Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Nikanuur]

Does anyone know how to stop the game from creating a potion during the camping? I mean, once I've selected a potion, I can only change it to different one. Can't seem to cancel the potion creating altogether. I *have* to create a potion during the camping or change the character to one that doesn't meet the requirement. But that is not good, because other characters don't have that much skill for cooking. Wtf :D

Can't you just deselect the people in the cooking slot? I wouldn't know tbh I never cook anything.

Yeah, just reassign your guy. The potion doesn't make itself.

But as noted, that's not a solution when other members are not that good for the cooking. There is no option to unclick the potion, no doubleclick to remove the potion, no button remove potion, etc. I am flamberghasted.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Does anyone know how to stop the game from creating a potion during the camping? I mean, once I've selected a potion, I can only change it to different one. Can't seem to cancel the potion creating altogether. I *have* to create a potion during the camping or change the character to one that doesn't meet the requirement. But that is not good, because other characters don't have that much skill for cooking. Wtf :D

Can't you just deselect the people in the cooking slot? I wouldn't know tbh I never cook anything.

Yeah, just reassign your guy. The potion doesn't make itself.

But as noted, that's not a solution when other members are not that good for the cooking. There is no option to unclick the potion, no doubleclick to remove the potion, no button remove potion, etc. I am flamberghasted.

What are you talking about? Just leave the task empty.

 

[aloeh]

So i have come up with an amusing observation these days, mostly due to prolific activity of one forum member with less than a year of history. I think he represents a typical Western player well enough.

Kingmaker was released with game breaking bugs, with a very complicated combat system that was thoroughly implemented, and with encounters that were reasonable, but happened to be game stopping. The first fight with the assassin in the prologue; the spider swarms in the fangberry cave; the first electrical nobility in the Old Sycamore. Owlcat Games were bombarded with bad reviews for hard fights, complex systems, trick enemies, timed quests and the strategic layer that could ruin the run. The Kingmaker's audience remained a niche at least until the latest Epic giveaway.

Owlcat Games learned their lessons and made changes. They added a lot of UI improvements and tutorials to explain the Pathfinder role playing system. Losing the crusade will not lose the game anymore. The crusade difficulty does not scale up to Unfair - the maximum is always "normal". All the timers are optional, and the game cannot be lost due to poor timing. At no point in the prologue the main hero has to fight alone, and for the starting party of 3 there is Anevia, who is immortal and one-shots everything. Also, the first enemy that can be considered tricky is a Shadow Demon, who happens at level 4-5.

The game has become simpler, more accessible, and the Steam reviews and sales followed. The audience expanded, and, according to Sturgeon's law, 90% of this new audience are crap. Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

I see a positive feedback loop here, which some might call "a death spiral". Every simplification of the game brings in a new audience that requires more simplification which would bring even more new audience. I am far from calling Wrath a "dumbing down", but it is simpler to understand and more accessible than Kingmaker.

What's next? Which iteration will become "dumbed down" for good? The 3d? The 4th? When will we have to jump ship and look for another Underrail developer who would be at the beginning of this inevitable death spiral?

Also remember, that, as I have written after the interview with Mr. Mishulin, it seems that the Owlcat top creative minds are purposefully guarded from direct interaction with the gamers. So they, probably, are having a synopsis of the general opinion, which means they are made to follow the dumbest part of the herd.

I hated the timed quests of kingmaker, if you want to do things properly you don't have much freedom. I almost never entered in secondary maps, because you lost a lot of time traveling.

You can't rule the kingdom properly too, you become a baron and in less than 20 days start the troll arc. If you anex a region and upgrade 2 advisors, you lost jubilost, Bartolomeu Delgado and, I think, ekundayo.

The game forces you to go to pitax tournament, if you wait to long your kingdom is destroyed.

I was running like a crazy to, in the end, wait 5 months for the 5th curse of bald hitop and more 12 months fort the 6th.

I'm sure I enjoyed a lot without this crazys timed quests.

Imn

In relation of classes, maybe is something that comon I'm Pathfinder PnP, but I always think this need of 5 classes to build a great char too much. Even more for a noob like in pathfinder.

Ex. I'm a evocation mage, I want blow stuff.

To be a great evocation mage you have take wizard, in level 4 rogue(thug), them 10 lvls de arcane trickster etc.

Today I understand that I have to take the rogue because of the sneak dice of him. But why we can stick with one clase and be strong too?

Not to mention many feats, and synergies wit other feats its too much. And is one of the strongest points of the game.

In baldur's gate 2, played after kingmaker, I didn't have this problem, I liked me and my companions staying in the same class.

