Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lacrymas]

Arcane casters can be cheese even without the 7-9 spell circles? Unbelievable! Nobody mentioned this before now or even knew about it! And why exactly are we talking about Unfair? That mode has ridiculously bloated stats, it's not representative of the system at all.

 

[Desiderius]

Don't know if that could work, though, you probably know better than me.

This is Eldritch Scoundrel using it against Fire-Immune mob:

So yeah, pretty good bet it would work.

 

[Daidre]

That there are enough options even at lvl 3. Limiting the spell circles to 6 is not a big deal.

Why someone would play wizard over alchemist? Alchemists has way more powerful stuff and can cast circle 6. Please. Go play a game as a pure arcane caster before having sawyerism ideas

Don't drag Mr Sawyer into that discussion. Lacrymas argues that Pathfinder is bloated, high levels are boring and spellcasters are overpowered and should be nerfed only for the sake of BG 3. Because he shill for it with all his heart but deep inside knows that with lvl 10 cap and castrated 5e it will look like utter shit in comparison to WotR, in the scope of character-building options at least.

 

[Reinhardt]

Wait, bg3 is tb AND with lvl 10 cap? Incline!

 

[Anonona]

Don't know if that could work, though, you probably know better than me.

This is Eldritch Scoundrel using it against Fire-Immune mob:

View attachment 13215

So yeah, pretty good bet it would work.

Thanks for the pic. Damn, that's pretty crazy.

 

[Cryomancer]

Oh, c'mon, you said it was not possible, just showed you it could, even if is hard. And it is one hitting the guy, literally killing it in one blow! Is hard but kind of neat.

Yep. It is possible. I just said that is not representative of the average gamer.

Most of caster cheese is only possible due to poor a.i. Instead of nerfing casters they should improve the response of the a.i. to spells. I think that would eliminate a large case of the "casters are easy mode" stuff. It's a shame that there is barely any progress in that area.

This. And applies to non casters too. Why enemies walk in the direction of Deadly Earth?

Wait, bg3 is tb AND with lvl 10 cap? Incline!

Solasta will be lv cap = 10 too.

So people who wanna autoattack with fast swinging blades and never face a enemy like a lich or a adult dragon, can have that experience. But let people who wanna a true pathfinder experience have that experience. I can't play as a powerful sorcerer in any other modern game.

Don't drag Mr Sawyer into that discussion. Lacrymas argues that Pathfinder is bloated, high levels are boring and spellcasters are overpowered and should be nerfed only for the sake of BG 3. Because he shill for it with all his heart but deep inside knows that with 10lvl cap and castrated 5e it will look like utter shit in comparison to WotR, in the scope of character-building options at least.

I an bringing him to the discussion exactly because spell casting on their most recent games are TRASH. You can't do anything interesting. Even with a 9th tier spell. And a perk that gives 3% damage reduction from shock on outer worlds is muh balanced.

Last time WoTC listened to this "lets nerf everything" crowde, we got D&D 4e. And Pathfinder 2e is trash exactly by listening to the same crowd. What makes Pathfinder and D&D great is that new classes are made by the new class fans. So you don't have a team deciding on butchering everything. You have caster fans designing casters, kineticist fans designing kineticists and so on. Lets be honest, if was up to myself to design the fighter class in a TTRPG, it would be so awful as if Lacrymas design a sorcerer class.

 

[Lacrymas]

Lacrymas argues that Pathfinder is bloated, high levels are boring and spellcasters are overpowered and should be nerfed

I don't see the lie. This has nothing to do with BG3 though, you are projecting.

 

[Reinhardt]

I can't play as a powerful sorcerer in any other modern game.

EVERY modern game has awesome button, so you can play as a powerful sorcerer in ANY modern game. it doesn't even need to be an rpg.

 

[Reinhardt]

So you don't have a team deciding on butchering everything. You have caster fans designing casters, kineticist fans designing kineticists and so on.

Sorry, but YOUR sorcerer class sound boring as fuck. You are not trying to make him interesting, just OP.

 

[Cryomancer]

EVERY modern game has awesome button, so you can play as a powerful sorcerer in ANY modern game. it doesn't even need to be an rpg.

Powerful spell is not awesome button. A end game spell which a scroll costs more than 2 legendary items and can only be used once per long rest is not a awesome button. But for some people here, it needs to be removed(and they ignore that a weapon of the same cost is arguably more powerful on 5e)

Sorry, but YOUR sorcerer class sound boring as fuck. You are not trying to make him interesting, just OP.

No, my sorcerer class would have limitations that makes sense for the bloodline in question. Eg, red/gold draconic bloodline would means that the sorcerer can't learn any spell with "cold" descriptor and get vulnerability to cold, the spells that he can chose to learn will be smaller but the bloodline would give more fix spells, among other tweaks. That way, you will not have silver draconic sorcerers casting maximized sirrocos.

That would be cool and fit the lore. Taking out all good stuff of a class is not a good thing.

