Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Takamori]

Arriving late to this party, WotR will start from lvl 20 and go do epic stuff just like NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer or its 1 to 20 and then epic progression or whatever its called in Pathfinder system.

 

[Sharpedge]

Arriving late to this party, WotR will start from lvl 20 and go do epic stuff just like NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer or its 1 to 20 and then epic progression or whatever its called in Pathfinder system.

Neither, its 2 separate leveling systems which increase simultaneously. You level from 1-20 in your main classes and at the same time level from 1-10 in your mythic class.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Anyways to bring it back on topic of the Alpha, did Owlcat make any additions/amendments/fixes to the existing classes/spells too? Sounds like paladins can have mount bond, but for instance do druids have new wildshape options and woodland stride, and summon monster/ally spells different or new options?

Other than the new archetypes, I don't think there have been many additions to the classes from Kingmaker. The only one I've noticed is the Mount Bond option.

Arriving late to this party, WotR will start from lvl 20 and go do epic stuff just like NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer or its 1 to 20 and then epic progression or whatever its called in Pathfinder system.

Neither, it's level 1-20 but you start getting "Mythic Levels" sprinkled in throughout, based on story events. Your first Mythic Level should be around level 6.

 

[Cryomancer]

You are assuming the mage has no time to react, at all

Mages are supposed to have to be prepared. About stoneskin, On 3.5e it is only DR 10/+5, so is no longer powerful like 2e. Mages received a lot of nerfs from 2e to 3.5e while everything got 2~5x more hp.

And let me ask you, WHAT GAME MADE MAGES RIGHT FOR YOU? You never answered that question. Do you know why? Every game who tried to balance then destroyed then. I saw most specializations and all prestige classes being destroyed on nwn1, all specializations being destroyed on nwn2, ddo ruining every arcane caster, except the real money expensive warlock, PoE 1/2 with extremely lackluster mages(...)

The main exception to this is Kineticist soloes. I challenge you to find me a solo with a fighter, barbarian, paladin or rogue. Go on, I am waiting

Sword Saint is literally the most popular unfair solo build

Here is one. 5 attacks with 48~104 damage and a critical range of 17~20. That is 240~520 damage per round. THE MINIMUM DAMAGE THAT HE CAN DO IS GREATER THAN A MAXIMIZED/EMPOWERED TSUNAMI (and note that tsunami is extremely nerfed compared to P&P which has a persistent effect)

source > https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1858063345

Now, how about instead of trying to represent the interest of the "solo player" for which it seems you have no experience and are in no position to provide an opinion on, you actually listen to the solo player. You might actually learn something. Sorcerer, Wizard, Druid and Cleric are not martial classes, even if you can default attack with them. So saying, "most of the solos are with martial classes" is outright lying when the majority of them will fall into those 4 classes, with the second highest group being Magus, Kineticist and Vivisectionist and the reason that most of these classes are picked is because they have spells, its not because they use weapons

You are lying. Soloing as a sorcerer has a huge problem. RESTING.

It is not a problem in icewind dale.

Your problem is that everything that can cast a minor spell is a magician for you. A magus is not a pure arcane caster. Is a half caster. And Pathfinder is a party based game, a cleric is far more hard to replace than a sorcerer. You don't see arcane fans wanting to be able to heal and cast death ward/freedom of movement with arcane spells.

Alchemists and kineticists aren't casters either. Alchemy is not magic. Alchemy and infusions ignore spell resistance. They aren't magic mechanic wise or lore wise.

---------------------------------

Complain about magic in a high fantasy game is like complain about guns in a fallout game. There are already literally every mainstream JRPG and 99% of modern games to people who wanna solve everything from a knight on plate armor to a giantic steel construct/robot with a fast swinging blade. I wanna use powerful spells on Pathfinder WoTR just like i wanna use powerful firearms on fallout.

 

[Lawntoilet]

The main exception to this is Kineticist soloes. I challenge you to find me a solo with a fighter, barbarian, paladin or rogue. Go on, I am waiting

Sword Saint is literally the most popular unfair solo build

You are lying. Soloing as a sorcerer has a huge problem. RESTING.

I wanna use powerful spells on Pathfinder WoTR just like i wanna use powerful firearms on fallout.

Sword Saint is a caster, it isn't any of the classes he listed.
Resting is harder in PF than in IWD but it still isn't a huge hurdle, it's very possible to get lots of rests and keep your spells up.
You CAN use powerful spells in WotR, and there are Mythic feats that give you more spell slots, improve specific spells (like Mage Armor), and make your buff spells last way longer, so just relax already dude.

