Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lawntoilet]

men wearing dresses shouldn't be powerful

Oh boy you done it now
Paging Pink Eye

 

[Cryomancer]

Man who needs armor and weapons should't be powerful

Fixed for you.

PS : Warlocks on 3.5e can fly, teleport, transform enemies into toads, create cold tentacles to grapple enemies in medium armor and no spell slots limitations...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Man who needs armor and weapons should't be powerful

Fixed for you.

PS : Warlocks on 3.5e can fly, teleport, transform enemies into toads, create cold tentacles to grapple enemies in medium armor and no spell slots limitations...

but they wear dresses

 

[Cryomancer]

but they wear dresses

They CAN wear, just like everyone.

 

[gurugeorge]

Further on the idea that "proper" magic has to be paired with some awareness of the forthcoming encounter, you also need a robust camping system - and the camping system in Pathfinder is to my mind a real improvement in this genre. It's also more in the spirit of these games where you're supposed to be on an adventure that does involved some travel to weird and wonderful locales.

So here I'm thinking of something like, you have a scout in the party who goes ahead and spies on the castle or whatever, and comes back to camp and gives the party - including especially the magician in the party - some idea of what to expect. Then the magician prepares a couple of appropriate high level spells. Bingo, a magic system that makes sense and is also immersive. A CRPG could do a bit of that, and a bit of weaving knowledge of what's ahead into the story itself.

 

[Sharpedge]

No, spellcasters AREN'T SUPERIOR, except in few Magocracies on Faerun(Netheril and Thay for eg), and on D&D everyone can learn magic and become a Wizard or even a Warlock. On Pathfinder, too. You need a lot of money and study but that is it.

In any fight between a caster and a non caster the caster will almost always win unless you set up scenarios specifically so that they favour the non caster. For example, "the cleric was asleep." Or, "the mage was drugged." If the caster knows the non caster is a threat to them - the non caster is dead. That is just looking at combat scenarios, outside of combat, the caster is also much more versatile. If, for the sake of roleplay here, you were some child growing up in Faerun and you could pick between learning to use a sword and learning magic, learning magic would almost always certainly be a better career opportunity. Note - I am not saying that it is bad to have a world like this, but I am saying that this is fundamentally the way the world of Faerun is.

And your example of rock paper and scissors is a awful example because they are mechanic the same. "A" always wins over "B" and loses to "C". There are no way to have variety, immersion and balance.

Is like accessibility and depth. You can't have both.

My example of Rock, Paper, Scissors was the most basic example you can get for a balanced system where not all elements are identical. It is the philosophy pvp games use for balance. But ok, if you want a bit more "meat" to the example, how about we call it Archer, Infantry, Cavalry.

We will use a basic "game" system to simulate this, with the stats armour, movement, hitpoints and attack.

• Infantry have 3 armour, 3 attack, 6 hitpoints, 1 movement.
• Cavalry have 2 armour, 3 attack, 8 hitpoints, 6 movement.
• Archers have 1 armour, 4 attack, 4 hitpoints, 1 movement.

Units always start 6 spaces apart. A unit can either move or attack during its turn, it cannot do both. Damage dealt to HP = Attack - Armour. The winner is the first one to reduce the opponent to 0 HP.

• Infantry vs Cavalry - Infantry always wins (the Cavalry never pierces the Infantry's Armour)
• Cavalry vs Archers - Cavalry always wins
• Archers vs Infantry - Archers always win.

Its the same idea as rock paper scissors but with actual "game mechanics." This is the principle used to balance PVP games, although usually it is more nuanced. For example, class A will hard counter Class B, but will only have a slight advantage vs Class C and be on even ground vs Class D. The idea is the system as a whole is balanced, even if individual match ups are not. It is entirely possible for a game to be both balanced and to have deep mechanics as well as fun game play. Just because it is exceptionally difficult to do (and not something to expect in a single player game, there is no reason for balance to exist in a single player game since there is no competition), doesn't mean that it is not possible. These aren't mutually exclusive terms.

