Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[kinzadza]

Ho bros, how badly is this still broken? Can I play it and not risk death from internal bleeding?

No. The combat works OK, but everything around it (and there's a lot) is a mess.

This review covers some, but not all, of the issues pretty well. Here's another good one. And another.

It's important to note that the fundamental systems complained about in these reviews are not being changed with the patches. Even if all of the bugs were fixed, the underlying design (especially kingdom management, puzzles, exploration, and quests) are a tedious joyless chore. I don't have many complaints about character generation, leveling or combat, which is why I'm especially bitter about Kingmaker. This game had so much potential to be great. Imo Owlcat's ambitious design reached 10X beyond their abilities to implement it into a sensible and enjoyable game.

If I could completely cut out all kingdom management and quests I would play it like IWD2 and just murder hobo and level up, because the combat mechanics are very good. Unfortunately the encounter design, especially in the later chapters, is so frustrating that even if this were possible (it's not), it wouldn't be fun in the least.

Owlcat really wanted to do right with this game, they are not some corrupt cynical studio trying a cash grab on their fan base. Their heart was very much in the right place, but it's clear that they bit off way way way more than they could chew, and the player suffers for their incompetence and lack of experience, every step of the way.

a scrub like you couldnt finish iwd on easy.

 

[Prime Junta]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

 

[Gregz]

It's just my honest opinion, I'm one man. I bled internally a lot playing Kingmaker.

I happen to agree with every point in those reviews, so I included them in my response.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

There are some bugs still, but it's mostly minor stuff. You might find that you can't complete or trigger some minor side quest or that an infrequently-used feat or spell has something wrong with it. I haven't played the endgame in a while so there might still be some bigger issues there (also might not), but you won't even get there until after 100 hours of gameplay. I'd give it a shot if you're interested.

Edit: there's also some stuff that doesn't necessary fall under the "bug" label that really does need to be fixed anyways. Specifically, the length of the loading screens. If you were enraged by POE's stronghold loading screens on release you're not gonna like going to your capital in Kingmaker.

 

[kinzadza]

It's just my honest opinion, I'm one man. I bled internally a lot playing Kingmaker.

I happen to agree with every point in those reviews, so I included them in my response.

Have you even played iwd2

 

[Volrath]

Honestly Cunta I doubt you could handle this much incline, better stay on the safe side and stick to pillows.

 

[Anthedon]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

I'm about 20 hours in and could complete every quest so far. And I experienced no crashes, the only technical issue are long loading times.

 

[Thonius]

Turn Off autosave. Game load location and save during same splash screen.

 

[Elex]

90% of the game issues come from the loading time.

the entire kingdom manager, the throne room, the edgy house time at the end, all become fine with a 2-3 second loading time.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

The encounter design at the House at the Edge of Time would still be trash regardless of loading times.

 

[ArchAngel]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

There is still a lot of little bugs. Nothing game breaking but don't expect to get through even 10h without running into at least one of them (feels worse if you are familiar with pathfinder rules). Also the game has this unpolished feel. Not all the time, but enough times that you notice it.

 

[Haplo]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

I haven't experienced anything major.

Overall good fun!

Some things (feats, spells) don't work exactly like they should, but Owlcats seem to be making good progress fixing those as well. Watch out for outdated builds!

 

