Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Daidre]

Still, remains to be seen if it has the CMB to reliably trip endgame stuff

We already had same discussion with InEffect on Steam forum like a year ago. Turned out it is pretty reliable on everything but Unfair, and it would work even on Unfair if you share Team feats with Sacred Huntmaster for CM feats like Tandem Trip.

 

[Tacgnol]

Still, remains to be seen if it has the CMB to reliably trip endgame stuff

Trip tends to be more useful in the CRPGs because it doesn't have the full fly rules. In the PnP a lot of high level encounters seem to involve flight past a certain point.

 

[Sharpedge]

Right, if pets are using the PnP BAB progression then they have +12 BAB at level 20.

That means casting Transformation on them should grant them +16 BAB at level 20. Since pets cap out at 'level' 16.

That means they will get a fourth attack at level 20 owner level, and a third attack at level 13 owner level, while under Transformation

Usually they'll only get 3 attacks max, and the 3rd one is gained at owner level 18

Next question would be, does the dog trip on every bite, or only the first one

Tested this for you out of curiosity, you are correct about the medium BAB, but its better than you expect. Transformation gives them the caster's level as BAB, not their own. See here with a level 11 dog, before the buff:

After the buff:

BAB went from 8 to 20.

 

[NJClaw]

Right, if pets are using the PnP BAB progression then they have +12 BAB at level 20.

That means casting Transformation on them should grant them +16 BAB at level 20. Since pets cap out at 'level' 16.

That means they will get a fourth attack at level 20 owner level, and a third attack at level 13 owner level, while under Transformation

Usually they'll only get 3 attacks max, and the 3rd one is gained at owner level 18

Next question would be, does the dog trip on every bite, or only the first one

Tested this for you out of curiosity, you are correct about the medium BAB, but its better than you expect. Transformation gives them the caster's level as BAB, not their own. See here with a level 11 dog, before the buff:

After the buff:

BAB went from 8 to 20.

Ahahahahahahahahahahah THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WHAT.

This is officially my favorite bug in the entire game.

 

[Sharpedge]

Right, if pets are using the PnP BAB progression then they have +12 BAB at level 20.

That means casting Transformation on them should grant them +16 BAB at level 20. Since pets cap out at 'level' 16.

That means they will get a fourth attack at level 20 owner level, and a third attack at level 13 owner level, while under Transformation

Usually they'll only get 3 attacks max, and the 3rd one is gained at owner level 18

Next question would be, does the dog trip on every bite, or only the first one

Tested this for you out of curiosity, you are correct about the medium BAB, but its better than you expect. Transformation gives them the caster's level as BAB, not their own. See here with a level 11 dog, before the buff:

After the buff:

BAB went from 8 to 20.

Ahahahahahahahahahahah THE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WHAT.

This is officially my favorite bug in the entire game.

Wonder if in a party a 1 level dip for an animal companion is "worthwhile." Its totally a "level 20" pet with all of its attacks.

 

[Infinitron]

Got an email with link to an alpha survey:

Dear Pathfinder!
We want to ask you to stand with us and participate in the development of the Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous! Share you experience and thoughts in our survey: <redacted>

As one of the alpha testers you had an opportunity to play through 1st and 2nd Act of Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous and experience the start of the story, take your first steps on the Mythic Path, meet companions and try out new mechanics. There were some bugs here and there, some mechanics are still in their first iteration and most new archetypes are missing. So there is a lot of room for improvement where your experience can help us. Only with your help can Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous reach its full potential and take its place among greatest CRPG’s.

 

[Yosharian]

Still, remains to be seen if it has the CMB to reliably trip endgame stuff

We already had same discussion with InEffect on Steam forum like a year ago. Turned out it is pretty reliable on everything but Unfair, and it would work even on Unfair if you share Team feats with Sacred Huntmaster for CM feats like Tandem Trip.

Wild Hunt have around 60 CMD, an optimized character has around +50 CMB, I need to see evidence before I believe that a pet can reliably trip such a creature

 

[Yosharian]

Right, if pets are using the PnP BAB progression then they have +12 BAB at level 20.

That means casting Transformation on them should grant them +16 BAB at level 20. Since pets cap out at 'level' 16.