 

[Sharpedge]

Mages are supposed to have to be prepared. About stoneskin, On 3.5e it is only DR 10/+5, so is no longer powerful like 2e. Mages received a lot of nerfs from 2e to 3.5e while everything got 2~5x more hp.

The point is, if the caster gets to cast, he has probably already won. Dimension door out of the range of the attacker, cast other defensive spells while the attacker closes in, or just go and nuke. The caster has plenty of options, they just need the opportunity to use them.

You are assuming the mage has no time to react, at all

And let me ask you, WHAT GAME MADE MAGES RIGHT FOR YOU? You never answered that question. Do you know why? Every game who tried to balance then destroyed then. I saw most specializations and all prestige classes being destroyed on nwn1, all specializations being destroyed on nwn2, ddo ruining every arcane caster, except the real money expensive warlock, PoE 1/2 with extremely lackluster mages(...)

Because it is not relevant to this argument. The answer is complicated however and I would say, "it depends what type of caster the game is trying to simulate." A reality bending wizard? Probably whichever game has the most broken spellcaster available.

Sword Saint is literally the most popular unfair solo build

Here is one. 5 attacks with 48~104 damage and a critical range of 17~20. That is 240~520 damage per round. THE MINIMUM DAMAGE THAT HE CAN DO IS GREATER THAN A MAXIMIZED/EMPOWERED TSUNAMI (and note that tsunami is extremely nerfed compared to P&P which has a persistent effect)

source > https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1858063345

1. Sword Saint, last I checked is a half caster. It has spells.
2. It is not the most popular, even a cursory look on google will tell you that (if you are going to try argue by popularity, maybe try googling and then sort by view count or something).
3. Why should Tasunami (An AoE spell) do as much damage to a single enemy as a single target attack. Lets say there are 20 enemies in a room. You have a choice between casting Tsunami or using Haplo's Default attack. Which will deal more damage? I leave it to you to decide.

I am seeing lots of full casters on this list. Last I checked Sorcerers have access to level 9 spells.

You are lying. Soloing as a sorcerer has a huge problem. RESTING.

It is not a problem in icewind dale.

Your problem is that everything that can cast a minor spell is a magician for you. A magus is not a pure arcane caster. Is a half caster. And Pathfinder is a party based game, a cleric is far more hard to replace than a sorcerer. You don't see arcane fans wanting to be able to heal and cast death ward/freedom of movement with arcane spells.

Here is 1 of my characters from solo unfair, happens to be a sorcerer:

Spoiler

It was not fully optimized, there were a lot of things I could have done better but I chose not to do for "character flavor reasons." At the time I made this character the Tiefling DLC had just been released and I wanted to see what reactivity there was (if any) to playing as a tiefling, so I built my character with some restrictions. Here was incidentally how many days I had left at the end of act 5:

Spoiler

Unfortunately for you, I made a save every time my characters leveled up, so I can go back and show you just how much time you do in reality have. Here is my character, right at the end of act 1:

Spoiler

It doesn't seem like there is a huge problem to me, there is plenty of time to do whatever the heck you like, in fact at the end of the game on this character I had to skip through over 200 days because there was nothing left to do. Just because I don't record every second of my gameplay like some other people and share it with the entire world, doesn't mean I don't know how to play the game.

Your problem is that everything that can cast a minor spell is a magician for you. A magus is not a pure arcane caster. Is a half caster. And Pathfinder is a party based game, a cleric is far more hard to replace than a sorcerer. You don't see arcane fans wanting to be able to heal and cast death ward/freedom of movement with arcane spells.

These are all casters and just because it happens to be more efficient in terms of action economy to use a caster to do melee damage doesn't take away from that fact. A martial class is a class that cannot cast spells.

 

[jungl]

They need to add grappling in the game if they add turn based. Its really funny having strength chads wrestle dangerous spell casters making them useless. It would also make solo runs a lot more infuriating.

 

[Rat King]

This thread is the purest form of autism.

 

[Ghulgothas]

This thread is the purest form of autism.

Isn't that why we're all here?

 

[Rat King]

This thread is the purest form of autism.

Isn't that why we're all here?

It was fun at first, now it's getting a bit too autistic for my tastes.

 

[Cryomancer]

You CAN use powerful spells in WotR, and there are Mythic feats that give you more spell slots, improve specific spells (like Mage Armor), and make your buff spells last way longer, so just relax already dude.