 

[Reinhardt]

A end game spell which a scroll costs more than 2 legendary items and can only be used once per long rest is not a awesome button.

Yes - it's TWO awesome buttons. Rest and then spell.

 

[Lacrymas]

It is an awesome button. There are plenty of powerful spells in the 1-6 range that don't rearrange the universe and enable cheat codes. And "once per rest" lol as if that means anything in most video game adaptations.

 

[Anonona]

You have caster fans designing casters, kineticist fans designing kineticists and so on. Lets be honest, if was up to myself to design the fighter class in a TTRPG, it would be so awful as if Lacrymas design a sorcerer class.

Tell that to Monte Cook https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Monte_Cook

 

[NJClaw]

I mean, on 3.5e, the rule to summoning is that you can control your caster level * 2 hit dice worth of creatures. That means that a Efreet with 10 hit dices can't be controled by any caster with lesser level than 5. And a lv 15 sorcerer can control up to 30 1 hit dice skeletons or 3 Efreets. That limit IMO should be on Pathfinder wrath of the righteous. Dread necromancer is the exception to that rule. He can have HD * 4 controlled undeads.

I'm fairly sure no such rule exists in 3.5. I'm ready to bet 1.000.000 Ontopolies on this.

 

[Cryomancer]

It is an awesome button. There are plenty of powerful spells in the 1-6 range that don't rearrange the universe and enable cheat codes. And "once per rest" lol as if that means anything in most video game adaptations.

Another proof that you never played as a sorcerer/wizard on kingmaker. You believe that you don't need to manage your spell slots and resting on kingmaker...

And again i ask you. Name one spell which rearrange the universe or enable cheat codes. Ice Prison, Mass is my favorite tier 9 spell and is not broken. Some times i use maximized sirroco over it.

I'm fairly sure no such rule exists in 3.5. I'm ready to bet 1.000.000 Ontopolies on this.

Animate dead "you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit." https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animate_Dead

"
In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate dead spell to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell)." https://www.dndtools.net/classes/dread-necromancer/

Tell that to Monte Cook https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Monte_Cook

If was up to him to design fighters, it would be worse than actually is on 3e.

That guy should be working with mage the ascension; just like some people here should be working on no magic games.

 

[NJClaw]

It is an awesome button. There are plenty of powerful spells in the 1-6 range that don't rearrange the universe and enable cheat codes. And "once per rest" lol as if that means anything in most video game adaptations.

Another proof that you never played as a sorcerer/wizard on kingmaker. You believe that you don't need to manage your spell slots on kingmaker...

And again i ask you. Name one spell which rearrange the universe or enable cheat codes. Ice Prison, Mass is my favorite tier 9 spell and is not broken. Some times i use maximized sirroco over it.

I'm fairly sure no such rule exists in 3.5. I'm ready to bet 1.000.000 Ontopolies on this.

Animate dead "you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit." https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Animate_Dead

"
In addition, when a dread necromancer uses the animate dead spell to create undead, she can control 4 + her Charisma bonus HD worth of undead creatures per class level (rather than the 4 HD per level normally granted by the spell)." https://www.dndtools.net/classes/dread-necromancer/

This rule limits animated undeads you can control, but it has nothing to do with summoned creatures. You can summon literally ∞ HD worth of creatures.

 

[Cryomancer]

This rule limits animated undeads you can control, but it has nothing to do with summoned creatures. You can summon literally ∞ HD worth of creatures.

You are right. Was my mistake. Is because spell summoning lasts one round / level. Animate dead and create undead lasts forever.

 

[Daidre]

I an bringing him to the discussion exactly because spell casting on their most recent games are TRASH. You can't do anything interesting. Even with a 9th tier spell. And a perk that gives 3% damage reduction from shock on outer worlds is muh balanced.

Come on, Sawyer never really worked on Outer Worlds. If anything, I'd bet that turd would be better with his participation.

 

[NJClaw]

This rule limits animated undeads you can control, but it has nothing to do with summoned creatures. You can summon literally ∞ HD worth of creatures.

You are right. Was my mistake. Is because spell summoning lasts one round / level. Animate dead and create undead lasts forever.

Real summoning spells have no duration limits. While Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally can be used to great effect, the real power comes with Planar Ally/Planar Binding/Gate.

 

[Desiderius]

This rule limits animated undeads you can control, but it has nothing to do with summoned creatures. You can summon literally ∞ HD worth of creatures.

You are right. Was my mistake. Is because spell summoning lasts one round / level. Animate dead and create undead lasts forever.

Real summoning spells have no duration limits. While Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally can be used to great effect, the real power comes with Planar Ally/Planar Binding/Gate.

The way Summons are used in P:K they should have Illusions instead.

 

[Lacrymas]

And again i ask you. Name one spell which rearrange the universe or enable cheat codes.

Most of them? (Limited) Wish, Move Earth, Control Weather, Maze, Greater Teleport, Reverse Gravity, Planar Binding, Polymorph Any Object, Gate, Time Stop, Shapechange, etc. etc. And that's only arcane spells. Nobody is talking only about Kingmaker.

