Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

So I have decided (first time in my life) to go with a rogue. Thinking about supplementing it with grenadier level or two, so that i can love the smell of napalm in every battle.
Question: How many lvls of grenadiers should I take?
And is this build viable stat-wise?
Race: human starting class: rogue
Str: 7 (will switch to dex to damage feat as soon as i am able to)
Dex: 19 (should i have gone to all 20?)
Con: 14 ( I think)
Int: 16 (read its good for bombing)
Wis: 14 (don't know why, only marginal rewards in will saves)
Cha: 7 (wish I could decrease it further)

Any advice is well-appreciated.

1) 7 Str is a little low, but you'll be ok as long as your teammates don't all have the same strength scores. Just bear in mind that until you get level 3, you're going to be suffering -2 damage on all your hits.

2) no, it's very rarely worth getting that last point.

3) Con is nice, but don't let it stop you from upping other ability scores.

4) you're gonna multiclass to Alch? That's not a very good idea. Alch is much better when it's kept pure. Vivisectionist makes a good multiclass, but straight up Alch isn't as good in my opinion - you only get a number of bombs/day equal to Alch level + Int modifier.

5) that's too much Wisdom, probably. 10 at the most, or 7 if you need the points elsewhere.

Rogue is alright but with those stats you could go full Vivisectionist and have 20th level Alchemist casting. Tons of crazy buffs, and the same Sneak Attack dice.

 

[Haplo]

The recommendation to use Shield spell instead seems solid.. but is pushing me even further toward a full-str build with a two-hander.

Can you get something like a mithral breastplate here? That'd be 6 armor + 5 Dex bonus (max). 3 AC short from 24+8+6 = 38 Dex, 14 modifier.
So something like
Str: 19 + 5 => Final mutated Str 38, +21 damage two-handed.. Could maybe mix Barbarian for more... or use Legendary Proportions, that'd be... 44?
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
(didn't really count the points).

With Legendary Proportions, could also be quite a tripping machine, perhaps?

Does Legendary Proportions Natural Armor Size bonus stack with Alchemy Natural Armor from mutagen and Barkskin Natural Armor enhancement?

 

[J1M]

So I have decided (first time in my life) to go with a rogue. Thinking about supplementing it with grenadier level or two, so that i can love the smell of napalm in every battle.
Question: How many lvls of grenadiers should I take?
And is this build viable stat-wise?
Race: human starting class: rogue
Str: 7 (will switch to dex to damage feat as soon as i am able to)
Dex: 19 (should i have gone to all 20?)
Con: 14 ( I think)
Int: 16 (read its good for bombing)
Wis: 14 (don't know why, only marginal rewards in will saves)
Cha: 7 (wish I could decrease it further)

Any advice is well-appreciated.

You will probably want to spend some feats on extra bombs. The precise bombs feat/discovery will also help.

 

[thesheeep]

Reminds me of my Shadowrun (2nd edition? IIRC) character who was sneaking up on people with a chainsaw. Good times

I imagine it would have to be an electric chainsaw, since a gas-powered one would make too much noise just idling, and would take too long to get up to speed. Not that a chainsaw is a good melee weapon to begin with. In fact, chainsaws are pretty much designed to be the opposite of a melee weapon, with pesky safety features that actively work to stop you from properly cutting a bitch.

A lot of things were possible in Shadowrun 2nd edition

 

[Shadenuat]

Can you get something like a mithral breastplate here?

Yeah although there's I think at most one and it is +2. Heavy armor eventually outpaces it for same +13 AC but more stuff on it like adamantite /DR.
Heck, Bracers of Armor +8 are just as good as that mithral armor you get since you can wear a robe with them.

 

[Radech]

Playing an Elven thug/fighter atm focused on demoralising

Running Elven Curved Blade to save on feats(compared to dw) thug 4/fighter 1 so far, looking for 2 more fighter levels and then going duelist to see if it works with ecb.

Next level i should get cornugon smash, which should roll for intimidate on hit, meaning with the rogue levels, whenever i land a 'backstab' which is whenever someone's flanked, which is always, i aplly shaken(-2 or fear), sicken(-2) and bewildering(-2 to attack) or Disorienting(-2 AC), with the last two doubling up against the char - so whenever i hit anyone, i massively nerf their hit chance - now I just gotta figure out how to attack everyone at once

going
14
19+1
10
12
10
14

Probably not the most minmaxy, will probably need to pick up some persuasion feats, to get the fear to procc from thug(must beat saves by 15)

 

[santino27]

Are you referring to Weapon Finesse? That is only attack, not damage.

