Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Whisper]

You do realise you are playing an Owlcat game right? Like, is any of this a surprise to you?

Most of this shit was contained within romance paths in Kingmaker. But Wrath was so incessantly barraging me with Arushalae's "Pale beautiful face", "Shining ruby eyes filled with tears", "delicate shaking fingers" and "tender shaking lips" each time I took her into the group, that my only desire after one full run with her as a constant party member was to drown constantly crying shaking bitch in some latrine.

I guess I am not a target audience.

You forgot "shy smile". Which she does in every second dialogue.

 

[Humbaba]

Yes but let us go back to talking about how cool my build is.

Bloodrager primalist is completely busted. He has it all: high bab, high hp, high dmg, high crit chance, high AC you name it. Once I get lethal accuracy I can crank up my crit modifier to x4. And supersonic speed just made him worse. Just slapped the druid lich at wintersun in like 30 seconds. Fight was over so quick I had to check the combat log to even find out what happened. Not even the horrors of Blackwater can stop this guy. Beat the lava ring fight first try, and I forgot guarded hearth too.

I am also glad to report that Early Sunset actually has stopped talking sense and now he is just a big naysayer who will not even let mimics join because they scare his bitch ass. Devil path is cancelled.

 

[Sharpedge]

My problem with Ember has to do with verisimilitude. On multiple levels. For the first level, there is the juxtaposition between Ember's conversions and Arueshalae (who I also have problems with, but for different reasons). Arueshalae took the intervention of a god to redeem and her redemption is a slow, difficult process. Ember's "redemptions" (when you follow that part of her quest) are by comparison much swifter and are not depicted as being anywhere near as personally daunting. Even if you are to account for the 6 month time wait between when you leave the Nocticula's city to go fight Hepzamirah and when you spoke to the citizens of the abyss, a redemption that swift with no further encouragement from Ember is, in my mind, immersion ruining. Added to that, demons are supposed to be a literal embodiment of evil. A demon choosing to change their nature should be an incredibly rare occurrence. Whilst true, relative to the total number of existing demons, the number redeemed is still "low," all of this redemption happening in such a short period of time does seem to be a bit implausible. Her redeeming Nocticula takes the breaking of immersion even further. In my opinion, a better outcome for Ember's quest, with the perspective of trying to maintain some degree of realism, would be for her to try to redeem them and ultimately fail, regardless of whether you encourage her or belittle her. The difference, between the two outcomes should come from personal character development for Ember, not from demons magically being redeemed. The evil outcome can remain as is, the good outcome however, should have you encourage her to keep trying, where she resolves to continue on with her hope in spite of her failures. Having her "learn" to persevere through failure would, in my opinion, be a much better quest outcome.

You just assume that every demon converted by Ember is at the stage of Arushalae post-redemption, when you could more reasonably assume that they are at the stage of Arushalae when you first find her. Don't forget at that point in time, Aru's been in the redemption arc for in-universe years. Who's to say that every Emberite does not also have years of social work ahead of them?

My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.

 

[ArchAngel]

My problem with Ember has to do with verisimilitude. On multiple levels. For the first level, there is the juxtaposition between Ember's conversions and Arueshalae (who I also have problems with, but for different reasons). Arueshalae took the intervention of a god to redeem and her redemption is a slow, difficult process. Ember's "redemptions" (when you follow that part of her quest) are by comparison much swifter and are not depicted as being anywhere near as personally daunting. Even if you are to account for the 6 month time wait between when you leave the Nocticula's city to go fight Hepzamirah and when you spoke to the citizens of the abyss, a redemption that swift with no further encouragement from Ember is, in my mind, immersion ruining. Added to that, demons are supposed to be a literal embodiment of evil. A demon choosing to change their nature should be an incredibly rare occurrence. Whilst true, relative to the total number of existing demons, the number redeemed is still "low," all of this redemption happening in such a short period of time does seem to be a bit implausible. Her redeeming Nocticula takes the breaking of immersion even further. In my opinion, a better outcome for Ember's quest, with the perspective of trying to maintain some degree of realism, would be for her to try to redeem them and ultimately fail, regardless of whether you encourage her or belittle her. The difference, between the two outcomes should come from personal character development for Ember, not from demons magically being redeemed. The evil outcome can remain as is, the good outcome however, should have you encourage her to keep trying, where she resolves to continue on with her hope in spite of her failures. Having her "learn" to persevere through failure would, in my opinion, be a much better quest outcome.