You are right· To the despair of balance cultists, magic will be great on one game after decades of lackluster magic. we will have a game with decent magic.

These are all casters and just because it happens to be more efficient in terms of action economy to use a caster to do melee damage doesn't take away from that fact. A martial class is a class that cannot cast spells.

No, are not. A bomb is not subjected to arcane failure in any armor or in anti magical field. Alchemy is not magic. A bomb on pathfinder is not that different than a grenade IRL. Infusion is a power more akin to psionics than to magic. In fact, on D&D a mind flayer arcanist and a psionic mind flayer are completely different creatures.

Because it is not relevant to this argument. The answer is complicated however and I would say, "it depends what type of caster the game is trying to simulate." A reality bending wizard? Probably whichever game has the most broken spellcaster available.

If you are pointing a """problem""", i wanna know what is the solution? I an not against giving warcries and more cool stuff to martial classes, a decapitation skill, something akin to Overlord's martial arts but everyone who wanna put balance above everything else that i meet here just wanna another fast swinging blade festival where nothing else matters.

 

[Xamenos]

This thread is the purest form of autism.

Isn't that why we're all here?

I don't know, I like my autism just a bit diluted.

 

[Sharpedge]

No, are not. A bomb is not subjected to arcane failure in any armor or in anti magical field. Alchemy is not magic. A bomb on pathfinder is not that different than a grenade IRL. Infusion is a power more akin to psionics than to magic. In fact, on D&D a mind flayer arcanist and a psionic mind flayer are completely different creatures.

Which is great, except this isn't why people are playing Alchemists. The Alchemists which are soloing the game happen to be Vivisectionists and the reason people are playing them is due to a combination of how sneak attacks are implemented and access to useful utility low level spells like shield, haste, protection from energy, etc, as well as the high stat boosts they can achieve. Same goes for Sword Saint, it can get most of the good utility spells available to a full caster, without making too many drastic sacrifices on their spell lists. If spells like Timestop and Chain Contingency were in the game, there would likely be almost nobody playing half casters when soloing the game because the "sacrifice" of higher level spells would be much more penalizing.

If you are pointing a """problem""", i wanna know what is the solution? I an not against giving warcries and more cool stuff to martial classes, a decapitation skill, something akin to Overlord's martial arts but everyone who wanna put balance above everything else that i meet here just wanna another fast swinging blade festival where nothing else matters.

For this type of game? The solution is probably to leave casters as is. The game is designed to appeal to people who like playing powerful casters, which means the best way to go would be to have them, but also have enemy casters of similar strength. The only real way for melee to "not feel left out" however would be for there to be powerful unique items that help bridge the gap, short of making melee less fighters and more casters, which undermines the principle of what a sword and board warrior is.

The type of RPG I personally want does not exist, but it is unreasonable to expect the entire world of RPG developers to bow to my whims and make my ideal game, so I try to appreciate other people's vision instead.

 

[toroks]

Will be interesting to see if the bugs and broken mechanics they never got around to fix in Kingmaker will just follow through to WotR.

You who are alpha testing, don't forget to report the good old bugs too

Like UMD not working on equipment (Blessed Path, anyone?), Crane Wing (feat) working with no free hands, magical vestment (spell) not working at all on shields (and not as it should on armor) etc. etc. So annoying that they never fix these things

 

[Infinitron]

Hail to the Queens: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2843353

Interview With the Queen

The Absalom Reporter presents its readers with an exclusive interview with Queen Galfrey, ruler of the northern kingdom of Mendev, leader of the crusaders guarding the borders of the Worldwound, and illustrious servant of Iomedae.

Greetings, Your Highness! Thank you for agreeing to this interview.

Greetings to you and your readers. I don't usually have time to converse with bards, chroniclers, or the press, but if this interview attracts even a handful of new recruits to the ranks of the crusaders, then it is my pleasure.

Today you are famed throughout Golarion as one of the leading lights of the church of Iomedae. Many people call you "the Sword of Iomedae." However, some of our readers will be unaware that you started out as a paladin of another deity, Aroden, who was taken from us, to the profound sadness of all his faithful.