Yeah, it sucks that the Crusader takes up an archetype spot for clerics, considering that Crusader is terrible. They definitely could've used something to set them apart, like a unique use of channelling or something, or extra channelling and some Divine Feats (or whatever they're called in PF).

At level 3 (and every few levels after), rogues get finesse training, where they can pick a weapon type and will use dex for damage instead of strength. However (big however) it seems to have been broken in 1.05 and no longer applies if you are dual wielding (even to your primary weapon).

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Are you referring to Weapon Finesse? That is only attack, not damage.

Yeah, it sucks that the Crusader takes up an archetype spot for clerics, considering that Crusader is terrible. They definitely could've used something to set them apart, like a unique use of channelling or something, or extra channelling and some Divine Feats (or whatever they're called in PF).

At level 3 (and every few levels after), rogues get finesse training, where they can pick a weapon type and will use dex for damage instead of strength. However (big however) it seems to have been broken in 1.05 and no longer applies if you are dual wielding (even to your primary weapon).

Pretty sure that's equivalent to fencing/slashing grace and it's not supposed to work if your off-hand has something in it.

 

[Serus]

I just realized that the lack of slings in this game means that you need to use a feat if you want to make a ranged focused druid to get him longbow proficiency. Or alternatively get him 1 level in a class that gets it. Or make him an elf. But I want my slinger druid damn it! Sad.

 

[vazha]

1) 7 Str is a little low, but you'll be ok as long as your teammates don't all have the same strength scores. Just bear in mind that until you get level 3, you're going to be suffering -2 damage on all your hits.

2) no, it's very rarely worth getting that last point.

3) Con is nice, but don't let it stop you from upping other ability scores.

4) you're gonna multiclass to Alch? That's not a very good idea. Alch is much better when it's kept pure. Vivisectionist makes a good multiclass, but straight up Alch isn't as good in my opinion - you only get a number of bombs/day equal to Alch level + Int modifier.

5) that's too much Wisdom, probably. 10 at the most, or 7 if you need the points elsewhere.

Rogue is alright but with those stats you could go full Vivisectionist and have 20th level Alchemist casting. Tons of crazy buffs, and the same Sneak Attack dice.

Many thanks, I should have explained myself better:
1.I want to shower people with bombs and use every possibility to amplify the carnage i can cause through that. Somebody in this thread suggested rogue / bombardier mix was good for that. taking extra bombs feat is fine, and when I run out of bombs I want to be a dedicated sniper obliterating whoever is left standing. What class combo would be best for this purpose and how powerful would I end up being?
2. Does low strength penalty still apply if i use ranged weapons? if so, is there anything to remedy that? I dont want to get into melee.
3. Wouldnt 10 wisdom leave me vulnerable to pretty much every bumshankle throwing a will-based spell at me? how to deal with it?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[hell bovine]

If Valery can do it, so can you!

 

[Elhoim]

Dragon Disciple is so bad, though.

Not trying to shoot down your build, but it could be optimized, that's all. Don't let that stop you from enjoying it, though.

By the way, how are you casting your Sorc spells while in Heavy Armor?

I love melee, so the spells I use are mostly buffs (before hard fights). With 25% failure with Mithral Heavy Plate I rarely fail, and if I do, it's before combat and I cast again.

 

[Lawntoilet]

FYI for anyone who might not know yet, there is a Scimitar in Lake Silverstep Village that's made for a Magus.

Spoiler

Slicer +2, +4 if you have a touch spell charged. It's in the cave near the sarcophagus.

 

[santino27]

Are you referring to Weapon Finesse? That is only attack, not damage.

Yeah, it sucks that the Crusader takes up an archetype spot for clerics, considering that Crusader is terrible. They definitely could've used something to set them apart, like a unique use of channelling or something, or extra channelling and some Divine Feats (or whatever they're called in PF).

