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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
I gave up completely and made him a single class thug. It's actually awesome. He's got 6 skills including use magic device so wands and scrolls would work for personal buffs if he's alone for some reason. When he's not Jubilost, Linzi and Harrim can buff him. OMG the feats! The simplicity! It's such a relief. This is my first actual rogue but here's what I've done:

Human
Str: 13 (14 if get 20 point. Who cares what happens after 20 anyway? Game's over)
Dex: 20 (24)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha:14

1. Power attack, toughness, bonus feat finesse
2. Martial weapons prof
3. Two weapon fighting
4. Kukri focus
5. Double slice
6. Dazzling display
7. Cornugon smash
8. Improved two weapon fighting
9. Shatter defenses
10. Double debilitation

Skills:
Mobility
Trickery
Stealth
Perception
Persuasion
Use magic device
All get the max possible with my stats.

Honestly I just picked feats that seemed good with no plan and it's better than anything I have made lately. Certainly any multiclass build I've made. This will do. This will more than do! I don't think I need to plan the rest really. Improved critical, critical focus and staggering critical seem like obvious choices, as does greater two-weapon fighting. Other than that I'll just take whatever advanced rogue talents seem cool.
In fact rather than power attack and cornugon smash you could just usually use lizzie applying shaken automatically with dirge of doom, this is just too good to not use .You should keep weapon focus -> dazzling display -> shatter defenses on any melee char and pick vital strike instead of cornugon smash for exemple . You dont even need to raise cha and persuasion.

Yeah that isn’t really worth it anymore since you have to turn off Inspire Courage to turn on Dirge. Used to be able to use Linger to stack them. Frightful Aspect also has the auto-Shaken but that’s 8th level spell. In Wrath made save on Fear also gives Shaken for a turn.

Or you can just use legit means like Dreadful, Cornugan, Dazzling, and Demoralize.
There's a big difference still, no saves at all and instant on everyone , you can min max melee character with 20 str and 5 charisma from the beggining and get better feats . Bard is a character i'd use in any party for that alone, then the buffs. Have to install the autobuffer mod , else its too much work.
It's one of the few must have you get very early, like mirror image for melee characters and the haste spell .
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,448
Location
Grand Chien
I used to rush Shatter Defences but the truth is that in most situations it's easier to just use Inspire Courage than Dirge of Doom. Dirge requires all targets to be in range so it's usable later in the turn, while Inspire Courage can be set off right at the start.

It's also feat intensive to get Shatter so early. I get it around level 15 when Frightful Aspect is coming online and that feels fine to me.

That said I am finding my first playthrough without any animal companions extremely challenging so I guess if you do rush it, there are still significant advantages. Insane stats + scaling mod makes enemies so much tougher it's unbelievable.

As for concentration checks, they are more of a thing in PnP because enemies can use trigger attacks like 'attack anyone who I think is casting a spell' so just casting defensively (which as I said eventually becomes trivial to succeed at) alone just doesn't cut it, you actually need to be able to succeed at concentration checks when you get hit while casting.

Because Kingmaker doesn't let you prep trigger attacks, that never happens, so concentration check-related feats and abilities just aren't that important.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,849
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
I've been shooting for Shatter at 15 too. Concentration comes up a lot more in RT but Sword Saint should be able to fade most of those attax by midgame at the latest in any event.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,448
Location
Grand Chien
Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.
I have improved critical in my build at level 13. Until then I plan to use my magus ability with enduring blade to keep my dueling sword keen. I'm hesitant to post said build here because I've gotten to a point where I'm actually playing the game and don't want to fall back into the vicious cycle of endless respecs. It seems fine.

Nothing too imaginative just lots of sword damage + hit chance and pretty good AC. Some casting. I can't get icy prison from the look of it it's not on the magus spell list on the wiki so it's probably not something I can learn. Oh well. Dubuffs aren't make or break for Lematte now that he's a sword saint. He starts with 19 base dex and increases to 24. He starts with 18 int which doesn't increase. Not bothering with spells with saves. Buffs and touch spells. Metamagic empower + maximize. That kind of thing. Big dueling sword damage and personal buffs are the focus. I like this class a lot. Getting INT bonus to AC (capped at level) is like having a lesser version of a monk dip. I think it's a good option for a chaotic neutral guy like him. Between that, his dex and personal buffs he should be a fine front liner. Plus he functions from level 1 which is a joy compared to other dex builds I've done.