[Sacred82]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

like all cleric domains are broken as in not working

stopped playing after that but you can certainly find 1000+ more bug threads

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

I finished the game and chapter 6 killed my will to live to replay this game in the near future. Exploring same location over9000 times, shitty loot and uninspired bland enemies (it seems devs run out ideas about encounters and decided to drop generic critters with overbloated stats as much as possible for tiny room) made me almost puke and drop the game. Seven chapter was a bit better, but a fucking chore too, because you visiting same locations but in ugly First World version and castrated to the point that sometimes it's just one corridor. Thinking about that even if I decide to play this game again, I will suffer through companions quests once more make my soul shivering in terror. In my opinion, Jubilost and Jaethel the only ones who had somewhat interesting quests, others had horrible illogical chores which can be handled by guards or servants, but ofc game requires your fucking presence for success of quest. And you should do all this while feeling taste of toxic acid in your mouth after idiotic alignment mess ( I was always against alignment system, but in this game devs managed to broke that already broken, lol) and lore inconsistency like Tristian, Linzi, paladins of Shelyn, Hellknights and etc. You also being tortured by loading screens during whole fucking game, in these moments I wish that hell existed, because level designer can be punished by endless entering and exiting small room countless times with loading screen before his eyes. And ofc bugs, which you can still catch not only in the end, but in middle too.
I fucking dead inside right now, game had issues before final chapters, but final chapters is just a mood killer. I even questioned myself why I played this game, this is how it was bad.

 

[kinzadza]

I finished the game and chapter 6 killed my will to live to replay this game in the near future. Exploring same location over9000 times, shitty loot and uninspired bland enemies (it seems devs run out ideas about encounters and decided to drop generic critters with overbloated stats as much as possible for tiny room) made me almost puke and drop the game. Seven chapter was a bit better, but a fucking chore too, because you visiting same locations but in ugly First World version and castrated to the point that sometimes it's just one corridor. Thinking about that even if I decide to play this game again, I will suffer through companions quests once more make my soul shivering in terror. In my opinion, Jubilost and Jaethel the only ones who had somewhat interesting quests, others had horrible illogical chores which can be handled by guards or servants, but ofc game requires your fucking presence for success of quest. And you should do all this while feeling taste of toxic acid in your mouth after idiotic alignment mess ( I was always against alignment system, but in this game devs managed to broke that already broken, lol) and lore inconsistency like Tristian, Linzi, paladins of Shelyn, Hellknights and etc. You also being tortured by loading screens during whole fucking game, in these moments I wish that hell existed, because level designer can be punished by endless entering and exiting small room countless times with loading screen before his eyes. And ofc bugs, which you can still catch not only in the end, but in middle too.
I fucking dead inside right now, game had issues before final chapters, but final chapters is just a mood killer. I even questioned myself why I played this game, this is how it was bad.

Wait till you get a job

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

When I imagined how looks Pitax from in-game decriptins, I expected some grand city with big buildings to explore, but in size it was slightly bigger than my capital, lol. Same with First World, I expected it would be place of wonders (at least in final chapters), but it was just some ugly jungles. Also btw, I wanted to say long ago, but I decided to say it after finishing game: it's disappointing that party can't use spells for solving some quests or just in dialog interaction, it's robs spell caster role play elements.

Wait till you get a job

I have one, that is why it it taken for me so long to finish this game (if we can't count loading screens ofc) and my job doesn't have loading screens and overbloated critters. Btw, what my job have to do with this game and my comment about computer game? You aren't really good at small talk are you?

 

[TT1]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

You can play, its fine. I am 204h ingame right now, and just got some serious/ visual bugs in the last chapter.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I finished the game and chapter 6 killed my will to live to replay this game in the near future. Exploring same location over9000 times, shitty loot and uninspired bland enemies (it seems devs run out ideas about encounters and decided to drop generic critters with overbloated stats as much as possible for tiny room) made me almost puke and drop the game. Seven chapter was a bit better, but a fucking chore too, because you visiting same locations but in ugly First World version and castrated to the point that sometimes it's just one corridor. Thinking about that even if I decide to play this game again, I will suffer through companions quests once more make my soul shivering in terror. In my opinion, Jubilost and Jaethel the only ones who had somewhat interesting quests, others had horrible illogical chores which can be handled by guards or servants, but ofc game requires your fucking presence for success of quest. And you should do all this while feeling taste of toxic acid in your mouth after idiotic alignment mess ( I was always against alignment system, but in this game devs managed to broke that already broken, lol) and lore inconsistency like Tristian, Linzi, paladins of Shelyn, Hellknights and etc. You also being tortured by loading screens during whole fucking game, in these moments I wish that hell existed, because level designer can be punished by endless entering and exiting small room countless times with loading screen before his eyes. And ofc bugs, which you can still catch not only in the end, but in middle too.
I fucking dead inside right now, game had issues before final chapters, but final chapters is just a mood killer. I even questioned myself why I played this game, this is how it was bad.