You just assume that every demon converted by Ember is at the stage of Arushalae post-redemption, when you could more reasonably assume that they are at the stage of Arushalae when you first find her. Don't forget at that point in time, Aru's been in the redemption arc for in-universe years. Who's to say that every Emberite does not also have years of social work ahead of them?

My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.

So are Angels but fallen ones are even part of our RL religion...

 

[Nikanuur]

My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.

First and foremost, they are consciouss beings. Any consciouss being learns soon enough the meaning of pain, fulfilled desire/need, that everybody is the same in this, and the basic morality that lies therein. How does the consciouss being choose to approach the matter is another thing.

 

[Daidre]

First and foremost, they are consciouss beings. Any consciouss being learns soon enough the meaning of pain, fulfilled desire/need, that everybody is the same in this and the basic morality that lies therein. How such the consciouss being chooses to approach the matter is another thing.

We are told many, many times over the course of the game that demons, especially lower ones, are slaves of their own nature.

We can even see how Arushelae, after abandoning her redemption quest and loosing Desna's blessing does instant 180 personality turn and goes back to being unrepentant murderer. She still remembers perfectly well everything she learned and discovered and all relationships she built with other party members while in 'good' mode but she does not care a bit. It is not how mortals work. Their may become more selfless/selfish over the course of their live, get disappointed in their ideals or choose to pursue a different one, but they can't turn into completely different person with one conscious decision.

 

[Efe]

she is absent through majority of chapter 4 (depending on when you do her quest) while shes doing that u turn

 

[Daidre]

she is absent through majority of chapter 4 (depending on when you do her quest) while shes doing that u turn

Yes, she says that over the course of chapter 4 timeskip she made her own band of demons and led them to material plane to have some fun. Imho, a bit too much for a nice girl with a crisis of faith.

 

[Haplo]

Perhaps good I made her quest yesterday just before going to Colphyr then. Though she wasn't exactly a regular party member for me anyway.

Sad that Bound of Possibility cloak (angel version) seems bugged. It was working before and was awesome, but now it appears broken (likely after I picked Everlasting Flame Heavenly Sword upgrade).

Love the dagger pair from Greybor's Assassin Guild quest. Wolfjit is even more of a murder machine with them. Sure glad I checked online and didn't miss them... like I probably would have otherwise.

Got to level 18 yesterday, picked Loremaster and finally decided to pick Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved as Secret. In the end X5 crits were too tempting. Got me to level 8 cleric/angel spells as well.

 

[Nikanuur]

We are told many, many times over the course of the game that demons, especially lower ones, are slaves of their own nature.

I believe the possibility to expand or change the "inner programming" is inherent to any consciouss being. Developing a new one as well. But I must admit, I've been reading the same thing you've mentioned throughout the game, so idk what's the real deal here. I've only an opinion, and you might know better, ok.

We can even see how Arushelae, after abandoning her redemption quest and loosing Desna's blessing does instant 180 personality turn and goes back to being unrepentant murderer. She still remembers perfectly well everything she learned and discovered and all relationships she built with other party members while in 'good' mode but she does not care a bit. It is not how mortals work. Their may become more selfless/selfish over the course of their live, get disappointed in their ideals or choose to pursue a different one, but they can't turn into completely different person with one conscious decision.

It's a sad truth that a "nice" reaction generally doesn't do that. A "bad" reaction such as hate, anger etc. can. It can send the whole mind crumbling. ...it's about the pinnacle of the pyramid of frustration, unfulfilled needs, suppressed anger, misplaced hate etc. that nobody sees at the moment.

 

[Humbaba]

My point is that demons are supposed to be the literal embodiment of evil. They are akin to a natural disaster. A demon starting to seek redemption is as likely as a tropical cyclone deciding to help undo the damage it has done to a city it has gone through. Whilst I can see direct divine intervention (Arueshalae+Desna) leading to change, I find it highly implausible that Ember would be capable of it. Yes, even with her Empyreal Lord behind her.

Sure but that's more of a setting issue. Quite apparently demons in Pathfinder have some capability to develop self-awareness and change and that's just how it is. Whether or not it would make sense for them to have that capability in the first place is another question you would have to ask Paizo.

 

[razvedchiki]

how did you build greybor Haplo?

 

[Humbaba]

Gotta say the puzzles in this game are aggressively unfun.

 

[Alienman]

Gotta say the puzzles in this game are aggressively unfun.

I don't even get the main one, the one with puzzle pieces you have to find. I place them on floor at random and suddenly open sesame.