At level 3 (and every few levels after), rogues get finesse training, where they can pick a weapon type and will use dex for damage instead of strength. However (big however) it seems to have been broken in 1.05 and no longer applies if you are dual wielding (even to your primary weapon).

Pretty sure that's equivalent to fencing/slashing grace and it's not supposed to work if your off-hand has something in it.

Before 1.05, it gave the bonus. So either it was a bug then and was fixed or it was working then and is now bugged. If it really is supposed to function equivalent to slashing grace, then it's a pretty shitty ability, imo. (With most dmg coming from sneak attack, what rogue is going to wield only one one-handed weapon instead of two?)

 

[Yosharian]

The recommendation to use Shield spell instead seems solid.. but is pushing me even further toward a full-str build with a two-hander.

Can you get something like a mithral breastplate here? That'd be 6 armor + 5 Dex bonus (max). 3 AC short from 24+8+6 = 38 Dex, 14 modifier.
So something like
Str: 19 + 5 => Final mutated Str 38, +21 damage two-handed.. Could maybe mix Barbarian for more... or use Legendary Proportions, that'd be... 44?
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
(didn't really count the points).

With Legendary Proportions, could also be quite a tripping machine, perhaps?

Does Legendary Proportions Natural Armor Size bonus stack with Alchemy Natural Armor from mutagen and Barkskin Natural Armor enhancement?

I don't think you should assume that the armor you'll want to wear will be Mithral. For example, you might find an armor that has excellent abilities that you want to use, but isn't Mithral.

2H doesn't synergise well with a class that has lots of Sneak Attack dice.

There are a few feats missing from the game, such as Furious Focus, that make Power Attack 2H builds more attractive.

So, 2H is fine, but personally, I think TWF is better, especially for Rogue.

Natural Armor bonuses very rarely stack. I think Dragon Disciple's natural armor increase might stack with Natural Armor bonuses, but don't quote me. The ones you mentioned definitely don't stack.

 

[Yosharian]

1) 7 Str is a little low, but you'll be ok as long as your teammates don't all have the same strength scores. Just bear in mind that until you get level 3, you're going to be suffering -2 damage on all your hits.

2) no, it's very rarely worth getting that last point.

3) Con is nice, but don't let it stop you from upping other ability scores.

4) you're gonna multiclass to Alch? That's not a very good idea. Alch is much better when it's kept pure. Vivisectionist makes a good multiclass, but straight up Alch isn't as good in my opinion - you only get a number of bombs/day equal to Alch level + Int modifier.

5) that's too much Wisdom, probably. 10 at the most, or 7 if you need the points elsewhere.

Rogue is alright but with those stats you could go full Vivisectionist and have 20th level Alchemist casting. Tons of crazy buffs, and the same Sneak Attack dice.

Many thanks, I should have explained myself better:
1.I want to shower people with bombs and use every possibility to amplify the carnage i can cause through that. Somebody in this thread suggested rogue / bombardier mix was good for that. taking extra bombs feat is fine, and when I run out of bombs I want to be a dedicated sniper obliterating whoever is left standing. What class combo would be best for this purpose and how powerful would I end up being?
2. Does low strength penalty still apply if i use ranged weapons? if so, is there anything to remedy that? I dont want to get into melee.
3. Wouldnt 10 wisdom leave me vulnerable to pretty much every bumshankle throwing a will-based spell at me? how to deal with it?

1) You should abandon multi-classing altogether and go pure Grenadier.

2) You should grab at least 14 strength if you want to use Bows effectively.

3) Do you think that 14 Wisdom, which is effectively another +2 to your Will save, is suddenly going to turn your character into one that reliably makes Will saves? How to deal with it, well you have a party of 6 characters, and hopefully one of them will have protective spells, spells that can remove disabling effects, etc.

 

[Lawntoilet]

In the interest of not screwing yourself over too badly taking a weak Weapon Focus, up to late Chapter 2, I've found decent-to-great weapons in the following categories (+1 with elemental enchant, or better):
Glaive, Heavy Mace, Battleax, Greataxe, Falcata, Dueling Sword, Rapier (best Agile weapons so far), Scimitar, Greatsword, Shortsword, Bastard Sword, Longbow, Light Crossbow

Best so far IMO is Glaive or Greataxe for 2-handed, Longbow for Devourer of Metal, Scimitar for Magus, and Heavy Mace for S&B fighters.