Oh and he adds he ends up doing extra attacks of opportunity equal to his int bonus and the description says it stacks with combat reflexes. That sounds hilariously good so he's getting outflank and combat reflexes. Wanted to give him greater trip as well but it's four feats to do that as a dex guy so i decided just to focus on sword damage stuff instead. The casting kind of blows on this subclass but it gets some amazing things to compensate for that. I love it.
 

Stoned Ape

Savant
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
885
Location
The belly of the whale
I was thinking about trying out a Sword Saint wand wielder Trickster in WotR. I think it should be quite a fun character to play, would probably pick up the level 2 UMD, perception, athletics, and knowledge world tricks and choose the level 3s for mobility and knowledge nature (maybe swap over UMD and knowledge nature when I find out what the level 3 trick is for UMD).

Would probably aim for the vital strike line along with the improved improved improved critical stuff from trickster and the crit multiplier for lvl 20 SS. I think stacking AOOs from sword saint and combat reflexes for lots of moving around while getting free counter attacks, or trying out loads of spellstrikes with juiced up wands would be pretty entertaining.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
I was thinking about trying out a Sword Saint wand wielder Trickster in WotR. I think it should be quite a fun character to play, would probably pick up the level 2 UMD, perception, athletics, and knowledge world tricks and choose the level 3s for mobility and knowledge nature (maybe swap over UMD and knowledge nature when I find out what the level 3 trick is for UMD).

Would probably aim for the vital strike line along with the improved improved improved critical stuff from trickster and the crit multiplier for lvl 20 SS. I think stacking AOOs from sword saint and combat reflexes for lots of moving around while getting free counter attacks, or trying out loads of spellstrikes with juiced up wands would be pretty entertaining.
That sounds awesome. I've been planning to go trickster as well. Every youtuber I see is going lich but trickster is way more me. I'm gonna be a halfling. I've heard wrath is more serious in tone than Kingmaker. I'll fix that.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,448
Location
Grand Chien
Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.
I have improved critical in my build at level 13. Until then I plan to use my magus ability with enduring blade to keep my dueling sword keen. I'm hesitant to post said build here because I've gotten to a point where I'm actually playing the game and don't want to fall back into the vicious cycle of endless respecs. It seems fine.

Nothing too imaginative just lots of sword damage + hit chance and pretty good AC. Some casting. I can't get icy prison from the look of it it's not on the magus spell list on the wiki so it's probably not something I can learn. Oh well. Dubuffs aren't make or break for Lematte now that he's a sword saint. He starts with 19 base dex and increases to 24. He starts with 18 int which doesn't increase. Not bothering with spells with saves. Buffs and touch spells. Metamagic empower + maximize. That kind of thing. Big dueling sword damage and personal buffs are the focus. I like this class a lot. Getting INT bonus to AC (capped at level) is like having a lesser version of a monk dip. I think it's a good option for a chaotic neutral guy like him. Between that, his dex and personal buffs he should be a fine front liner. Plus he functions from level 1 which is a joy compared to other dex builds I've done.

Oh and he adds he ends up doing extra attacks of opportunity equal to his int bonus and the description says it stacks with combat reflexes. That sounds hilariously good so he's getting outflank and combat reflexes. Wanted to give him greater trip as well but it's four feats to do that as a dex guy so i decided just to focus on sword damage stuff instead. The casting kind of blows on this subclass but it gets some amazing things to compensate for that. I love it.
Ahh yes I forgot you can add Keen using Arcane Pool.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,849
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Bloodeyes I previously said you don't need Improved Critical if you're using Bloodhound, but I was misled by the item database which lists the Keen quality on the weapon. It actually doesn't have Keen. So you need to get Improved Critical, or enchant Bloodhound with Keen using CMI mod.
I have improved critical in my build at level 13. Until then I plan to use my magus ability with enduring blade to keep my dueling sword keen. I'm hesitant to post said build here because I've gotten to a point where I'm actually playing the game and don't want to fall back into the vicious cycle of endless respecs. It seems fine.