That is correct. Sometimes even I am surprised by how young the church of Iomedae is. And by how long we have been without Aroden. The beginning of the last century was a difficult time for me. I had lost my father and my god, I was crowned queen, and then the gates to the plane of chaos burst open right on the borders of my kingdom. Iomedae took up her heavenly post at that time, shouldering the heavy burden of protecting all mortalkind as Aroden did before her. My faith in Iomedae was my salvation. If you will permit me to wax poetic, finding my faith in Iomedae was like drowning in a raging sea and suddenly finding granite beneath my feet, raising me up. That’s what my faith in Iomedae means to me.

That leads us to our next question. You are more than one hundred years old, Your Highness. There are few substances on Golarion capable of extending the natural lifespan of any given race. It is assumed that you use one of these substances to prolong your life: the extremely costly and extremely rare sun orchid elixir.

I make no secret of it. The decision was taken by the church of Iomedae. You can ask the leaders of the church for further comment if you wish to know more about the reasons behind the decision. But the long and short of it is that the church feared the disorder that a change in leadership would bring while Mendev was embroiled in a war against the demons. For myself personally, this forced longevity is not a boon, it is a necessity, one that is bound up with my duties as the leader of the crusade.

Your Highness, our next question may seem provocative, but we would be remiss not to ask it. Many of your political opponents see your prolonged life as a power play. Some even go so far as to claim that you are exploiting the situation with the demon invasion to hold onto the throne of Mendev, your youth, and control over the flow of money funding the crusades from wealthy supporters.

My "political opponents" clearly have a low opinion of both my moral rectitude and my intelligence. Amassing power in a country that at any moment could be wiped off the face of Golarion by hordes of demons from the Abyss? I would rightly call a fool anyone who came up with such a scheme. And I say "fool" rather than use more strident language that is beneath the dignity of a monarch.

That is not an outright denial, Your Highness.

You would prefer a more direct answer? Then, of course, I deny it. I am not selfishly holding on to the reins of power, I am not treating the crusade coffers as my own personal bank, and I have no intention of living forever. Whoever is making these wild claims clearly has no understanding of the concept of duty. I, however, do. I have a sacred duty to my people, to my goddess, and to all Golarion.

The other argument that is often put forth in these debates is that Mendev is hosting too many foreign fighters. Volunteers flock here from all across Golarion to fight in the crusade. Crusaders do not answer to the government of Mendev, but to you personally, as the figurehead of the crusade movement and the leader of the paladins of Iomedae.

I must correct you on that point—the troops fighting in the crusade do not all answer to me directly. Far from it, in fact. For instance, the Hellknights are wholly independent and act as an allied force. I merely coordinate the actions of all the crusade troops.

And yet you still wield considerable influence over this massive military force.

Remind me to make your newspaper office my first target when I reveal my true visage and declare myself the tyrannical eternal queen of the entire continent. But that moment has not yet arrived, alas. Until then, I must continue battling the unending hordes of the Abyss. And thank Heaven that across all Golarion there are brave souls who are willing to leave hearth and home to defend our world.

It must take a special kind of person to do that.

Yes. Indeed it does.

Thank you for taking part in this interview, Your Highness.

Conducted exclusively for The Absalom Reporter by Dessi Kiess.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Will be interesting to see if the bugs and broken mechanics they never got around to fix in Kingmaker will just follow through to WotR.

You who are alpha testing, don't forget to report the good old bugs too

Like UMD not working on equipment (Blessed Path, anyone?), Crane Wing (feat) working with no free hands, magical vestment (spell) not working at all on shields (and not as it should on armor) etc. etc. So annoying that they never fix these things

The Alpha has several bugs I've reported, things like extra domains (and archetypes that grant domain powers to classes that don't normally get them) not working, and some weird lighting effects in some areas when you cast a spell, but overall it's definitely less buggy than Kingmaker was on release.
Haven't encountered any items like Blessed Path to check with UMD and didn't take Crane Wing on any characters but I do have Magical Vestment and will take a look at it to see if it's been fixed next time I fire up the game.

I don't usually have time to converse with bards, chroniclers, or the press

Oh really Galfrey? You've got plenty of time to sit around camp "undercover" while telling your life story and flirting with your new commander.

 

[Sharpedge]

This thread is the purest form of autism.

Not yet it isn't, I am only warming up!

 

[toroks]

Will be interesting to see if the bugs and broken mechanics they never got around to fix in Kingmaker will just follow through to WotR.