Wait till you get a job

get a job with high job security so you can't be fired and barely have to do any work

 

[kinzadza]

When I imagined how looks Pitax from in-game decriptins, I expected some grand city with big buildings to explore, but in size it was slightly bigger than my capital, lol. Same with First World, I expected it would be place of wonders (at least in final chapters), but it was just some ugly jungles. Also btw, I wanted to say long ago, but I decided to say it after finishing game: it's disappointing that party can't use spells for solving some quests or just in dialog interaction, it's robs spell caster role play elements.

Wait till you get a job

I have one, that is why it it taken for me so long to finish this game (if we can't count loading screens ofc) and my job doesn't have loading screens and overbloated critters. Btw, what my job have to do with this game and my comment about computer game? You aren't really good at small talk are you?

If you replace the word game with job you will get my small time joke.

 

[Israfael]

After talking to the storyteller and getting the portal cutscene, nothing happens - I can talk to the companions and vist the previous locations, but it does not get me into the ruined capital and fight with the lantern king. Is it a bug or i'm missing something?

 

[Nirvash]

I'm in the first world, i can't even guess what insane disasters will hit my god forsaken poor barony next, how someone still want to live there is beyond my understanding after the trolls and giant monsters fuckery.

I'm not sue about nok nok, he sure got crazy comedy potential but even as a "chaotic" good ruler i just can't see him as a accettable companion lore-wise. (also, after the monsters fuckery, ALL GOBLINS MUST DIE)

Ok questions:

Will i ever find again some vendor with some good stuff to buy? Or i just use the gold for bp?
Also, when/where i will find more bag of holding, will they stack?

 

[Lawntoilet]

What do you mean? The game has been meticulously playtested both for bugs and for gameplay balance. Rite?

It's ultimately based on 3.5e D&D, it never had a hope of being balanced, what matters is it's breakable in a fun way.

I'm in the first world, i can't even guess what insane disasters will hit my god forsaken poor barony next, how someone still want to live there is beyond my understanding after the trolls and giant monsters fuckery.

I'm not sue about nok nok, he sure got crazy comedy potential but even as a "chaotic" good ruler i just can't see him as a accettable companion lore-wise. (also, after the monsters fuckery, ALL GOBLINS MUST DIE)

Ok questions:

Will i ever find again some vendor with some good stuff to buy? Or i just use the gold for bp?
Also, when/where i will find more bag of holding, will they stack?

Spoiler

The goblins weren't responsible for the monsters though. You can justify Nok-Nok because he's trying to move the goblins away from how they were under the last king, which although they're still a nuisance, was definitely worse.

Spoiler

Bags of holding stack. Oleg, Bartholomew, and Hussuf all sell them, maybe a Pitax merchant too?
There is decent stuff to buy in Pitax but BP will soak up most of your gold throughout the game.

 

[Yosharian]

Okay since Gregz clearly has an agenda, I'll ask again. Is it still buggy enough to cause internal bleeding or is it OK to give it a shot?

Let me reiterate: I'm asking about bugs, not how you feel about the systems, the implementation, the writing, or generally if it's shit or how shit it is. Thank you.

like all cleric domains are broken as in not working

stopped playing after that but you can certainly find 1000+ more bug threads

Not all of the domains are broken. I'm using Community and Animal.

 

[Israfael]

i'm missing something?

It fixed itself after exiting and launching the game again, weird thing

 

[purpleblob]

I really love this game but still found the end game absolutely atrocious. There's really not much content in chapter 6, and the the last dungeon in chapter 6 is just total disaster. The optional chapter 7 is "slightly" better but not by much, and totally not worth the time unless you manage to unlock the secret/best ending.