Nothing too imaginative just lots of sword damage + hit chance and pretty good AC. Some casting. I can't get icy prison from the look of it it's not on the magus spell list on the wiki so it's probably not something I can learn. Oh well. Dubuffs aren't make or break for Lematte now that he's a sword saint. He starts with 19 base dex and increases to 24. He starts with 18 int which doesn't increase. Not bothering with spells with saves. Buffs and touch spells. Metamagic empower + maximize. That kind of thing. Big dueling sword damage and personal buffs are the focus. I like this class a lot. Getting INT bonus to AC (capped at level) is like having a lesser version of a monk dip. I think it's a good option for a chaotic neutral guy like him. Between that, his dex and personal buffs he should be a fine front liner. Plus he functions from level 1 which is a joy compared to other dex builds I've done.

Oh and he adds he ends up doing extra attacks of opportunity equal to his int bonus and the description says it stacks with combat reflexes. That sounds hilariously good so he's getting outflank and combat reflexes. Wanted to give him greater trip as well but it's four feats to do that as a dex guy so i decided just to focus on sword damage stuff instead. The casting kind of blows on this subclass but it gets some amazing things to compensate for that. I love it.
Ahh yes I forgot you can add Keen using Arcane Pool.

Same thing with Pal Divine Weapon Bond
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,563
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
A basic question. I did google this first. Do I need combat casting on my sword saint? I've never bothered with this before because I always just take a 5 foot step then cast. There are a lot of things I could pack in this build and I'm not sure I have room for it. Some threads I've seen say you eventually start passing concentration automatically, some say you need the feat for a melee caster. I don't want to really. There's a few different things I could take - metamagic empower, metamagic maximize, spell focus, elemental focus. Shit even getting greater weapon focus would add damage to my blade. Combat casting won't so unless I'll be eating shit every time I try to use spell combat I'd like to leave it out.

Yes, I'm a sword saint now. Yes I know it's not the strongest class in the game. I love it though.


You don't need Combat Casting because:
1. A Sword Saint should not get hit. I mean its skillset sets it up to be the best tank in the game.
2. Your odds of passing Concentration checks generally increase with levels. Even moreso that you don't get access to highest level spells/get new spell levels slower then a pure caster.

Also, "not the strongest"?
I mean, there are many strong classes in Pathfinder. Kinda a nice balance in unbalance feel to it. And especially pure casters do some things better. Kineticists get some outright broken abilities eventually.
Still, I'd be hard pressed to find a class that is clearly superior to a Sword Saint...
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,563
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,448
Location
Grand Chien
Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.
Bro I'm level 7 right now and I'm already clearing out the barrow ready to abuse the shit out of Dimension Door and Invisibility, please

Man up and beat Farnirras fair and square :P
Oh he's going to get beat like Jay Z in an elevator, but I need Icy Prison for that

In the meantime, he doesn't need that chest of valuable magical items, I'll have those
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,563
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Imagine not sneaking into Farnirras' chamber and stealing all his loot as soon as you unlock Lonely Barrow

Fifteen levels my ass

Agreed. Its more like 12-13 levels.
Bro I'm level 7 right now and I'm already clearing out the barrow ready to abuse the shit out of Dimension Door and Invisibility, please

Man up and beat Farnirras fair and square :P
Oh he's going to get beat like Jay Z in an elevator, but I need Icy Prison for that

In the meantime, he doesn't need that chest of valuable magical items, I'll have those

Vinetrap is also nice (and Divine, so can spam that CC).
Not to mention Chains of Light.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,448
Location
Grand Chien
Yeah, it's much easier to boost the DC on Icy Prison though, and I'm playing with Insane monster stats so his Reflex save probably won't low enough for Vinetrap/CoL to work, we'll see
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
You don't need Combat Casting because:
1. A Sword Saint should not get hit. I mean its skillset sets it up to be the best tank in the game.

Monk or monk dip is better because it's not capped by class level. Still it's pretty goddamn good and if someone really loved AC they could monk dip it too. I don't see why it wouldn't stack. I'm not going to but a person could do that if what they wanted to do was tank. Monk dipped, dex based ecclesithiurge probably beats this for AC but this definitely beats the cleric on hitting back.
2. Your odds of passing Concentration checks generally increase with levels. Even moreso that you don't get access to highest level spells/get new spell levels slower then a pure caster.

Yeah I'm not taking it. The in game description of what concentration checks do doesn't match the implemented gameplay mechanics. I've read up on them on the Owlcat forums now and looked at them in game and I get how it works. It's an ok early game feat that becomes irrelevant later, especially to me who will mainly use my spellstrike with level 1 and 2 spells until quite late when I have the spell slots and feats to use metamagic empower + maximize.

