low chance to do high damage and high chance to do no damage at all.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

why do people think "tracing a bullet" is somehow more "realistic" than rolling a dice? This would be like me designing a basketball game where I just designed the the shooter to "just" trace the basketball to go directly into the hoop every time so long as someones hand was not in the way or something, I mean why not!? You shoot the ball, it goes to the basket, right? Only reason it would not is if someone blocked it!

Why is the assumption the shooter is going to make a straight shot every time? This reminds me of idiots who can't understand how someone can miss someone with a sword or a gun at close range because they have never actually been in a fight. The whole issue annoys me. The truth is, dice can simulate reality in a more realistic way than a human can program a simulated reality. Anyway, whatever.

You don't make a straight shot every time, the actual direction your gun is pointing when the bullet leaves the barrel is also determined by "dice roll". The main differences are that:
- terrain collision is exact. No shooting through walls or obstacles, nor wrong hit calculations giving low chance to hit for unobstructed line of sight.
- better model for burst firing. Shooting a large burst or a shotgun at long range target should have a big chance of scoring at least some damage, but low chance of doing high damage. With standard dice rolling, it's low chance to do high damage and high chance to do no damage at all.

okay, well thats good to hear then, because that is not what I understood. In that case I am wrong then, and I accept I was an idiot. That sounds like a good model. I misunderstood the system, I thought from the video it just aimed 100% wherever you aimed it unless an obstacle was in the way, which did not seem very realistic to me.