 

[Humbaba]

It's just trial and error domino. The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

 

[Outmind]

Quick question - is it possible to have mounted characters move at the same speed as on foot ones when out of combat? I like keeping Seelah on her horse (Buttercup), but she gallops off so fast that it's annoying to keep reigning her in in fear of triggering ambushes. Both of them walk at a normal speed when she's dismounted.

 

[razvedchiki]

sent someone else with high stealth first to check out the area.

 

[Humbaba]

Pretty cool how Azata changes the midnight fane dungeon. Good to see chaotics getting shit done.

Spoiler

And boy do they get shit done. Aivu's surprise guerilla strike results in half the dungeon getting stomped by the free syrian army free crusaders, eliminating almost every otherwise mandatory encounter. Maybe we should put her in charge. Minagho doesn't get away either but I chose to spare her and sic her on her former bosses because it felt fitting to the Azata spirit. Let's hope there's gonna be no backstabbing.

But christ Galfrey is a such a cunt. Didn't tell her a word about the lexicon, so that dumbass can go die in Iz.

 

[Humbaba]

Quick question - is it possible to have mounted characters move at the same speed as on foot ones when out of combat? I like keeping Seelah on her horse (Buttercup), but she gallops off so fast that it's annoying to keep reigning her in in fear of triggering ambushes. Both of them walk at a normal speed when she's dismounted.

Just set the game to autopause whenever you find new mobs to avoid triggering encounters with her.

 

[Sharpedge]

It's just trial and error domino.

It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.

The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

 

[Whisper]

Pretty cool how Azata changes the midnight fane dungeon. Good to see chaotics getting shit done.

Spoiler

And boy do they get shit done. Aivu's surprise guerilla strike results in half the dungeon getting stomped by the free syrian army free crusaders, eliminating almost every otherwise mandatory encounter. Maybe we should put her in charge. Minagho doesn't get away either but I chose to spare her and sic her on her former bosses because it felt fitting to the Azata spirit. Let's hope there's gonna be no backstabbing.

But christ Galfrey is a such a cunt. Didn't tell her a word about the lexicon, so that dumbass can go die in Iz.

What exactly changes with Azata in this dungeon?

 

[Efe]

valhalflings raid it before you, like in a few other places like molten core (iirc)

 

[Humbaba]

It's just trial and error domino.

It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.

The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

Yeah there's hints, but whether or not you put the right piece in the right spot is pure guesswork. And the UI gets extremely in the way in sacred lands because those mobile game hand buttons keep covering up the colors. The most cancerous thing is having no idea whether the blocks need to be all the way up or down, if you guessed correctly then congratulations but that's all it is, a guess. Compare these horrible "puzzles" to just a single one from Grimrock 2 for example and you'll see the difference between an actual puzzle and a boring guessing game.

 

[Humbaba]

Pretty cool how Azata changes the midnight fane dungeon. Good to see chaotics getting shit done.

Spoiler

And boy do they get shit done. Aivu's surprise guerilla strike results in half the dungeon getting stomped by the free syrian army free crusaders, eliminating almost every otherwise mandatory encounter. Maybe we should put her in charge. Minagho doesn't get away either but I chose to spare her and sic her on her former bosses because it felt fitting to the Azata spirit. Let's hope there's gonna be no backstabbing.

But christ Galfrey is a such a cunt. Didn't tell her a word about the lexicon, so that dumbass can go die in Iz.

What exactly changes with Azata in this dungeon?

It's in the spoiler if you wanna know.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's just trial and error domino.

It isn't, there are clues to get you started, for example when you start the puzzle you usually put in some symbols on the edge of the grid. Those symbols tell you there must be "x number of symbol y" within that row/column. The presentation of the puzzle however is awful and makes it much less enjoyable than it would be if it was within a UI which was clearly designed for it.

The sacred lands puzzle is cancer too. Hope owlcat's gonna implement some real puzzles next time.

The Sacred Lands puzzle is the 1 puzzle that I actually enjoyed because the UI of the game does not get in the way of solving the puzzle. Its a fairly easy and simple puzzle which can be solved with some basic logic and doesn't take longer than like 2 minutes to complete it. Maybe 5 if its your first time doing it and you are unsure if you want all of the platforms up or all of the platforms down.

Did you do the two puzzles in demon city where you need to rotate some platforms? I tried that shit, quit and later forgot to check net for solutions. Feels like it is part of some quest and it will not work if you are outside of it.