In WotR it's good the removal of the timed quest (still have a bunch, but not so proessive like kingmaker), and have a list of builds made per class, probably its crap but it's possible to play in normal.

 

[Whisper]

So i have come up with an amusing observation these days, mostly due to prolific activity of one forum member with less than a year of history. I think he represents a typical Western player well enough.

Kingmaker was released with game breaking bugs, with a very complicated combat system that was thoroughly implemented, and with encounters that were reasonable, but happened to be game stopping. The first fight with the assassin in the prologue; the spider swarms in the fangberry cave; the first electrical nobility in the Old Sycamore. Owlcat Games were bombarded with bad reviews for hard fights, complex systems, trick enemies, timed quests and the strategic layer that could ruin the run. The Kingmaker's audience remained a niche at least until the latest Epic giveaway.

Owlcat Games learned their lessons and made changes. They added a lot of UI improvements and tutorials to explain the Pathfinder role playing system. Losing the crusade will not lose the game anymore. The crusade difficulty does not scale up to Unfair - the maximum is always "normal". All the timers are optional, and the game cannot be lost due to poor timing. At no point in the prologue the main hero has to fight alone, and for the starting party of 3 there is Anevia, who is immortal and one-shots everything. Also, the first enemy that can be considered tricky is a Shadow Demon, who happens at level 4-5.

The game has become simpler, more accessible, and the Steam reviews and sales followed. The audience expanded, and, according to Sturgeon's law, 90% of this new audience are crap. Now Wrath is criticized for complex puzzles, for "inclusivity", and for a completely optional enemy in the second half of the game.

I see a positive feedback loop here, which some might call "a death spiral". Every simplification of the game brings in a new audience that requires more simplification which would bring even more new audience. I am far from calling Wrath a "dumbing down", but it is simpler to understand and more accessible than Kingmaker.

What's next? Which iteration will become "dumbed down" for good? The 3d? The 4th? When will we have to jump ship and look for another Underrail developer who would be at the beginning of this inevitable death spiral?

Also remember, that, as I have written after the interview with Mr. Mishulin, it seems that the Owlcat top creative minds are purposefully guarded from direct interaction with the gamers. So they, probably, are having a synopsis of the general opinion, which means they are made to follow the dumbest part of the herd.

I hated the timed quests of kingmaker, if you want to do things properly you don't have much freedom. I almost never entered in secondary maps, because you lost a lot of time traveling.

You can't rule the kingdom properly too, you become a baron and in less than 20 days start the troll arc. If you anex a region and upgrade 2 advisors, you lost jubilost, Bartolomeu Delgado and, I think, ekundayo.

The game forces you to go to pitax tournament, if you wait to long your kingdom is destroyed.

I was running like a crazy to, in the end, wait 5 months for the 5th curse of bald hitop and more 12 months fort the 6th.

I'm sure I enjoyed a lot without this crazys timed quests.

Imn

In relation of classes, maybe is something that comon I'm Pathfinder PnP, but I always think this need of 5 classes to build a great char too much. Even more for a noob like in pathfinder.

Ex. I'm a evocation mage, I want blow stuff.

To be a great evocation mage you have take wizard, in level 4 rogue(thug), them 10 lvls de arcane trickster etc.

Today I understand that I have to take the rogue because of the sneak dice of him. But why we can stick with one clase and be strong too?

Not to mention many feats, and synergies wit other feats its too much. And is one of the strongest points of the game.

In baldur's gate 2, played after kingmaker, I didn't have this problem, I liked me and my companions staying in the same class.

In WotR it's good the removal of the timed quest (still have a bunch, but not so proessive like kingmaker), and have a list of builds made per class, probably its crap but it's possible to play in normal.

Yes, casuals hate timed quests, because they cant spam rests and actually have to choose what skills to use now or which to use later.

If you do not spam rests, you have time for everything in Kingmaker, even spare time.

 

[Sharpedge]

If you do not spam rests, you have time for everything in Kingmaker, even spare time.

The last time I played kingmaker, by the time I reached HatEoT I had close to a year worth of remaining time. Even if you rest spam you have plenty of time left over. The only situation where you will not have time left over is if you are exceedingly inefficient at routing your way around your kingdom.