Also, "not the strongest"?
I mean, there are many strong classes in Pathfinder. Kinda a nice balance in unbalance feel to it. And especially pure casters do some things better. Kineticists get some outright broken abilities eventually.
Still, I'd be hard pressed to find a class that is clearly superior to a Sword Saint...

Yeah that was a moronic statement on my part and I'm embarrassed to have said it. I was lead to believe this class is not highly regarded by a video some Russian guy made on the magus where he said disparaging things about it (I forget which Russian RPG youtuber it was, I watch a few). I need to learn to not listen to opinions on this game, only information. Discourse around pathfinder Kingmaker is highly opinionated and rife with polemic. In other words opinions are like assholes: everyone has 'em and they all stink.

I should just test shit for myself before judging it really. Sword Saint is fucking amazing. It's like this class was hand crafted for me to play Lematte in, before I even thought of him. It's destiny. Well it would be if the saint got a pet leopard but you can't have it all.
 

Bloodeyes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
2,946
Here's a support character I'm going to make as a mercenary, mocked up as a level 10 main character respec. Probably loads of mistakes in this build, I made it very quickly. I'll look over it more carefully before I make him for real. No dip for this guy, just a bow and a place on the back line casting debuffs. Screenshot has him with rapid shot and clustered shots. The real build probably won't take that. The bow is just so he has something to do when enemies are too weak to deserve his spells.

1. Necromancy focus + Martial weapons proficiency

3. Greater necromancy focus

5. Point blank shot + (Crusader bonus) Weapon focus ray

7. Precise shot

9. Metamagic - reach spell

10. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray focus

11. Metamagic - empower spell

13. Improved critical ray

15. Spell penetration + (Crusader bonus) Ray specialization

17. Metamagic heighten spell

19. Greater spell penetration

20. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray specialization


udU9pZ0.png


I had the idea today when a Russian youtuber (not the same one I think) said you can crit with enervation. That's just... beautiful.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
Patron
Joined
Jul 22, 2019
Messages
14,849
Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Here's a support character I'm going to make as a mercenary, mocked up as a level 10 main character respec. Probably loads of mistakes in this build, I made it very quickly. I'll look over it more carefully before I make him for real. No dip for this guy, just a bow and a place on the back line casting debuffs. Screenshot has him with rapid shot and clustered shots. The real build probably won't take that. The bow is just so he has something to do when enemies are too weak to deserve his spells.

1. Necromancy focus + Martial weapons proficiency

3. Greater necromancy focus

5. Point blank shot + (Crusader bonus) Weapon focus ray

7. Precise shot

9. Metamagic - reach spell

10. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray focus

11. Metamagic - empower spell

13. Improved critical ray

15. Spell penetration + (Crusader bonus) Ray specialization

17. Metamagic heighten spell

19. Greater spell penetration

20. (Crusader bonus) Greater ray specialization


udU9pZ0.png


I had the idea today when a Russian youtuber (not the same one I think) said you can crit with enervation. That's just... beautiful.

The important thing is Empowering/Maximizing it but yeah there’s no save.
 

_V_

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
116
5) I know it has been asked before, but I don't remember the answer: Is there any alternative to Fencing Grace that could be used with kamas, estoc or elven curved blade? At the moment I don't see a path towards using dex or int (or wis) as damage modifiers without having to switch to single style rapier and/or sacrificing attacks. Duelist looks meh...IMHO
Agile weapons. So I could check the list of weapons in WotR and meta around that.
Slashing Grace and Dervish Dance. Same limitations as Fencing Grace.
Aldori Swordlord uses dex as dmg for duelling swords. (But the class doesn't speak to me.)
3 dips into rogue for Finesse Training.
Mythic Weapon Finesse. (WotR)
Amulet of Agile Fists (I wish more games took some hints from DDO and gave "enchanted handwraps" for the weapon slot.)

So there are options. But a combination of reach+finessable(+agile) seems unlikely. Unless WotR introduces spiked chains.
I've been fooling around with a solo Pummeling Monk lvl 20 in the endless dungeon and that's really fun.

So I've been reading up a little on WotR and if I eschew a mythic path I can advance to lvl 40 in normal classes (if the game actually provides sufficient xp). That means Vivi 16 + Trad Monk 20 + XX 4 is a possiblity :shredder:
 

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