Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Luckmann]

Can anyone tell me how sneak attacks work in this game? Is flanking the only requirement? What if you're under the effect of greater invisibility? Do all attacks get the bonus damage or just the first one? What if you're a spellcaster? Does it apply to melee and ranged touch spells? If so, how do spells like Scorching Ray work? Do you get a sneak attack bonus on each ray or just the first one that hits?

Great Invis. allows you to sneak attack as long as it lasts, provided enemies don't have something like true sight.
All attacks get the sneak attack bonus including shield bash, nice when dual wielding.
Spell casting is kinda weird, I'm not sure it's supposed to apply but a 1 vivisectionist/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster using Scorching Ray does sneak attack on with each ray AND the bow attack. Dunno if AoE spells apply sneak attacks.

The game applies sneak attack for ranged touch spells, which is why it works for scorching ray. AOE spells will not get sneak attack.

Does the Arcane Trickster stance apply Sneak Attack to your AoEs?

My AT isn't level 10 yet, but it looks like they did implement surprise spell, so assuming it's working... I'd say yes. That should only apply to flat-footed though, whereas sneak attack on ranged touch spells applies to flanked as well.

Still though, sneaking up on a mob and dropping a Fireball for 10d6 Fire + 7d6 Sneak Attack to each seems really awesome.

Make it 10d6 SA. Eldritch archer gets Sens Vitals which adds +5d6 SA damage. Though it comes late in the game.

No Magus gets Sense Vitals. It is not on the Magus spell list. Bards, Rangers and Wizard/Sorcerers get it, but not Magus.

Spoiler

Harrim sucks balls as a pure cleric and because of his high WIS it's better to multi-class him to Druid, Ranger or Inquisitor.

Trigger warning.

Edit: Harrim would be a shitty Ranger with his 8 Dex.

Great character portrait, is that one already present in Pathfinder or is it a custom one?

It is custom and it is shit. Doesn't even fit the art style of the others, for fucks sake.

if only tristan was not bugged.

As much as I hate Tristian being bugged, him not being bugged wouldn't change much. With the Healing Domain as his Secondary Domain, he'd just be even better at healing.

Which is nice and all, but still.

And even if they'll fix the Ecclesitheurge bug, all it will mean is that he'll be able to put his Primary Domain spells in non-Domain slots. But his Primary Domain is Good, and Good is (for whatever reason) trash, since so many of the spells already appear on the cleric's non-domain list, even on the same level(s).

 

[Sheepherder]

No Magus gets Sense Vitals. It is not on the Magus spell list. Bards, Rangers and Wizard/Sorcerers get it, but not Magus.

No, they do get it late in game. There's a feat, I forget what's it called, which at a certain level let's you choose a bunch of spells from Wizard spell list. You can get non level 6 spells by clicking "Show Spells from earlier level" or something like that during the level up.

 

[toro]

Harrim sucks balls as a pure cleric and because of his high WIS it's better to multi-class him to Druid, Ranger or Inquisitor.

Trigger warning.

Edit: Harrim would be a shitty Ranger with his 8 Dex.

Great character portrait, is that one already present in Pathfinder or is it a custom one?

Could you share that portrait, lad?

Try: https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1734340257885097701/

Direct download link: https://ufile.io/ki07j

 

[tindrli]

I found a really good build:

Human
Fighter

Pump STR

dwarf would do better

 

[vazha]

Damn, some bits in this game are so well-written and some are damn right uninspiring. In lizzardfolk village right now and loving everything. The capital though... utter borefest.

 

[Sheepherder]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.

Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?
Or maybe general tips for inquisitors? I'm not sure what role she should have in the party.

 

[Jarpie]

She gets some nice bonuses from the teamwork traits, like outflank gives +2ab if you are flanking an enemy (although the description says it's +4ab), there's one for AC too, if she's flanked with a team mate.

 

[santino27]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.

Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?
Or maybe general tips for inquisitors? I'm not sure what role she should have in the party.

I'm taking her 3 inq/17 invulnerable rager. She has so many immunities as an undead that it seems viable. Healing isn't great at that point, unless you have a cleric devote significant spell slots to her, but eh...

 

[vazha]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.

Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?
Or maybe general tips for inquisitors? I'm not sure what role she should have in the party.

I'm taking her 3 inq/17 invulnerable rager. She has so many immunities as an undead that it seems viable. Healing isn't great at that point, unless you have a cleric devote significant spell slots to her, but eh...

good thinking, this

 

[Yosharian]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

 

[J1M]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

 

[Serus]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

By the pnp rules sneak attack is supposed to only apply once, to the first ray, that's why. AFAIK. Rogue attacks with weapons is an unrelated matter.

 

[J1M]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

By the pnp rules sneak attack is supposed to only apply once, to the first ray, that's why. Afaik. Rogue attacks with weapons is an unrelated matter.

Perhaps you could link to somewhere on the pathfinder wiki that supports your position...

 

[Yosharian]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

Ok, I actually didn't realise you could straight up Sneak Attack without Surprise Spell providing that the spell gives an attack roll and deals damage. So, I learned something there. My bad.

HOWEVER:

Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

(from Paizo FAQ here: https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm )

So no, you don't get to add your Sneak Attack damage to every attack in a spell that contains multiple attacks, like Scorching Ray.

I mean for god's sake guys, this is blatantly overpowered.

 

[Incendax]

Perhaps you could link to somewhere on the pathfinder wiki that supports your position...

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/pr...ulebook/arcane-trickster/#TOC-Surprise-Spells

The FAQ section under Surprise Spells.

 

[Serus]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

By the pnp rules sneak attack is supposed to only apply once, to the first ray, that's why. Afaik. Rogue attacks with weapons is an unrelated matter.

Perhaps you could link to somewhere on the pathfinder wiki that supports your position...

Yosharian beat me to it and already quoted Paizo's answer in FAQ on that matter but just in case you missed it:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm

 

[J1M]

btw this is what you can expect to get from a 1 viv/9 eldritch archer/10 arcane trickster. And that's without sense vitals or hurricane bow. They come in at lvl 20 so it doesn't matter tbh.

That's all well and good, but:

The Surprise Spells class feature allows the Arcane Trickster to add his sneak attack dice to spells that deal damage that target flat-footed foes. This damage is only applied once per spell. In the case of fireball this means it affects all targets in the area, with each getting a save to halve the damage (including the sneak attack damage). In the case of magic missile, the extra damage is only added once to one missile, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.

It's a bug, so expect it to get fixed, and if it's not fixed, it's basically a game-breaking exploit.

If you're happy to abuse that, then have at it, but just know that you're basically breaking the game, because that kind of Sneak Attack mechanic will absolutely destroy any sense of difficulty the game has.

Those ray spells give several ranged touch attacks per cast, so I'm not sure why you are saying that applying sneak attack damage to each attack is a bug. That's not how multiple rogue attacks work.

Surprise Spells is something else that applies to spells that aren't attacks.

Ok, I actually didn't realise you could straight up Sneak Attack without Surprise Spell providing that the spell gives an attack roll and deals damage. So, I learned something there. My bad.

HOWEVER:

Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?
No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

(from Paizo FAQ here: https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qqm )

So no, you don't get to add your Sneak Attack damage to every attack in a spell that contains multiple attacks, like Scorching Ray.

I mean for god's sake guys, this is blatantly overpowered.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not sure why it would be considered so overpowered though, as a rogue will regularly land more than one attack per round.

 

[Incendax]

Okay, I honestly don't know what to do with Jaethal. Black Archer Man replaced her for good.
Any ideas for Jaethal development? Her undead gimmick has any use?

There is a lot you can do with her, depending on how much you want to violate her story. She's got a great statline.

Lore Reasonable:
1) Fighter 2 / Inquisitor 18.
2) Herald Caller 19.
3) Sorcerer (Undead) 19.
4) Eldritch Scion (Undead) 19.
5) Blight Druid 19.

Screw The Lore:
1) Empyreal Sorcerer 19.
2) Knife Master 19.
3) Vivisectionist 19.
4) Mad Dog 16 / Inquisitor 4.

But if you are willing to edit classes, turn her into a Mad Dog 2 / Sacred Huntmaster 18. :D

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Well my little strategy at level 5 isn't much but here goes.