 

[Fedora Master]

- Trickster's Knowledge (World) 1 rank didn't work correctly - fixed;
- Trickster's Lore (Nature) 3 rank didn't work correctly - fixed;
- Trickster's Stealth 3 rank didn't work correctly - fixed;

- Skald rage powers (Increased Damage Reduction, Celestial Totem, Powerful Stance, Celestial Totem, Lesser) weren't applied via Raging Song to either the Skald or to any party members affected by Raging Song - fixed;

 

[razvedchiki]

is rupture restraints usefull for a tank? it will allow you to dump wisdom which i always pump on tanks for the will saves. the only bad thing about it is the 3 uses per day.

edit
they added a survey where you pick which archetype you think is weak, which is nonsense because even if you played 24/7 the game you cant possibly accurately gauge which is good/weak with all the myriad mythic paths etc.

 

[Nikanuur]

Does anyone know how to stop the game from creating a potion during the camping? I mean, once I've selected a potion, I can only change it to different one. Can't seem to cancel the potion creating altogether. I *have* to create a potion during the camping or change the character to one that doesn't meet the requirement. But that is not good, because other characters don't have that much skill for cooking. Wtf :D

Can't you just deselect the people in the cooking slot? I wouldn't know tbh I never cook anything.

Yeah, just reassign your guy. The potion doesn't make itself.

But as noted, that's not a solution when other members are not that good for the cooking. There is no option to unclick the potion, no doubleclick to remove the potion, no button remove potion, etc. I am flamberghasted.

What are you talking about? Just leave the task empty.

The potion creating is tied to cooking, so it can't be cancelled unless one cancels the cooking as well. If the character slot is freed altogether, posted by another character, then changed back to the appropriate cooker/alchemist, the potion slot gets occupied by itself again. So you can palm-face me as much as you want, but you don't know how to properly clear the potion slot either, or do you?

Edit: One sleep without a person in the cooking / alchemy slot finally emptied the potion slot. But that's a bothersome workaround. One would need to sleep always one more time should they want to cancel the potion creating. There is no "empty the potion slot" button, like a cross or doubleclick to make the slot empty or anything. Meh

 

[Humbaba]

Another character can use +2 Cha tome. Any companion can use it.

A +2 bonus translates to a +1 modifier on any given stat. By the time you get that tome you will have found +4 circlets, belts etc. Whether you yourself are gonna use it or not, that very slim increase is not great and not worth suffering through an optional overtuned encounter. Also, you should give it to your PC anyway, seeing as you're gonna import him for the DLC campaign and we don't know which companions will return, if any.

is rupture restraints usefull for a tank? it will allow you to dump wisdom which i always pump on tanks for the will saves. the only bad thing about it is the 3 uses per day.

Not really tbh. It scales badly. 3 times a day (i.e per rest) is gonna be burned after just one encounter including any sort of high level wizard and for many conditions there are spells that make you immune. Unstoppable scales a lot more evenly and is permanent at least.

 

[ArchAngel]

Another character can use +2 Cha tome. Any companion can use it.

A +2 bonus translates to a +1 modifier on any given stat. By the time you get that tome you will have found +4 circlets, belts etc. Whether you yourself are gonna use it or not, that very slim increase is not great and not worth suffering through an optional overtuned encounter. Also, you should give it to your PC anyway, seeing as you're gonna import him for the DLC campaign and we don't know which companions will return, if any.

is rupture restraints usefull for a tank? it will allow you to dump wisdom which i always pump on tanks for the will saves. the only bad thing about it is the 3 uses per day.

Not really tbh. It scales badly. 3 times a day (i.e per rest) is gonna be burned after just one encounter including any sort of high level wizard and for many conditions there are spells that make you immune. Unstoppable scales a lot more evenly and is permanent at least.

Tomes give inherent bonus to stats that stack with bonuses you get from circlets and headbands. And that +1 DC is worth a lot depending on what is the current enemy chance to save. If that will bring it down from 10% to 5% (19 to 20 on a d20 roll) that is a huge boost.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Every optional encounter is additional EXP and additional game content. It is already there, and it has been already paid for.

If the player likes the game, then why skip parts of it? And if the player wants to skip the game content, then why s/he is playing the game?

 

[Humbaba]

Tomes give inherent bonus to stats that stack with bonuses you get from circlets and headbands. And that +1 DC is worth a lot depending on what is the current enemy chance to save. If that will bring it down from 10% to 5% (19 to 20 on a d20 roll) that is a huge boost.

I know they stack but the increase remains minimal relative to the time and effort in order to get that +1 bonus, when you can get much larger bonuses much easier. If you got that +1 earlier it would be much better but if let's say you get a +8 from your CHA score then that +1 is only an increase of 1/8th, whereas early game it might be 1/4th or more. Percentage wise you're right, it makes the difference between 10% and 5% but this is a dice game where chances only move within increments, meaning evaluating chances in percentages is misleading. Your chances double, but they're still slim and will not make much of a difference.