People who enjoy solving every problem, from a knight on plate armor to a iron golem with a fast swinging blade already has 652.64156415649 games to play. Why a single game being great to arcane fans is a bad thing? When the game is far easier to solo as a melee warrior(mainly on chapter 1)

If by this game, you mean Pathfinder, it is absolutely not easier to play solo with a melee warrior. I have soloed it 4 times, I have my own experience to show for it.

 

[Yosharian]

What DOES impact me, is when people go around telling others that mercs are somehow better than the companions. Which gives noobs the wrong impression. Countless community members within the Pathfinder community have documented several strong builds for companions. I don't need to be no damned Ineffect to tell you that some of the companions are stronger than what you an do with mercs.

1) Does it really impact you, though?
2) Mercs are better than companions. That doesn't mean companions aren't good enough for the game. But it does mean that munchkins get less enjoyment from using them.
3) Jaethal is the only companion who has something that mercs can't get. And she's lumbered with a shitty domain.

 

[Cryomancer]

In any fight between a caster and a non caster the caster will almost always win unless you set up scenarios specifically so that they favour the non caster.

Wrong. If the caster is unprepared(and he can't have all buffs 24/7), a sneaky rogue can end his life in one round.

If you put a fighter with a warbow and poisoned arrows vs a high level sorcerer on 2e at long range, depends. If both sees the enemy at the same time, who wins the initiative wins the combat since the sorcerer can nuke the fighter in one round and the fighter can nuke the low hit dice of sorc in one round. On a RTWP 3.5e adaptation, unless the sorcerer pass 4 concentration checks, he wins. IF he fails the 4 concentration checks, he loses.

People generally put well rested arcane casters vs a fighter at long range and the fighter has only a sword. Give then at least a trowing javelin. And spoiler, any high level class with ranged capabilities would kill a fighter at 200m without ranged capabilities. A fighter archer with deadly poisoned arrows and stealth can be insanely deadly even without considering magical warbows. And again you gave me NO SOLUTIONS TO THIS NON PROBLEM. What OwlCat should made to casters? Ruins then completely so everyone who wanna to play as one will play with mods like spell fixes for nwn2? Make the game like Pathfinder 2e or D&D 4e???

between learning to use a sword and learning magic, learning magic would almost always certainly be a better career opportunity

Do you know that other martial weapons exists? And are far more effective vs wild animals and armor than swords?

Swords are probably the most overestimated and overrated weapon on the history.

This is the principle used to balance PVP games, although usually it is more nuanced. For example, class A will hard counter Class B, but will only have a slight advantage vs Class C and be on even ground vs Class D. The idea is the system as a whole is balanced

Well, PAthfinder Wrath of The righteous is not a PvP game. WHY should i care if a pun pun build from a guy playing 30 000 km from my home could end the a boss that i had a hard time in one round and another guys is doing a weird naked barbarian challenge run?

If by this game, you mean Pathfinder, it is absolutely not easier to play solo with a melee warrior. I have soloed it 4 times, I have my own experience to show for it.

Not easier? First link on google research pathfinder best class solo
Top awnser? Martial class https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/af0kq6/best_build_to_solo_game/

 

[Pink Eye]

>Does it really impact you, though?
Yes. I love playing Pathfinder. But I also love talking about Pathfinder. It affects me specifically because it impacts discourse surrounding Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

WHY should i care if a pun pun build from a guy playing 30 000 km from my home could end the a boss that i had a hard time in one round and another guys is doing a weird naked barbarian challenge run?

because devs will end up balancing the game around this shit

 

[Desiderius]

Spoiler

https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/island.html

 

[Cryomancer]

because devs will end up balancing the game around this shit

You can beat PFKM on normal with any pure RP build; and PFKM is a party based game, so your party will probably have some martial and some casters.

The game is not designed around pun pun builds except on unfair.

 

[NJClaw]

I understand people are not going to like the companions. That's fine. It won't impact me. Just as how it doesn't impact me when people say they don't like Kingmaker. What DOES impact me, is when people go around telling others that mercs are somehow better than the companions. Which gives noobs the wrong impression. Countless community members within the Pathfinder community have documented several strong builds for companions. I don't need to be no damned Ineffect to tell you that some of the companions are stronger than what you an do with mercs.