It seems to me that people who advocate for these ridiculous spells don't like having limitations. You know, like other classes and general rules in whatever game. "Sorcerers can only learn 4 spells by lvl 3!" Well, yeah, that's normal and you chose a Sorcerer. It's called having advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Anonona]

What is people opinion here on the Path of War classes of Pathfinder? I have been reading a little over them and seem like they could be fun to play as a more micromanaging intensive martial class. I'm pretty sure they aren't in the new game, unless I have missed something. Not sure if they can even be added through mods, but still I was interested in knowing your opinions of them.

 

[Luckmann]

its possible for him to learn some of them but impossible to learn all of them.
what are you even trying to prove? that they have options in character creation?

Yep; he is trying to say something like

"lets make pure arcane casters into half casters without the half casters class benefit because i who never played as a arcane caster believe that a wizards can learn every spell in existence for free and that other casters have the same versatility of a wizard. Everyone needs to autoattack every turn because is my idea of fun. Doesn't matter if all good unfair solo builds are martial on the game. You should be prohibited to have fun if you enjoy using powerful magic in a high fantasy game."

It's called Schrödinger's Spellbook. It's basically a fallacy that balancefags depend on to make their faux-arguments appear legitimate, when in reality they never are. They basically set up white-room theorycrafting to engineer scenarios that never happen, and then depend on Schrödinger's Spellbook to fill in the blanks as to how the scenario is resolved.

Every. Fucking. Time.

What is people opinion here on the Path of War classes of Pathfinder? I have been reading a little over them and seem like they could be fun to play as a more micromanaging intensive martial class. I'm pretty sure they aren't in the new game, unless I have missed something. Not sure if they can even be added through mods, but still I was interested in knowing your opinions of them.

Path of War is basically the 3.5 Tome of Battle, except for Pathfinder (and they're practically co patible, too). The idea and systems are solid, and I think it was a bit shit that Paizo never capitalized on the Tome of Battle ideas.

I think they ramp up a bit too fast, turning what should be thematically grounded martials into fairly absurd or fantastical things much too early, and I would prefer a curve where characters would not become truly herculean or mythic until level 15, at best.

But you won't see it in WotR. Path of War is strictly 3pp, Dreamscarred Press, and I don't see Owlcat adding 3pp content unless it's a big planned thing from the beginning. I also don't see a way to mod it in. It is certainly possible, but it would involve creating a boatload of assets to portray appropriately, from backflips to shadowjumps and whatnot.

 

[Cryomancer]

Most of them? (Limited) Wish, Move Earth, Control Weather, Maze, Greater Teleport, Reverse Gravity, Planar Binding, Polymorph Any Object, Gate, Time Stop, Shapechange, etc. etc. And that's only arcane spells. Nobody is talking only about Kingmaker.

Most of this spells doesn't exist on kingmaker. So, you are talking about ruining a class which you never played because some spells exists on source material but not in the game... And guess what. Call of the Wild adds some of this spells and makes the game way better(at least IMO)

What is people opinion here on the Path of War classes of Pathfinder? I have been reading a little over them and seem like they could be fun to play as a more micromanaging intensive martial class. I'm pretty sure they aren't in the new game, unless I have missed something. Not sure if they can even be added through mods, but still I was interested in knowing your opinions of them.

I an hipped for the Winter Witch and really wanna that they put a firearms classes and firearms for alchemists; imagine riding a elephant/wryven with a blackpowder rifle or bombs. That would be so cool.

 

[Luckmann]

27. Does the demon path refer only to demons? Or is it demons and devils?

A demon can’t turn into a devil because they hate eachother. But, there may be a secret devil path…

Trigger the Blood War on Golarion in Pathfinder: Wrath of the Copyright Lawyers. Maybe that's why it's secret?

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Blood_War#In_Pathfinder

In Pathfinder
Perhaps because the Blood War isn't OGL-covered, Pathfinder makes no use of it. Demons and devils fight, yeah, but that's because they're evil, destructive bastards who sometimes get in each other's way. There's no big philosophical fight between the two. Indeed, as demons in Pathfinder are created from mortal sins, and devils live to corrupt mortals by committing sins, one can say that devils literally create demons.

This does not explain why, since the demons have vastly larger numbers than devils, same as in D&D if not more-so (The Great Beyond cosmology doesn't go into the whole 'balance' thing), they didn't destroy much of Golarion and the Prime Material Plane already, given how none of the Celestial races focuses on directly opposing them, though local gods are known to. In fact, demons and devils so rarely come up against each other in Pathfinder Adventures/Modules, that it often feels like Paizo is trying their darnedest to not even hint at there being something similar to the Blood War in their universe, and get sued by WOTC.

Or maybe, just maybe, Golarion as a setting is utter shit. Shiiiiit.

... how dare people who enjoy high level gameplay having a single high level game. Every game needs to be low level slaying bandits ...

This but unironically.

Epicfags gets the rope.