Every optional encounter is additional EXP and additional game content. It is already there, and it has been already paid for.

If the player likes the game, then why skip parts of it? And if the player wants to skip the game content, then why s/he is playing the game?

Have you ever considered that there are parts in a game that certain players might not find entertaining?

 

[Delterius]

why wouldn't i pick a +1 bonus 50 hours in just because i got a +4 bonus 30 hours in

 

[Humbaba]

why wouldn't i pick a +1 bonus 50 hours in just because i got a +4 bonus 30 hours in

Because the encounter is gay

 

[Humbaba]

Anyway

Turns out not that many demons are immune to fear. It might only be Balors, Vavakias and Gallus. However running after scared enemies may bait you into other encounters and it makes archers retreat to a safe distance from where they will continue to snipe you. In short, fear is not great in open areas but pretty good in small rooms (of which there aren't too many) because then enemies will just run to the nearest corner and let themselves be hacked to death.

 

[ArchAngel]

Anyway

Turns out not that many demons are immune to fear. It might only be Balors, Vavakias and Gallus. However running after scared enemies may bait you into other encounters and it makes archers retreat to a safe distance from where they will continue to snipe you. In short, fear is not great in open areas but pretty good in small rooms (of which there aren't too many) because then enemies will just run to the nearest corner and let themselves be hacked to death.

Fear is not good but shaken status is.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Yooooo Aeon is finally getting a proper transformation. I glad i hold off my Aeon run.

 

[Humbaba]

Wait it DIDN'T? have a proper transformation bruh that's lazy

 

[LannTheStupid]

Frankly, I have never understood this Western approach to gaming.

Why are you talking about hours per something? Do you have some KPI in mind? Are you increasing the return on time investment? Are you... well... working?!

Gaming is leisure time. Leisure time is something people (or at least people I consider "normal") enjoy. There is no goal in leisure, there is the process. If you like the process you are in it. If you don't like the process you change it to something else. Do Westerners quantify the amount of joy per hour they experience in, say, The Louvre? Or on some Caribbean beach?

 

[Konjad]

Since so many 'dexers say that Pathfinder - Wrath of the Righteous is GotY I decided to give it a try after all.

Holy crap, I must say it surprised me immensely. The writing is so extremely trash and cringe I can't believe anybody would enjoy it.

People who say it's GotY or decent game at all must be trolling, I can't explain it otherwise...

But I see this thread is so long, what the fuck is wrong with you, people?

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Since so many 'dexers say that Pathfinder - Wrath of the Righteous is GotY I decided to give it a try after all.

Holy crap, I must say it surprised me immensely. The writing is so extremely trash and cringe I can't believe anybody would enjoy it.

People who say it's GotY or decent game at all must be trolling, I can't explain it otherwise...

But I see this thread is so long, what the fuck is wrong with you, people?

It's fun to play and there's literaly no other RPG that was good released in 2021.

 

[Konjad]

Since so many 'dexers say that Pathfinder - Wrath of the Righteous is GotY I decided to give it a try after all.

Holy crap, I must say it surprised me immensely. The writing is so extremely trash and cringe I can't believe anybody would enjoy it.

People who say it's GotY or decent game at all must be trolling, I can't explain it otherwise...

But I see this thread is so long, what the fuck is wrong with you, people?

It's fun to play and there's literaly no other RPG that was good released in 2021.

Archolos.

 

[Humbaba]

Since so many 'dexers say that Pathfinder - Wrath of the Righteous is GotY I decided to give it a try after all.

Holy crap, I must say it surprised me immensely. The writing is so extremely trash and cringe I can't believe anybody would enjoy it.

People who say it's GotY or decent game at all must be trolling, I can't explain it otherwise...

But I see this thread is so long, what the fuck is wrong with you, people?

Everything else is incline though. Except maybe the puzzles but apparently some people like those.

 

[ArchAngel]

Since so many 'dexers say that Pathfinder - Wrath of the Righteous is GotY I decided to give it a try after all.

Holy crap, I must say it surprised me immensely. The writing is so extremely trash and cringe I can't believe anybody would enjoy it.

People who say it's GotY or decent game at all must be trolling, I can't explain it otherwise...

But I see this thread is so long, what the fuck is wrong with you, people?

We are not storyfags like you. You must be one of those fags that played Disco Elysium.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Story and writing is cringe fest and shit just like Kingmaker. I don't know why people expected something better.

This game is for build porn autists.