That means they will get a fourth attack at level 20 owner level, and a third attack at level 13 owner level, while under Transformation

Usually they'll only get 3 attacks max, and the 3rd one is gained at owner level 18

Next question would be, does the dog trip on every bite, or only the first one

Tested this for you out of curiosity, you are correct about the medium BAB, but its better than you expect. Transformation gives them the caster's level as BAB, not their own. See here with a level 11 dog, before the buff:

After the buff:

BAB went from 8 to 20.

Mother of god.... what have we done

 

[Yosharian]

 

[Yosharian]

OK so delving deeper into this, I would like to know the character level of the pet's owner and the caster level of the alchemist

 

[Sharpedge]

OK so delving deeper into this, I would like to know the character level of the pet's owner and the caster level of the alchemist

Pet owner was an Eldritch Knight 10, Sylvan Sorcerer 9 and Monk 1. Alchemist was caster level 20. It was just a merc I randomly hired and spam leveled up quickly to 20 to test, wasn't expecting that bug.

 

[Yosharian]

So the owner's druid level was 13, as I suspected

But the alchemist isn't granting 20 BAB as far as I can see. +30 total bonus, negative +13 from STR, leaves +17 BAB. Which is a very odd number. I don't see how that's happened at all

 

[Sharpedge]

So the owner's druid level was 13, as I suspected

But the alchemist isn't granting 20 BAB as far as I can see. +30 total bonus, negative +13 from STR, leaves +17 BAB. Which is a very odd number. I don't see how that's happened at all

Here is before and after with a hover over of the tooltip. There is no buff other than transformation active.

Spoiler

Power attack was what offset things.

 

[Yosharian]

AHHH that explains it.

Wow, holy shit. That is insane.

 

[Sarkile]

I love you guys. Take something I'm interested in, such as Owlcat's implementation of Pathfinder's pet system, and autistically break down all aspects of it over several pages. Beautiful.

 

[Elex]

Of course the answer is “it’s bugged”

 

[Sharpedge]

AHHH that explains it.

Wow, holy shit. That is insane.

Here is the same "dog" with a couple of buffs:

Spoiler

On unfair it can trip the wild hunt. This is missing any party feats.

Transformation is balanced.

Interesting stuff I wouldn't usually experiment with, playing solo and all. Very nice for a level 11 dog, if it was level 16 it would have higher stats as well. There are probably some other buffs you can throw on it, I just chucked on a couple between a Sorcerer and an Alchemist.

 

[NJClaw]

Of course the answer is “it’s bugged”

Owlcat is so above us common mortals that they decide not to implement a basic and fundamental feature such as Share Spells (that would allow a Sylvan Sorcerer to cast Transformation on his faithful doggo) and then, to compensate, they completely bork animal companions with broken unmotivated abilities bonuses and, to go even further, they allow us to use the Alchemist caster level when using Transformation through the Infusion discovery.

So, in the end, they just solved a problem through a bug. If I were developer-sexual, I would honestly let Owlcat fuck me in the ass.

 

[Yosharian]

Ok I'm impressed

So Transformation is now the most important buff to use on pets by far.

 

[Sharpedge]

Funny thing is if I had looked closer at Desiderius's screenshot 2 pages ago I would have came to the conclusion earlier. The Dog in the picture has a BAB of 19 and transformation is active, I suspect the person who cast it is a level 19 Jubilost.

 

[NJClaw]

Ok I'm impressed

So Transformation is now the most important buff to use on pets by far.

Well, it always was a very good buff for animal companions. The fact that it uses the Alchemist caster level instead of the animal HD is a bit silly, but it would be strong even if this wasn't the case. I still prefer Animal Growth and Legendary Proportions due to their durations (they give an inferior attack bonus, but you also get increased damage, HP, armor class, damage reduction and size.

 

[Desiderius]

Pretty funny to watch a whole thread reinvent every aspect of a wheel I just posted.

 

[Desiderius]

This is why I say that Okbo is Jewb’s companion.

 

[Sharpedge]

Pretty funny to watch a whole thread reinvent every aspect of a wheel I just posted.

Well its something to keep in mind for my first 1 or 2 playthroughs of WoTW, before I switch back to solo. I like to do 1 or 2 group playthroughs to see the companion arcs before going back to my preferred gameplay mode. I expect that the same bugs will probably make their way in. Not something I would notice while playing normally though.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Pretty funny to watch a whole thread reinvent every aspect of a wheel I just posted.