Haven't found any good daggers yet, and only one OK Longsword (+1 Keen), which are both surprising. No good Shortbows either.

 

[Jarpie]

In the interest of not screwing yourself over too badly taking a weak Weapon Focus, up to late Chapter 2, I've found decent-to-great weapons in the following categories (+1 with elemental enchant, or better):
Glaive, Heavy Mace, Battleax, Greataxe, Falcata, Dueling Sword, Rapier (best Agile weapons so far), Scimitar, Greatsword, Shortsword, Bastard Sword, Longbow, Light Crossbow

Best so far IMO is Glaive or Greataxe for 2-handed, Longbow for Devourer of Metal, Scimitar for Magus, and Heavy Mace for S&B fighters.

Haven't found any good daggers yet, and only one OK Longsword (+1 Keen), which are both surprising. No good Shortbows either.

There's cold iron dagger +1 in

Spoiler

Old Sycamore

 

[111111111]

Something which is pretty cheesy and kind of hilarious is doing a full party of cleric crusaders.
You will win every single fight you are at full strength but you are forced to take rests to reset your spells.

Only thing is you spend 6 minutes every single map prebuffing.

 

[Roqua]

Getting dex for damage is super easy. It is baked into the rogue classes, is an easy feat to get at lower levels too, and is also on a lot of weapons (agile prefix). The regular feat descriptor I think used longsword as an example of a light weapon? Maybe it allows all one-handed?

Are you referring to Weapon Finesse? That is only attack, not damage.

Would like to play crusader, just shame that regular cleric is better, or doing cleric/fighter multiclass.

Yeah, it sucks that the Crusader takes up an archetype spot for clerics, considering that Crusader is terrible. They definitely could've used something to set them apart, like a unique use of channelling or something, or extra channelling and some Divine Feats (or whatever they're called in PF).

No you fucking moron, not weapon finesse. And for the millionth time stop stalking me, stop replying to my posts with your retarded little girl drivel and lack of any system knowledge and poser posts.

Jarpie - I don't see how One extra divine school with two abilities can be considered great compared to the bunch of extra feats, including weapon specialization feats, that the crusader gets. The always empowered healing of the healing school is nice, and the repose death ward aura is nice, and the one that gives extra saves is nice for an inquisitor, but the rest aren't that great - especially when compared to the extra feats (and type of feats) the crusader gets. It isn't as clear as one sucks and the others are good.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Haven't found any good daggers yet

There are two daggers you could get in Chapter 2:

Spoiler

If you kill the emissary/noble from Pitax during a random encounter on the road where he and his men are fighting trolls, he drops a dagger and a rapier. The dagger is called Lightning Duelist, it's a +1 dagger with +4 bonus insight to Initiative rolls, a +1 dodge bonus to your AC and deals lightning damage on hit.


The other dagger is found on Candlemere, I think it requires a perception check along the main path full of wisps. It's called Chaos Shard, it's a +2 dagger that has a chance to confuse enemies on hit.

 

[Solfear]

Hello guys,

Would you know if Overhand Chop (Two handed figher, lvl 3 feat) is working properly? Or it is a known bug?
Thanks!

 

[Luckmann]

No you fucking moron, not weapon finesse.

My apologies, autist, I hadn't noted the difference between Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training, because I haven't leveled a Rogue in PF:K yet, and Finesse Training isn't a thing for the Rogue in either 3.5 or PF. It was apparently introduced with the Unchained Rogue, with which I have no experience.

Good job almost containing your spaghetti there, Tyrone. You're doing great. Keep up the good work. You can do it.

 

[Roqua]

1st level sword saints get an ability to add their intelligence bonus as AC so is a decent splash for high-int builds?

It should work the same as the Duelist ability, which is to say that the amount of Int modifier you can transfer to your AC is limited by your class level. So dipping 1 level of Kensai to pick up that ability only gets you a maximum of 1 AC.

However, they may not have implemented it correctly.

I only tested at level one but he got the full int bonus (3). I figured it would be capped at level too. If there was some way of converting hit/damage to int it would be very interesting, but unless they feats are hidden in a special feat unlock I didn't see anything that popped out early enough on the class screen to make me want to jump or test other than a possible int wiz or int sorc splash.