On the companions topic you always reach unprecedented levels of autism (and I'm also counting the monk stuff!).

Yes, somebody in the past wrongly said that mercenaries are stronger than premade companions and hurt you. Fine, get over it. Nobody is saying that right now.

We aren't saying that companions need to be thrown in the trash because they are useless and you should always use mercenaries because they are stronger. We aren't saying that, but you are answering us as if we were. You need to start reading what people write and stop replaying to months or years old stuff that somehow hurt you.

 

[Cyberarmy]

LoL, mythic feats are really good. Just got the ones that changes spell durations to 24 hour yesterday. 24 h blur, shield, archon's aura and etc.

 

[Lawntoilet]

LoL, mythic feats are really good. Just got the ones that changes spell durations to 24 hour yesterday. 24 h blur, shield, archon's aura and etc.

The feats are awesome but that's not how that one's supposed to work, pretty sure it only extends spells to 24h if their duration is already 1h or greater.
I took the Extra Level 1-3 Spell Slots one on some of my characters, it's been pretty great.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Finally recruited Regill, dude is a total Tier 1 Operator. I was skeptical of the Gnome Hellknight thing but his personality seems awesome so far.
Not sure about his build, never used double-weapons before.

 

[Sarkile]

Finally recruited Regill, dude is a total Tier 1 Operator. I was skeptical of the Gnome Hellknight thing but his personality seems awesome so far.
Not sure about his build, never used double-weapons before.

There's a really good weapon for him at the merchant.

 

[NJClaw]

BG2 is only considered superior by people who go for Aerie

Also BG1 is only considered superior by people who go for Aerie.

Because everyone goes for Aerie. The other romance options are only urban legends that nobody ever even tried.

 

[Lawntoilet]

BG2 is only considered superior by people who go for Aerie

Also BG1 is only considered superior by people who go for Aerie.

Because everyone goes for Aerie. The other romance options are only urban legends that nobody ever even tried.

Maybe if you're a gnome. Otherwise you go for Viconia.

 

[Cyberarmy]

pretty sure it only extends spells to 24h if their duration is already 1h or greater.

First one you get is for 1hour ones then you get the greater version of it which extends 5 min buffs too. Wonder if that'll work on summons.

 

[Pink Eye]

NJClaw This is the notion that I am presenting. Mercs are inferior to companions. In every conceivable way. Period. They lessen one's enjoyment and hamper the overall experience. This entire argument started over the idea that people did not like the companions in Wrath, and would rather instead opt for mercs. Which then defaulted back to Kingmaker.

The very subject in which we're currently discussing is about whether or not mercs provide a better alternative to build making than the story companions. I've outlined in my prior post that they don't. I've specifically showcased how I was able to make someone like Valerie into a decent ranged damage dealer.

 

[Xamenos]

Yes, somebody in the past wrongly said that mercenaries are stronger than premade companions and hurt you. Fine, get over it. Nobody is saying that right now.

2) Mercs are better than companions. That doesn't mean companions aren't good enough for the game. But it does mean that munchkins get less enjoyment from using them.

Nobody is saying that right now.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

death to munchkins

 

[NJClaw]

Yes, somebody in the past wrongly said that mercenaries are stronger than premade companions and hurt you. Fine, get over it. Nobody is saying that right now.

2) Mercs are better than companions. That doesn't mean companions aren't good enough for the game. But it does mean that munchkins get less enjoyment from using them.

Nobody is saying that right now.

I was referring to the discussion between Pink Eye and dacencora. The Yosharian post you are quoting was in response to Pink Eye already talking about that stuff when the only points made by other participants were about not liking companions writing and voice actors.

If this has to be a "mercenaries vs. companions" from an optimization point of view, companions are obviously better than mercenaries most of the times, but that wasn't the original point.

 

[razvedchiki]

turbo nerd wars the reckoning, or why apples taste different than oranges.