You who are alpha testing, don't forget to report the good old bugs too

Like UMD not working on equipment (Blessed Path, anyone?), Crane Wing (feat) working with no free hands, magical vestment (spell) not working at all on shields (and not as it should on armor) etc. etc. So annoying that they never fix these things

The Alpha has several bugs I've reported, things like extra domains (and archetypes that grant domain powers to classes that don't normally get them) not working, and some weird lighting effects in some areas when you cast a spell, but overall it's definitely less buggy than Kingmaker was on release.
Haven't encountered any items like Blessed Path to check with UMD and didn't take Crane Wing on any characters but I do have Magical Vestment and will take a look at it to see if it's been fixed next time I fire up the game.

Cool I imagine the devs have a greater incentive for getting a smooth, fresh release than patching on the old and forgotten.

To be more specific, Magical Vestment did nothing on shields, while giving +3 AC on every armor (no matter if it was +1, +2 or what) and ignoring bracers of armor.

 

[Rat King]

This thread is the purest form of autism.

Not yet it isn't, I am only warming up!

At least you're a good sport.

 

[Cryomancer]

For this type of game? The solution is probably to leave casters as is. The game is designed to appeal to people who like playing powerful casters, which means the best way to go would be to have them, but also have enemy casters of similar strength. The only real way for melee to "not feel left out" however would be for there to be powerful unique items that help bridge the gap, short of making melee less fighters and more casters, which undermines the principle of what a sword and board warrior is.

The type of RPG I personally want does not exist, but it is unreasonable to expect the entire world of RPG developers to bow to my whims and make my ideal game, so I try to appreciate other people's vision instead.

Now i strongly agree. I won't deny that PURE MARTIAL classes without any type of psionics, alchemy, spells, spell-like abilities, etc; are extremely lackluster HOWEVER, or you give "superpowers" to martial classes, or you take out everything that makes casters great. I an not against giving warcries to barbarians, allowing some combat maneuvers like decapitations which would work mechanic wise more similar to a finger of death spell, supernatural auras and so on. But i an against transforming the caster into the generic mmo balanced caster Nº 656541654168.

Considering how the Count could slay a army with a single casting of cloudkill, which one thing represent the cloudkill better mechanic wise?

A ) 15m range, Is a spell where everyone from LV X learns, it deals 1600% of the size and sharpness of your axe in damage, lasts 10 seconds, has 120 second cooldown and the poison damage works even on undeads and constructs(That would be a Diablo 3 way to implement the spell)

B )

This spell generates a bank of fog, similar to a fog cloud, except that its vapors are yellowish green and poisonous. These vapors automatically kill any living creature with 3 or fewer HD (no save). A living creature with 4 to 6 HD is slain unless it succeeds on a Fortitude save (in which case it takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud).

A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one’s breath doesn’t help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell.

Unlike a fog cloud, the cloudkill moves away from you at 10 feet per round, rolling along the surface of the ground.

Figure out the cloud’s new spread each round based on its new point of origin, which is 10 feet farther away from the point of origin where you cast the spell.

Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater.
source https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cloudkill/

There are very few modern games which offers a immersive experience.

 

[Efe]

Choose

• Strong warlocks while every other caster is castrated
• Magic is how you like it except warlocks are shit and tentacles grapple like a kobold

 

[Lawntoilet]

Does anyone know if there is any documentation about how the army combat system works (what the situation rolls mean, etc.)?
I think I have a basic understanding just from dicking around with it but nothing deeper than that.

 

[Cryomancer]

Lawntoilet IDK if they will follow this rules but here is https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/mass-combat/

 

[gurugeorge]

I hesitate to bring up the topic of mercs again, as that seems to have died down, but I've thought of a good reason to at least have one or two mercs in your party, even if you also like companions.

It's that you can stretch out the companion stories and banter that way - depending on how you play the game it's quite easy to exhaust all the banter and companion story lines by about half-way through the game, and always having one or two mercs in the team gets around that.

And of course the added benefit is that you can mix it up wrt playstyle (but I suppose that only works if you're not the sort of person who likes to stick to one particular party composition). Changing up playstyle and trying to build teams that work well together is itself a form of gameplay too, after all.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I like necroposting, too.

I think the choice of mercs vs. companions is about adding some challenge to the game on top of the usual difficulty settings. From the min-maxing point of view only 3 or 4 companions are really good, so an optimiser (like InEffect) will strive to hire more convenient toons. On the other hand, as Desiderius has demonstrated plenty of times, it is eintirely possible to go through the game on Unfair with companions only. It requires more effort, but provides more game.

My ideal party would be the one that can autowin on Unfair. Unfortunately, I do not think it is possible without A.I. scripting.