My Aasimar Archaeologist has 3 Bard/2 Rogue. Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Intimidating Prowess (rolls 13 + 3 CHR + 3 STR for Demoralize checks, peoples gonna be scurred), Can cast Hypnotism, Hideous Laughter and uses the Barkskin once per day armor (Woodland Aegis I think it's called).

Valerie, tank all the way. Shield Focus, forget what else, nothing too exciting. AC is as high as I can possibly make it right now.

Amiri, using a +1 Glaive for 6 ft. reach, Outflank + Precise Strike both with Jaethal as teamwork feats. Took a level of Two Handed Fighter to get the BAB for Outflank at level 5.

Jaethal, also took a level of Two Handed Fighter, Outflank + Precise Strike. Passed on Bane at level 5 Inquisitor for now to get that sweet Outflank. Also using a +1 Longspear for reach, so both of them can stand behind Valerie and still flank the enemies. She's good at Demoralizing, too, and giving Guidance (+1 skill checks) to whoever needs it as an orison.

Linzi doing her Bard thing. Light healer for the group with Cure Light/Moderate Wounds, can also use Magic Devices and actually beat the Stag Lord with a Call Lightning scroll. Has Inspire Courage and Inspire Competence for skill checks. Great with a bow, high attack bonus and also has Precise Shot, etc..

Octavia took another level of Rogue, 3 Wiz/2 Rog for reasons of unlocking a second Sneak Attack bonus to became an Arcane Trickster. Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Slow Reactions Rogue feat which makes any sneak attacked target not be able to make Attacks of Opportunity for a round. She uses spells like Cat's Grace (increase her own ranged touch + Linzi's bow skills or my Archaeologist's AC, etc.) and Web when necessary. Also Enlarge/Reduce Person, very helpful for Amiri and Valerie respectively, and her Snowball has won us a fight or two.

That's at level 5 and I don't have the best builds but I'm trying here man, I'm trying. Trying not to screw up the level ups too badly, really.

 

[Andnjord]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm not sure why it would be considered so overpowered though, as a rogue will regularly land more than one attack per round.

Does a rogue regularly land 6 attack per round with each of these attack inflicting 12 or more d6 of Unholy/Fire damage?

 

[Incendax]

Octavia took another level of Rogue, 3 Wiz/2 Rog for reasons of unlocking a second Sneak Attack bonus to became an Arcane Trickster. Accomplished Sneak Attacker.

Accomplished Sneak Attacker qualifies you for Arcane Trickster without a 2nd level of Rogue.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Accomplished Sneak Attacker qualifies you for Arcane Trickster without a 2nd level of Rogue.

3rd level you mean? I had to have 2 levels in Sneak Attack, which is Rogue 3rd level. But I got Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 2 Rogue with her. So I guess level 6 will be Arcane Trickster, then, and a second level of Sneak Attack is not necessary?

 

[Andnjord]

Took a level of Two Handed Fighter to get the BAB for Outflank at level 5.

Might as well make that three to get the better strength bonus to damage.

Accomplished Sneak Attacker qualifies you for Arcane Trickster without a 2nd level of Rogue.

3rd level you mean? I had to have 2 levels in Sneak Attack, which is Rogue 3rd level. But I got Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 2 Rogue with her. So I guess level 6 will be Arcane Trickster, then, and a second level of Sneak Attack is not necessary?

You only need one level of rogue and Accomplished Sneak attacker to qualify for Arcane Trickster. I know it, I just found out about it too....at lvl11

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Took a level of Two Handed Fighter to get the BAB for Outflank at level 5.

Might as well make that three to get the better strength bonus to damage.

Yep, was thinking of that. Her and Jaethal each got a Two Handed Fighter level because I want them to use two-handed weapons and preferably ones with reach as they are currently. So they're just jabbing away and flanking enemies, my Archaeologist is sneak attacking and flanking while Valerie absorbs damage and Linzi is singing or slinging bolts while Octavia does her sneak attack thing. Level 3 and even Level 5 I think both have good two-handed weapon perks but I think next level I'm going Inquisitor for Jaethal for that sweet Level 5 Bane. Not sure about Amiri yet, might continue her in the Fighter path.